I guess a lot of new drivers begin their career with agency work. Here are a few things to consider when choosing an agency, based on my experience.
Remember that the principle of agencies is that they ‘buy’ you at wholesale and ‘sell’ you at retail (to their clients). The retail end of the market is fairly tough as the agencies are in competition with each other so they make their profit by buying you as cheaply as they can.
I soon learned that many of them will tells you outright lies or, at least, be ‘economical with the truth’. They will rarely volunteer any information other than what is necessary to get you to sign-on-the-line with them.
Promises of work.
Some agencies advertise ‘ghost’ jobs simply to get people on their books. Once you are there they will assure you they have lots of work and are short of drivers. I have yet to encounter an agency that says, “Well, we haven’t much on at the moment”.
A big sign saying, “Drivers urgently needed” doesn’t necessarily mean they have lots of work - possibly they are just looking for a few mugs who don’t know the score.
Hourly rates.
The trick here is to quote you their best rates when they meet you. Maybe they do have a couple of drivers on £■■ an hour but you can bet that when (if) you get your first assignment it will be at less than you were ‘promised’.
Never accept a job without asking what the rate is. I am amazed at how many new drivers do this.
Be aware of ‘holiday pay inclusive’ rates. The law says they have to pay you holiday pay but many include it in the hourly rate (yes, this is legal). So, £10 an hour including holiday pay is actually about £8.92 an hour.
Overtime.
Ask what rate it is paid at and when it applies. Agency ‘A’ may say, “Over 8 hours is paid at time and a third”. Agency ‘B’ may say, “Over 40 hours a week is paid at time and a third”. It sounds much the same but there can be a big difference.
As an example, let’s assume you are on £10 an hour: Work three 13 hour shifts in a week for ‘A’ and you earn £440. Do the same for ‘B’ and you earn £390.
Employment status.
Should you be PAYE, umbrella company, limited company, etc? That depends on your personal circumstances and you should take professional advice. It can make a big difference to your rights and you tax bill. Remember, the person at the agency does NOT give professional advice - he/she will steer you in the direction that most suits the agency.
In summary, be careful and know up-front what you are getting into. The agency I have been with for the last couple of months has given me decent regular work, they pay me fairly well and I get holiday pay over and above my hourly rate. That leaves me happy to do pretty well whatever they ask me to do. I was recently working alongside another agency drive (same job, same shift, etc.) who was on £3.80 an hour less than me. It turned out that his agency was sub-contracting to mine and it was ‘costing him’ nearly 4 quid an hour.
All above is so true, and you need to remember that agencies have no work of there own no matter how many hours they promise if there phone don’t ring yours won’t
OnlyAlan:
I guess a lot of new drivers begin their career with agency work. Here are a few things to consider when choosing an agency, based on my experience.
Remember that the principle of agencies is that they ‘buy’ you at wholesale and ‘sell’ you at retail (to their clients). The retail end of the market is fairly tough as the agencies are in competition with each other so they make their profit by buying you as cheaply as they can.
I soon learned that many of them will tells you outright lies or, at least, be ‘economical with the truth’. They will rarely volunteer any information other than what is necessary to get you to sign-on-the-line with them.
Promises of work.
Some agencies advertise ‘ghost’ jobs simply to get people on their books. Once you are there they will assure you they have lots of work and are short of drivers. I have yet to encounter an agency that says, “Well, we haven’t much on at the moment”.
A big sign saying, “Drivers urgently needed” doesn’t necessarily mean they have lots of work - possibly they are just looking for a few mugs who don’t know the score.
Hourly rates.
The trick here is to quote you their best rates when they meet you. Maybe they do have a couple of drivers on £■■ an hour but you can bet that when (if) you get your first assignment it will be at less than you were ‘promised’.
Never accept a job without asking what the rate is. I am amazed at how many new drivers do this.
Be aware of ‘holiday pay inclusive’ rates. The law says they have to pay you holiday pay but many include it in the hourly rate (yes, this is legal). So, £10 an hour including holiday pay is actually about £8.92 an hour.
Overtime.
Ask what rate it is paid at and when it applies. Agency ‘A’ may say, “Over 8 hours is paid at time and a third”. Agency ‘B’ may say, “Over 40 hours a week is paid at time and a third”. It sounds much the same but there can be a big difference.
As an example, let’s assume you are on £10 an hour: Work three 13 hour shifts in a week for ‘A’ and you earn £440. Do the same for ‘B’ and you earn £390.
Employment status.
Should you be PAYE, umbrella company, limited company, etc? That depends on your personal circumstances and you should take professional advice. It can make a big difference to your rights and you tax bill. Remember, the person at the agency does NOT give professional advice - he/she will steer you in the direction that most suits the agency.
In summary, be careful and know up-front what you are getting into. The agency I have been with for the last couple of months has given me decent regular work, they pay me fairly well and I get holiday pay over and above my hourly rate. That leaves me happy to do pretty well whatever they ask me to do. I was recently working alongside another agency drive (same job, same shift, etc.) who was on £3.80 an hour less than me. It turned out that his agency was sub-contracting to mine and it was ‘costing him’ nearly 4 quid an hour.
Be careful out there.
Hi Alan,
I have had an issue with an agency recently over missing pay, where they failed to pay me my full hours for certain shifts for a haulier, arguing that that particular firm never paid over 10 hours. Please see thread “Any fair agencies in/near Surrey?”
This has really annoyed me and I don’t know what to do about it, as I worked my backside off for those shifts and I don’t know what to do about it.
Are you familiar with this kind of thing happening? Despite my badgering to get an answer by phone and email, I’ve been ignored so have said I wouldn’t take on any more work until it’s resolved. Nothing has been offered but an invitation to collect my P45, which is just great.
I’ve been on PAYE with the agency and pay for all my own training, but I feel I don’t have a leg to stand on.
Any help would be appreciated.
I have had an issue with an agency recently over missing pay, where they failed to pay me my full hours for certain shifts for a haulier, arguing that that particular firm never paid over 10 hours. Please see thread “Any fair agencies in/near Surrey?”
This has really annoyed me and I don’t know what to do about it, as I worked my backside off for those shifts and I don’t know what to do about it.
Are you familiar with this kind of thing happening? Despite my badgering to get an answer by phone and email, I’ve been ignored so have said I wouldn’t take on any more work until it’s resolved. Nothing has been offered but an invitation to collect my P45, which is just great.
I’ve been on PAYE with the agency and pay for all my own training, but I feel I don’t have a leg to stand on.
Any help would be appreciated.
I am not really qualified to give you an answer, sorry. Fortunately, I have never had this happen to me (yet?).
No doubt there are a few (or more) underhand agencies out there, hence me trying to stress the importance of asking the right questions before you take work. Certainly, trying to resolve it by telephone will not help you if they do intend to have you over. It may be worth writing a letter to them demanding what you are owed and sending it ‘signed for’ delivery. If the agency is a franchise operation (like Driver Hire, for instance), you could try writing to the franchisor too. If it is a branch of a large company you could try writing to their head office.
If that gets no result you may well find the amount you are owed doesn’t make it worth the effort it will take to pursue it legally. You may just end-up putting it down to experience.
As for collecting your P45, well I would already have collected mine because I would not want work for them again.
I have had an issue with an agency recently over missing pay, where they failed to pay me my full hours for certain shifts for a haulier, arguing that that particular firm never paid over 10 hours. Please see thread “Any fair agencies in/near Surrey?”
This has really annoyed me and I don’t know what to do about it, as I worked my backside off for those shifts and I don’t know what to do about it.
Are you familiar with this kind of thing happening? Despite my badgering to get an answer by phone and email, I’ve been ignored so have said I wouldn’t take on any more work until it’s resolved. Nothing has been offered but an invitation to collect my P45, which is just great.
I’ve been on PAYE with the agency and pay for all my own training, but I feel I don’t have a leg to stand on.
Any help would be appreciated.
I am not really qualified to give you an answer, sorry. Fortunately, I have never had this happen to me (yet?).
No doubt there are a few (or more) underhand agencies out there, hence me trying to stress the importance of asking the right questions before you take work. Certainly, trying to resolve it by telephone will not help you if they do intend to have you over. It may be worth writing a letter to them demanding what you are owed and sending it ‘signed for’ delivery. If the agency is a franchise operation (like Driver Hire, for instance), you could try writing to the franchisor too. If it is a branch of a large company you could try writing to their head office.
If that gets no result you may well find the amount you are owed doesn’t make it worth the effort it will take to pursue it legally. You may just end-up putting it down to experience.
As for collecting your P45, well I would already have collected mine because I would not want work for them again.
I think I’m probably going to have to put my own situation down to experience, as despite trying to push politely for a proper detailed explanation I was just continually ignored. You’re certainly right about asking the right questions before accepting work. Too many of us are afraid to turn anything down -and the agencies know that only too well unfortunately.
I’m still seeking an alternative agency near the Surrey area, but no one has been prepared to come forward on this forum with good advice as yet.
If anyone out there does know of any agencies who adopt a fair work practice, I’d love to hear from them.
OnlyAlan:
I guess a lot of new drivers begin their career with agency work. Here are a few things to consider when choosing an agency, based on my experience.
Remember that the principle of agencies is that they ‘buy’ you at wholesale and ‘sell’ you at retail (to their clients). The retail end of the market is fairly tough as the agencies are in competition with each other so they make their profit by buying you as cheaply as they can.
I soon learned that many of them will tells you outright lies or, at least, be ‘economical with the truth’. They will rarely volunteer any information other than what is necessary to get you to sign-on-the-line with them.
Promises of work. All agencies advertise ‘ghost’ jobs simply to get people on their books. Once you are there they will assure you they have lots of work and are short of drivers. I have yet to encounter an agency that says, “Well, we haven’t much on at the moment”.
A big sign saying, “Drivers urgently needed” doesn’t necessarily mean they have lots of work - possibly they are just looking for a few mugs who don’t know the score.
Hourly rates.
The trick here is to quote you their best rates when they meet you. Maybe they do have a couple of drivers on £■■ an hour but you can bet that when (if) you get your first assignment it will be at less than you were ‘promised’.
Never accept a job without asking what the rate is. I am amazed at how many new drivers do this.
Be aware of ‘holiday pay inclusive’ rates. The law says they have to pay you holiday pay but many include it in the hourly rate (yes, this is legal). So, £10 an hour including holiday pay is actually about £8.92 an hour.
Overtime.
Ask what rate it is paid at and when it applies. Agency ‘A’ may say, “Over 8 hours is paid at time and a third”. Agency ‘B’ may say, “Over 40 hours a week is paid at time and a third”. It sounds much the same but there can be a big difference.
As an example, let’s assume you are on £10 an hour: Work three 13 hour shifts in a week for ‘A’ and you earn £440. Do the same for ‘B’ and you earn £390.
Employment status.
Should you be PAYE, umbrella company, limited company, etc? That depends on your personal circumstances and you should take professional advice. It can make a big difference to your rights and you tax bill. Remember, the person at the agency does NOT give professional advice - he/she will steer you in the direction that most suits the agency.
In summary, be careful and know up-front what you are getting into. The agency I have been with for the last couple of months has given me decent regular work, they pay me fairly well and I get holiday pay over and above my hourly rate. That leaves me happy to do pretty well whatever they ask me to do. I was recently working alongside another agency drive (same job, same shift, etc.) who was on £3.80 an hour less than me. It turned out that his agency was sub-contracting to mine and it was ‘costing him’ nearly 4 quid an hour.
Good advice alan, as yesterday went to sign with another agy done all the usual tests passed ok, then this form at the end so queried it and said thats an umbrella i wont sign that, i will just go on paye so she said you have to, can you get manager i said she went on that he on phone busy so out the door i went but stupidly left all the paperwork, they obviously submitted my details as all day today been getting calls and emails from this umbrella firm thanks for highlighting that theyre lower than slugs al
I work through agencies using my limited company. Wanted to add my thoughts on umbrella/payment companies.
One agency i work through is simple, i work invoice them x hours at y rate and they pay me. Simple.
Another un named agency (how i would love to name and shame them). You have to use a payment agency due to employment law they will want 5%. PAYE is an average of 16%. No umbrella no work. And crap rates at that. quote “what do u mean u wont travel 40 miles to work for £7.50 class 2 - are you not serious about working”
Another agency. LTD thats fine but we have to raise your invoice for u at a cost of 2%. They are also are good at shafting you on rates to gain another £20 per week for them.
What i am saying is:
1 - calculate your net rate if you have to work through the umbrella schemes. It makes a difference.
2 - Work for agencies that pay you correctly on time, too many drivers put up with being taken advantage of. Agencies cannot earn money without drivers, if we all avoided the slave traders who go out of there way to rip u off the work would find its way to the goodish guys (dont believe there is such a thing as a good agency just some that are better than others).
Anyone who wants advice on agencies in derby/notts area PM me happy to share experiences, as I believe there are certain agencies who should be avoided.
calsdad:
Work for agencies that pay you correctly on time, too many drivers put up with being taken advantage of. Agencies cannot earn money without drivers, if we all avoided the slave traders who go out of there way to rip u off the work would find its way to the goodish guys (dont believe there is such a thing as a good agency just some that are better than others).
Unfortunately, most of us have fallen into the trap of being so keen to get almost any work as new drivers. We don’t ask the right questions or recognise the clever ways they have of not answering them directly. So many agencies are very adapt at only saying what they want us to hear and believe. Usually all hype and very little substance. Too often this only comes to light in the first pay-packet.
In my opinion, they are nothing but parasites. They produce nothing but take as many cuts as they can get, invariably at our expense. If we had no agencies, would the transport world collapse? I don’t think so. Would more drivers have permanent jobs? Almost certainly.
Parasite: One who eats at another man’s table and repays him in flattery".
calsdad:
I work through agencies using my limited company. Wanted to add my thoughts on umbrella/payment companies.
One agency i work through is simple, i work invoice them x hours at y rate and they pay me. Simple.
Another un named agency (how i would love to name and shame them). You have to use a payment agency due to employment law they will want 5%. PAYE is an average of 16%. No umbrella no work. And crap rates at that. quote “what do u mean u wont travel 40 miles to work for £7.50 class 2 - are you not serious about working”
Another agency. LTD thats fine but we have to raise your invoice for u at a cost of 2%. They are also are good at shafting you on rates to gain another £20 per week for them.
What i am saying is:
1 - calculate your net rate if you have to work through the umbrella schemes. It makes a difference.
2 - Work for agencies that pay you correctly on time, too many drivers put up with being taken advantage of. Agencies cannot earn money without drivers, if we all avoided the slave traders who go out of there way to rip u off the work would find its way to the goodish guys (dont believe there is such a thing as a good agency just some that are better than others).
Anyone who wants advice on agencies in derby/notts area PM me happy to share experiences, as I believe there are certain agencies who should be avoided.
Sorry pal buy you are being shafted in typical agency fashion. You are a self employed limited company ffs, you should be dictating terms to them and charging them 10% for taking the invoice raising from you.
Hi Alan,
I have had an issue with an agency recently over missing pay, where they failed to pay me my full hours for certain shifts for a haulier, arguing that that particular firm never paid over 10 hours. Please see thread “Any fair agencies in/near Surrey?”
This has really annoyed me and I don’t know what to do about it, as I worked my backside off for those shifts and I don’t know what to do about it.
Are you familiar with this kind of thing happening? Despite my badgering to get an answer by phone and email, I’ve been ignored so have said I wouldn’t take on any more work until it’s resolved. Nothing has been offered but an invitation to collect my P45, which is just great.
I’ve been on PAYE with the agency and pay for all my own training, but I feel I don’t have a leg to stand on.
Any help would be appreciated.
By law, any assignment offered to the worker must be in writing stating the amount of pay the worker can expect to receive along with hours etc, basically the details of the job and get this, it should be BEFORE the job…
Try writing to the REC (recruitment and employment confederation) first of all raising your concerns and complaints and if that does not work then speak to the small claims court. They have to pay you for all hours worked regardless of their personal agreements with clients which they fail to inform you of before you commence the assignment.
Truckbling:
By law, any assignment offered to the worker must be in writing stating the amount of pay the worker can expect to receive along with hours etc, basically the details of the job and get this, it should be BEFORE the job.
In my experience, this is usually covered in the booklet given out to new drivers by agencies. It may be called ‘Our Drivers’ Handbook’, or some such nonsense. These are cleverly written ‘catch-all’ documents that will ensure the agency complies with the law in respect of information you should get.
My advice (which I now follow) is not to sign anything until you have had the chance to read and understand all agreements, rules, etc IN YOUR OWN TIME. Not in their office but back at home. If the agency will not let you do this this it is because they are hiding something - and most of them are. This is about your job, your income and your life so take it seriously (FFS, I am starting to sound like my Dad).
It will save you having to add to the long list of “The agency said this but actually did this” posts on this forum.
calsdad:
I work through agencies using my limited company. Wanted to add my thoughts on umbrella/payment companies.
One agency i work through is simple, i work invoice them x hours at y rate and they pay me. Simple.
Another un named agency (how i would love to name and shame them). You have to use a payment agency due to employment law they will want 5%. PAYE is an average of 16%. No umbrella no work. And crap rates at that. quote “what do u mean u wont travel 40 miles to work for £7.50 class 2 - are you not serious about working”
Another agency. LTD thats fine but we have to raise your invoice for u at a cost of 2%. They are also are good at shafting you on rates to gain another £20 per week for them.
What i am saying is:
1 - calculate your net rate if you have to work through the umbrella schemes. It makes a difference.
2 - Work for agencies that pay you correctly on time, too many drivers put up with being taken advantage of. Agencies cannot earn money without drivers, if we all avoided the slave traders who go out of there way to rip u off the work would find its way to the goodish guys (dont believe there is such a thing as a good agency just some that are better than others).
Anyone who wants advice on agencies in derby/notts area PM me happy to share experiences, as I believe there are certain agencies who should be avoided.
so you come here posting “advice” to agency newbies yet openly admit how you happily let the agencies have your pants down by charging you 2% to raise invoices and then deduct £20 per week arguing over rates, but then you say that agency drivers should contact you for more of your wonderful wisdom on how not to be taken advantage of! are you sure youre not one of the newbies yourself as it sounds like it from here.
calsdad:
I work through agencies using my limited company. Wanted to add my thoughts on umbrella/payment companies.
One agency i work through is simple, i work invoice them x hours at y rate and they pay me. Simple.
Another un named agency (how i would love to name and shame them). You have to use a payment agency due to employment law they will want 5%. PAYE is an average of 16%. No umbrella no work. And crap rates at that. quote “what do u mean u wont travel 40 miles to work for £7.50 class 2 - are you not serious about working”
Another agency. LTD thats fine but we have to raise your invoice for u at a cost of 2%. They are also are good at shafting you on rates to gain another £20 per week for them.
What i am saying is:
1 - calculate your net rate if you have to work through the umbrella schemes. It makes a difference.
2 - Work for agencies that pay you correctly on time, too many drivers put up with being taken advantage of. Agencies cannot earn money without drivers, if we all avoided the slave traders who go out of there way to rip u off the work would find its way to the goodish guys (dont believe there is such a thing as a good agency just some that are better than others).
Anyone who wants advice on agencies in derby/notts area PM me happy to share experiences, as I believe there are certain agencies who should be avoided.
so you come here posting “advice” to agency newbies yet openly admit how you happily let the agencies have your pants down by charging you 2% to raise invoices and then deduct £20 per week arguing over rates, but then you say that agency drivers should contact you for more of your wonderful wisdom on how not to be taken advantage of! are you sure youre not one of the newbies yourself as it sounds like it from here.
I cannot see where catsdad says he does work through agencies that “have his pants down”. He talks about one One agency i work through is simple, i work invoice them x hours at y rate and they pay me. Simple… He then mentions how other agencies operate, but not that he works with them.
If I am wrong and he has actually worked through these ‘other’ agencies his knowledge on how they operate will be even better. Many of us have learned the agency tricks to our expense. All credit to him for coming on here and sharing his experiences.
Yes 6 months ago was a newbie and got caught with my pants down in the first few weeks. Cant see what is wrong with admiting it and not wanting others to get caught in the same way. Suppose you always get some know it all who finds sharing annoying. Sort of wonder wtf you would come on this type of thread for. Trolls are every where i suppose.
Sometime the problem is you have to let the agency dictate a bit to get the work. Constantly come up against the two years experience problem so have to play the game to work. Would love to have two years experience and there be enough work for me to dictate but short of time travel am going to have to ■■■■ it for a bit yet.
Sitting back a bit at the moment as just passed C+E, preparing myself for the weeks no experience no work conversations. No doubt they will soon forget it when they get busy again.
