hello if i have a Operators Licence for 1 vehicle can i buy an artic unit and just run traction for other companies using their trailers or do i need to add a trailer to licence
I believe so.
I enquired with the TC in Leeds about a similar thing (running extra trailers for a customer that my Olicence doesn’t have authorisation for) and was told:
“If the customer owns the trailer(s) or you are hiring the trailer(s) from the customer this would be counted as traction only work and you would not need to make changes to your operator licence”.
They did finish it off with it’s just the view of their department and not to be used as strict interpretation of the law…
… so I’ll say the same, that’s just my view. Don’t take it as gospel.
my thinking was im not using my Operators Licence at the moment because the job i had has finished so sold truck but wouldnt mind a go with an artic unit on traction only
If you dont own a trailer, but pull a trailer you still need authorisation for said trailer on your license.
You will also be responsible for its road worthiness and the load should the dvsa pull you.
Concretejim:
If you dont own a trailer, but pull a trailer you still need authorisation for said trailer on your license.You will also be responsible for its road worthiness and the load should the dvsa pull you.
I believe this is correct, at one point if you were doing ferry trailers in the uk you needed an international licence, this was later relaxed. As it’s easy I would apply for one unit and two trailers even if you don’t need them
Glenntran:
hello if i have a Operators Licence for 1 vehicle can i buy an artic unit and just run traction for other companies using their trailers or do i need to add a trailer to licence
No. You need to have a minimum of a 1 trailer licence.
I kept 1 on on traction to be safe, there’s no more outlay, plus even if it’s a ferry trailer your still responsible for it’s condition if it’s behind your unit anyway.
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There are loads of traction only operators with no trailers on their licence.
I’m on the fence. Ouch.
But, regarding the on/off the licence thing it seems to me to be an admin issue. The O Licence covers authority to use x amount of vehicles/trailers from your operating centre as well as financial standing and good repute etc.
Now, if you’re operating more than permitted from the O centre you’re in breach. However, if you’re traction only and collect/return your trailer from the customers location; and if the customer is responsible for the upkeep of the trailer (financial standing); then is it a breach in anything other than a technicality (good repute)?
Still on the fence.
thanks for advice i will add a trailer to be sure 
el_presidente:
I’m on the fence. Ouch.But, regarding the on/off the licence thing it seems to me to be an admin issue. The O Licence covers authority to use x amount of vehicles/trailers from your operating centre as well as financial standing and good repute etc.
Now, if you’re operating more than permitted from the O centre you’re in breach. However, if you’re traction only and collect/return your trailer from the customers location; and if the customer is responsible for the upkeep of the trailer (financial standing); then is it a breach in anything other than a technicality (good repute)?
Still on the fence.
It’s a breach. If it’s behind your unit you’re responsible for its condition, regardless who pays the maintenance bill. If for example you have a 1 and 1 licence, you work drops off so you leave your trailer in the yard and pull for RoRo firm, you’re in breach. You’d need a 1 and 2 licence minimum. No grey area.
Goaty:
el_presidente:
I’m on the fence. Ouch.But, regarding the on/off the licence thing it seems to me to be an admin issue. The O Licence covers authority to use x amount of vehicles/trailers from your operating centre as well as financial standing and good repute etc.
Now, if you’re operating more than permitted from the O centre you’re in breach. However, if you’re traction only and collect/return your trailer from the customers location; and if the customer is responsible for the upkeep of the trailer (financial standing); then is it a breach in anything other than a technicality (good repute)?
Still on the fence.
It’s a breach. If it’s behind your unit you’re responsible for its condition, regardless who pays the maintenance bill. If for example you have a 1 and 1 licence, you work drops off so you leave your trailer in the yard and pull for RoRo firm, you’re in breach. You’d need a 1 and 2 licence minimum. No grey area.
Totally get that the trailer needs to be roadworthy and if it isn’t it’s the driver who’ll cop it in the neck for anything that should be obvious on your daily inspection. But you can’t be responsible for everything as the operator, surely? Loaded brake tests for example - yes you need to make necessary enquiries with who you’re hauling for that their maintence programme is sufficient and robust - but if you’re doing trailer swaps all week, are we saying that as the operator pulling the trailer, you will also be held to account for such deficiencies? That to me is certainly a grey area.
I think the TC would expect some due diligence onn your part; but surely the lions share of responsibility will rest with the owner of said trailer (as i said - stuff you should find on your walk arounds are the exception).
el_presidente:
Goaty:
el_presidente:
I’m on the fence. Ouch.But, regarding the on/off the licence thing it seems to me to be an admin issue. The O Licence covers authority to use x amount of vehicles/trailers from your operating centre as well as financial standing and good repute etc.
Now, if you’re operating more than permitted from the O centre you’re in breach. However, if you’re traction only and collect/return your trailer from the customers location; and if the customer is responsible for the upkeep of the trailer (financial standing); then is it a breach in anything other than a technicality (good repute)?
Still on the fence.
It’s a breach. If it’s behind your unit you’re responsible for its condition, regardless who pays the maintenance bill. If for example you have a 1 and 1 licence, you work drops off so you leave your trailer in the yard and pull for RoRo firm, you’re in breach. You’d need a 1 and 2 licence minimum. No grey area.
Totally get that the trailer needs to be roadworthy and if it isn’t it’s the driver who’ll cop it in the neck for anything that should be obvious on your daily inspection. But you can’t be responsible for everything as the operator, surely? Loaded brake tests for example - yes you need to make necessary enquiries with who you’re hauling for that their maintence programme is sufficient and robust - but if you’re doing trailer swaps all week, are we saying that as the operator pulling the trailer, you will also be held to account for such deficiencies? That to me is certainly a grey area.
I think the TC would expect some due diligence onn your part; but surely the lions share of responsibility will rest with the owner of said trailer (as i said - stuff you should find on your walk arounds are the exception).
And I think in your example, if you take your trialer off your licence and leave it parked up then you will still be ok with a 1+1.
el_presidente:
Goaty:
el_presidente:
I’m on the fence. Ouch.But, regarding the on/off the licence thing it seems to me to be an admin issue. The O Licence covers authority to use x amount of vehicles/trailers from your operating centre as well as financial standing and good repute etc.
Now, if you’re operating more than permitted from the O centre you’re in breach. However, if you’re traction only and collect/return your trailer from the customers location; and if the customer is responsible for the upkeep of the trailer (financial standing); then is it a breach in anything other than a technicality (good repute)?
Still on the fence.
It’s a breach. If it’s behind your unit you’re responsible for its condition, regardless who pays the maintenance bill. If for example you have a 1 and 1 licence, you work drops off so you leave your trailer in the yard and pull for RoRo firm, you’re in breach. You’d need a 1 and 2 licence minimum. No grey area.
Totally get that the trailer needs to be roadworthy and if it isn’t it’s the driver who’ll cop it in the neck for anything that should be obvious on your daily inspection. But you can’t be responsible for everything as the operator, surely? Loaded brake tests for example - yes you need to make necessary enquiries with who you’re hauling for that their maintence programme is sufficient and robust - but if you’re doing trailer swaps all week, are we saying that as the operator pulling the trailer, you will also be held to account for such deficiencies? That to me is certainly a grey area.
I think the TC would expect some due diligence onn your part; but surely the lions share of responsibility will rest with the owner of said trailer (as i said - stuff you should find on your walk arounds are the exception).
No grey area atall, its as black and white as goaty says.
If its behind your unit, your responsible. End of. So a pg9 on a ferry trailer goes against you and your ocrs score.
In the dvsa guide for roadworthiness there is a few paragraphs with ferry trailers as an example.
The same as hiring a trailer, if you are pulling it, you are ultimately responsible that its up to scratch. Just the same as you are your unit.
Its that simple.
Cheers Jim, very useful.
With respect of hired trailers or those owned by others, what is practical in terms of ensuring 6 weekly checks have been completed? Especially in the scenario of daily swaps?
el_presidente:
Cheers Jim, very useful.With respect of hired trailers or those owned by others, what is practical in terms of ensuring 6 weekly checks have been completed? Especially in the scenario of daily swaps?
If i was hiring a trailer, id have it inspected by my maintenance provider idealy on the first day of hire.
If your doing trailer swaps all the time, maybe either assurance from them that trailers are being inspected and maintained, copys of maintenance contracts, inspection sheets etc.
Id also defect every trailer, and give them a copy for there records aswel as you keeping one.
el_presidente:
el_presidente:
Goaty:
el_presidente:
I’m on the fence. Ouch.But, regarding the on/off the licence thing it seems to me to be an admin issue. The O Licence covers authority to use x amount of vehicles/trailers from your operating centre as well as financial standing and good repute etc.
Now, if you’re operating more than permitted from the O centre you’re in breach. However, if you’re traction only and collect/return your trailer from the customers location; and if the customer is responsible for the upkeep of the trailer (financial standing); then is it a breach in anything other than a technicality (good repute)?
Still on the fence.
It’s a breach. If it’s behind your unit you’re responsible for its condition, regardless who pays the maintenance bill. If for example you have a 1 and 1 licence, you work drops off so you leave your trailer in the yard and pull for RoRo firm, you’re in breach. You’d need a 1 and 2 licence minimum. No grey area.
Totally get that the trailer needs to be roadworthy and if it isn’t it’s the driver who’ll cop it in the neck for anything that should be obvious on your daily inspection. But you can’t be responsible for everything as the operator, surely? Loaded brake tests for example - yes you need to make necessary enquiries with who you’re hauling for that their maintence programme is sufficient and robust - but if you’re doing trailer swaps all week, are we saying that as the operator pulling the trailer, you will also be held to account for such deficiencies? That to me is certainly a grey area.
I think the TC would expect some due diligence onn your part; but surely the lions share of responsibility will rest with the owner of said trailer (as i said - stuff you should find on your walk arounds are the exception).
And I think in your example, if you take your trialer off your licence and leave it parked up then you will still be ok with a 1+1.
A friend of mine spot hires any trailers he needs from his wife. She has a “trailer hire” business. 
6 weekly checks are as much use as an MOT certificate, it was ok when the certificate was signed