dar1976:
I have just looked online at my driving record and noted that they have finally updated my license. I don’t have it in my hand yet so this may change…However…
I passed my CE before Christmas and I got a fresh license with this on.
I passed my D in March and have been given a full D (Not Auto).
However DE and D1 still remain provisional
So am I correct that I can have D automatically upgraded to DE with my full CE already in place. And can I get D1 automatically added as a full category. Is it likely they have ballsed up or have the rules changed.
You should have been granted full D1+E and D+E.
Hopefully what follows can be referred to as a FAQ. I apologise for the complexity - I have done my best to explain a very complex piece of legislation in the simplest possible terms. I stress that this is not a definitive statement of the law: only the courts can rule on the true meaning of legislation and I may have introduced inaccuracy as I explain the law.
The relevant sections for dar1976 are in italics.
The law is found in Regulation 45 of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999 (SI 1999/2864), which has to be read in conjunction with the tables in Schedule 9.
The regulation covers four main scenarios.
Bus and trailer entitlements for those who hold bus entitlement and lorry and trailer entitlement (when the bus and lorry and trailer tests entitlements are both manual or both automatic)
Regulation 45(1) applies to drivers who have passed:
- a C+E or C1+E test, and
- a D or D1 test
In this case, you go to Table A in Schedule 9. You look in column (1) and find the row for D or D1, as appropriate. If you have passed C+E you read what that row says in column (2). If you have passed C1+E, you read what that row says in column (3). Whatever you read is your upgrade full entitlement - it’s D+E for those who have passed C+E and D, and D1+E in all other cases.
Regulation 45(2) states that the upgrade entitlement is automatic only if both of the tests used to qualify for it were taken on automatic transmission vehicles.
dar1976 - your C+E pass was manual. If your D pass was manual, you should tell DVLA:
I have passed practical tests for both C+E and D in manual transmission vehicles. Under Regulation 45(1) of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999 (SI 1999/2864), I am deemed competent to drive vehicles in category D+E. Please reissue my licence to show full D+E entitlement valid from the latter of these two tests, which was my category D test on ■■ March 2012
Entitlements when a driver has passed one or more manual tests in categories C or D, and additionally has passed at least one automatic test in categories C or D
This is Regulation 45(3) - it looks a lot more complex, but isn’t.
Go to Table B in Schedule 9. You look in column (1) and find your automatic test pass. Read along that row - you get manual entitlements for every category where you have passed the manual test at the top of the column. Any upgrade entitlements marked (a) are automatic only (Regulation 45(7)).
If you have passed more than one automatic test, repeat this process for every automatic test.
The scenario that most likely applies to dar1976 is a D test in an automatic bus, having already passed C and C+E in manual vehicles.
Find the D row in column 1. Reading across, the C part of that row says “D” and the C+E part of that row says “D & D+E”. The correct entitlements are therefore C, C+E, D and D+E - all manual. There’s no point in complicating the approach to the DVLA with mention of the C pass - manual C+E and automatic D are all you need to mention to DVLA to get everything you’re entitled to, so this should do it:
I have passed practical tests for C+E in a manual transmission vehicle and D in an automatic transmission vehicle. Under Regulation 45(3) of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999 (SI 1999/2864), I am deemed competent to drive manual transmission vehicles in categories D and D+E. Please reissue my licence to show full D+E entitlement valid from the latter of these two tests, which was my category D test on ■■ March 2012
Of course, this works equally well for drivers who have passed manual C and automatic D tests, who get manual category D entitlement.
Usually the rule is ‘lorry entitlements upgrade bus entitlements, but bus entitlements don’t upgrade lorry entitlements’. However, this is not always true - as can be seen in the table, automatic C plus manual D gives manual C entitlement.
Upgrade of B (automatic) entitlement to B manual by a manual test on B+E, C or D
Regulation 45(10) states that a driver holding B (automatic only) entitlement who takes a manual test on B+E, C or D is deemed competent to drive category B manual vehicles.
Upgrade of B+E (automatic) entitlement to B+E manual by a manual test on C or D
Regulation 45(8) states that a driver holding B+E (automatic only) entitlement who takes a manual test on C or D is deemed competent to drive category B+E manual vehicles.
Upgrades of obsolete licence types and the entitlement to drive minibuses “not for hire and reward” on a category B licence
The remainder of the regulation covers various scenarios relating to obsolete licence types and minibuses being driven on category B licences:
- Regulation 45(4) - former PSV Class 4A licence holders passing a manual C test are deemed competent to drive former PSV Class 4 vehicles - i.e. the automatic only restriction is removed from their D1 and D (not more than 5.5 metres) entitlements
- Regulation 45(5) - the category B entitlement to drive minibuses under a section 19 permit or not for hire and reward is affected be regulations 45(1) or (3) as if it was D or D+E entitlement, but only when driving “not for hire and reward”. This a convoluted way of saying that lorry test passes remove one or both of the category B minibus vehicle limits (not more than 3.5t MAM and not towing a trailer). A C or C1 test removes the MAM limit, effectively granting D1 (not for hire and reward). A C+E or C1+E test removes the towing restriction, effectively granting D1+E (not for hire and reward). These upgrades will not be shown on the licence.
- Regulation 45(6) - entitlements gained under regulations 45(1) or (3) using the C+E (drawbar only) entitlements of former HGV Class 2 and 3 drivers are limited to drawbar only. This appears to grant some very strange entitlements: an HGV Class 3 driver who has passed a D1 (automatic) test appears to get D1+E (drawbar only, automatic only) - I’m not sure what use that particular entitlement would be!
- Regulation 45(9) - pre-1997 automatic only car licence holders passing a manual B, B+E, C or D test are deemed competent to drive the entire suite of pre-1997 car test entitlements with manual transmission - i.e. they get manual entitlement to B, B+E, C1, C1+E (not more than 8.25t), D1 (not for hire or reward) and D1+E (not for hire or reward)
B+E after passing a C+E, C1+E, D+E or D1+E test?
I am almost certain that any driver passing a C+E, C1+E, D+E or D1+E test is deemed competent to drive B+E, but I can’t find the legal authority for this! It’s not in the 1999 Statutory Instrument to my reading, which are the primary regulations for driving licences. I have searched right through a consolidated version of the SI with all the subsequent amendments embodied - the public version on legislation.gov.uk that I linked to earlier doesn’t have the amendments included.
No changes in this area in January 2013
The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 (SI 2012/977) were made on 27 March 2012 to implement the Third Driving Licence Directive changes from 19 January 2013. The changes to Regulation 45 of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999 (SI 1999/2864) are minor - they merely protect the entitlement of existing B+E holders to use trailers with a MAM of more than 3.5t, existing D1 and D1+E holders to use vehicles longer than 8 metres and deal with the recasting of the definition of category B1.
I hope someone publishes a public version of the 1999 SI with these changes incorporated; legislation.gov.uk will only carry the original texts. It is much easier to read a consolidated text than an original text and a bunch of amendments that you have to find and incorporate yourself.
Edit: fixed one incorrect link