Throwing The Towel In

Case Closed!!!

Could you not soldier on with the two good drivers and yourself and downsize??

Not worth the hassle maybe??!!![emoji848]

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Big Truck:
Not worth the hassle maybe??!!!

Got it in one!!!

Steve H:

Big Truck:
Not worth the hassle maybe??!!!

Got it in one!!!

[emoji106][emoji17][emoji52]

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You don’t say what sort of track record you have with DVSA/ Traffic area.
If you don’t have a PI pending, and your track with DVSA is not to bad, you should be able to bow out quietly.
Even if the Commissioner does want a word, then as long as you can demonstrate that you issued warnings and acknowledged any problems and tried to sort them, you should be ok. Anyway, if you intend a new life on the "outside"away from transport, why worry.
Well done to you for getting out while you can, paying your dues , and moving on. Pity more people aren’t as honest.

Old John:
You don’t say what sort of track record you have with DVSA/ Traffic area.
If you don’t have a PI pending, and your track with DVSA is not to bad, you should be able to bow out quietly.
Even if the Commissioner does want a word, then as long as you can demonstrate that you issued warnings and acknowledged any problems and tried to sort them, you should be ok. Anyway, if you intend a new life on the "outside"away from transport, why worry.
Well done to you for getting out while you can, paying your dues , and moving on. Pity more people aren’t as honest.

John, you make very valid points.

We are Green / Green OCRS and do not have a particularly bad record with the DVSA. I would say we have a rather good relationship with them and find most of their representatives to be helpful in providing advice and education to operator / driver alike.

I have plenty of evidence to submit with regards warnings/meetings/issues resolved and acknowledged so I’m not to worried on that count. I am more concerned with preserving my repute & qualification going forward “In Case” one day I do have to return whether by choice or forcibly.

Sadly there are a lot of contemptible individuals involved in the transport industry, you really do not have to look very far to find them!!!

My only experience of something vaguely similar to this was when I had to get a new licence when changing from sole trader to limited company, with more capacity on the new licence. As it happened the sole trader licence managed to go to red on maintenance because of a mess up by my contractor just before I applied. Nothing was mentioned and I never had any questions when I surrendered that licence. Kept the new one on green /green so far, touch wood :smiley:

I would have thought that if you did everything in the correct order ie removed the trucks from your O licence first, which you can do in an instant online, then surrendered your O licence, then why would they bother with you ? Presumably the business will still exist for some time after that anyway whilst you dispose of you trucks and whatever else. Hopefully DVSA have bigger fish to fry than investigating a problem free company that’s ceasing operations in the proper manner.

I have read similar about PI, but mainly because people who were on a hiding to nothing were attempting to confuse.

Close the company down, sell it to the wife, daughter, dog etc and act as TM for them.

Sounds like small things to throw the towel in for. None of which can’t be overcome without good communication or disiplining. Most folk would throw in the towel because they weren’t making money or were busy fools.

As an operator you need to be able to show that you have procedures in place to deal with these things. Once procedures are in place then it should sort itself out.
Tell drivers to show at least 15 mins at start of shift for vehicle checks before leaving yard.
Ensure daily defect reports / vehicle check sheets are filled out.
Drivers will leave yard with lights out if there is no facility for fixing them before they leave. They probably think that they are doing you a favour to get the job done. Are driver allowed to fix lights (some place forbid this nowadays), Is there a workshop on site to fix lights before they leave.
Analyse tacho promptly and get drivers to sign for any infringements, retrain if necessary or discipline if it doesn’t improve. Some infringements are entry mistakes or forgetfulness. Consistent infringements are a problem.

threewheels:
Sounds like small things to throw the towel in for. None of which can’t be overcome without good communication or disiplining. Most folk would throw in the towel because they weren’t making money or were busy fools.

As an operator you need to be able to show that you have procedures in place to deal with these things. Once procedures are in place then it should sort itself out.
Tell drivers to show at least 15 mins at start of shift for vehicle checks before leaving yard.
Ensure daily defect reports / vehicle check sheets are filled out.
Drivers will leave yard with lights out if there is no facility for fixing them before they leave. They probably think that they are doing you a favour to get the job done. Are driver allowed to fix lights (some place forbid this nowadays), Is there a workshop on site to fix lights before they leave.
Analyse tacho promptly and get drivers to sign for any infringements, retrain if necessary or discipline if it doesn’t improve. Some infringements are entry mistakes or forgetfulness. Consistent infringements are a problem.

Whilst I fully appreciate your points three wheels let me pitch it to you like this :

Drive A leaves the yard with no stop lights operational and is hit from behind by a member of the public who subsequently has a life changing or fatal injury. Could you live with yourself after that because Driver A is too bone idle to check his stop lights?

Driver B drives for 7 hours without a break and wipes out a pedestrian on a crossing. What is the first thing the police & DVSA will look at?

It’s all well and good saying that they are minor things, and whilst the above hasn’t happened to me (yet) i’m no longer prepared to take that chance. I agree, on there own they are minor things. Together, all the time, constantly, day in day out, they are not minor things. It is down right laziness or incompetence.

If you believe that category C/CE licence holder cannot get to grips with basic EU Hours legislation, cannot turn up on time to be bothered to check the vehicle is roadworthy, thinks its acceptable to cause monumental damage to vehicles, turns up in tracksuit bottoms and trainers when a uniform is provided, and that you would stand for that as a “minor” violation, then I doff my cap to you Sir.

Tachograph analysis? You are joking right? Company policy is a 7 day download, I.e every Friday before leaving the yard for home. It is a procedure that takes 30 seconds per card, as i’m sure you are aware. Nope. No time for that, mad dash to get home as I must finish at 18:00 hours on the dot, without fail. Driving for nearly 8 hours without a break isn’t forgetful. It’s a lethal combination of Dangerous & Incompetent.

As for leaving the yard with lights out - I have a 4 bay 24 -7 workshop manned with CV Technicians who do outside maintenance for other operators, yet vehicles specified on my licence which are my responsibility are rolling round with lights out and knackered tires because no one can spend 10 minutes having a quick look over it before leaving the site.

I have tried having meetings with them, writing to them, Christ I even put in a bonus scheme for correct paperwork submission and tachograph card downloaded. Not even a flicker of interest.

I am fully aware of the procedures that should be in place, and I act as an external TM for another business who are absolutely spot on. No issues with defect reporting, people turning up looking like Wurzel Gummidge, leaving the yard with bits smashed off.

I used to drive before i started on my own. I am by no means perfect, never was, but I never left the yard with bits broken off or lights not working. It was just a non starter for me. I also didn’t drive for 8 hours without so much as a whiff of a break.

Just to sum up, I have recently had one driver “lose” his tachograph card there were that many infringements recorded. It was cheaper for him to obtain a replacement card than risk the amount of fixed penalties for historic offences if stopped. :imp: :imp:

These are not practices that I want my name anywhere near thank you very much!!! :smiley: :smiley:

Sackthe fools and start again.sounds like you had a passion they are ruining .what area are you in ?

Steve.

It has to be said that not every driver has a problem with basic compliance.

Myself for example, looks at it like this…

I passed my original HGV 2 in 1991, with my HGV1 in 1997, at a total cost of around £2k. A lot of money then. I am very guarded when it come to my licence, and I do everything by the book, religiously. Thats why I have a clean licence. I am also mindful of the guy/company that employs me, and adopt the same stance.

Now. If I have a problem with the vehicle, I am old school, and if it is minor I will try and fix it myself before I leave the yard. (Bulbs washers etc.) If it is something more probing, and I work for a big outfit that has it’s own workshop on site, I will have it sorted before I leave. I don’t give 2 monkeys if I have a TM screaming at me that the delivery will be late, my licence and theirs is more important.

In the case of my current boss, because we only have 3 motors, and he lives around 15 miles away, I will text him the problem, then I have an electronic defect if you like, and have covered my arse. If he decides to have it done, then fair enough, but if I get a message back to say I will sort it later, and providing it isn’t life threatening, major or likely to harm someone, then I will do the job to the best of my ability, and have the repair later.

You seem to have got some numpties working for you, and that is a shame, because as well as your reputation with customers, your repute with the TO is in doubt as well.

As Beetlejuice says, get rid of them.

Ken.

Steve,
I know 5% of eff all, but I do know that daytime tv with adverts for womens nappies and stairlifts along with Jeremy Kyle and Moose women is a quick route to insanity or the grim reaper.
You are not alone with these issues as my operator mates tell me.I think its just the world we live in.
Christ, Ive just had an ‘expert’ tiler (highly recommended) at my house who when asked how many boxes of tiles I need said, ‘Im not sure, Im not very good at measuring’!!! Its like having an airline pilot who only likes take offs!! ‘Im rubbish at landings’!!
Dear God , help me!!
Trying to run straight, a 24 hour workshop and uniforms must make you attractive to decent staff, you just have to be lucky to find them I guess.Have you considered newbies? I know there are insurance and possible damage issues but at least they should be keen.
Those ‘pinless grenades’ you have at present have to go, but manage them out properly as you dont want a costly employment tribunal situation to add to your woes.
With respect , could this be a knee jerk reaction which you may regret in time? Could a couple of days away from the coalface help clear the mind and sort out a plan E, or J depending on how many plans have been devised previously?
Good luck whatever you do.

Surely, since you will have to lay the drivers off if you surrender your O licence, you could just lay them off anyway and wait for the licence to expire and not renew it?

Verbal
Written
Final written warning
Sack

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Harry Monk:
Surely, since you will have to lay the drivers off if you surrender your O licence, you could just lay them off anyway and wait for the licence to expire and not renew it?

Thats something I hadn’t thought of. Expiry date is April 2019.

It’s my understanding that as a holder of a GVOL I must have acess to at least one vehicle in circulation. I’m guessing a “Hire” vehicle would suffice should I need access to a vehicle??

With regards to the drivers, lets just say we would be parting company so that I could concentrate on my workshop activities.

Verbal Written Final Written Dismissal is all well and good, but I genuinely cannot face another round of recruitment. These issues have become progressively worse over the last 18 months and the standard of applicant coming through the door is now an embarresment. People turn up here for an interview with half their dinner spilt down a t shirt that looks like it last seen the washing machine in 2004, absolutely stinking with an atitude to match. Where has the pride gone?

I am more than fair with driving staff. We pay what i beleive to be a good salary. (our highest earner last year was just shy of £39,000) We provide everything needed to do the job, including clothing boots etc… I dont take half a days annual leave off them when they have to see the dentist or have some other appointment. We have an in house CPC trainer and take care of the requirment FOC. I just can’t see how much else I can do for these people without spoon feeding them dinner of an evening as well!!!

It is a real shame, I love the transport industry, I travelled around europe with my father many years ago in the school holidays in a variety of different motors, including a 1987 112m and a variety of FH Volvo’s. I used to love going back to school and hearing how all the other kids had been to butlins and i’d been in Stockholm with Dad craning computer frames through a 4th floor window because they wouldn’t fit in a lift!!

I’ve met some great people over the years, and worked with some even better people, but the “old school” generation like Ken posting further back in this thread are a breed which are almost extinct.

I know i’m not alone with these issues and they are spread far and wide. Maybe in my old age I am starting to beleive that people are motivated purely by self interest and that every other poor sod can whistle!!

Beetlejuice:
Sack the fools

Best suggestion by far!!!

Who is managing these drivers?

By the sound of it…no one.

What is your procedure for fixing defects before leaving the yard? In my past experience drivers often leave with defects because their employer has no facilities or procedures for sorting them out, so they stop bothering.

Seems a fairly nuclear option to fold a going concern because drivers aren’t doing their jobs properly…

DonutUK:
Who is managing these drivers?

By the sound of it…no one.

What is your procedure for fixing defects before leaving the yard? In my past experience drivers often leave with defects because their employer has no facilities or procedures for sorting them out, so they stop bothering.

Seems a fairly nuclear option to fold a going concern because drivers aren’t doing their jobs properly…

Have a look @ the previous posts and you will see just how they have been managed. Constant disciplinary procedures, an incentive scheme that no one was interested in amongst other things.

Drivers leave the yard with defects after driving past my workshop that has 4 bays and is open 24-7 because they are either a) lazy b) incompetent or c) both.

Nuclear option? I wouldn’t like to be involved with anything that resembled the recent accidents we have seen involving Goods Vehicles, ■■■■ poor driving standards, ■■■■ poor attitudes from drivers that beleive it will never happen to them, and ■■■■ poor atitudes towards management/procedures all contribute to major events that ruin lives because someone didn’t do their job or were negligent in doing so.

As said above - No Thankyou - Not on my watch - I’ll bow out with my repute and sanity intact :smiley:

Steve H:

DonutUK:
Who is managing these drivers?

By the sound of it…no one.

What is your procedure for fixing defects before leaving the yard? In my past experience drivers often leave with defects because their employer has no facilities or procedures for sorting them out, so they stop bothering.

Seems a fairly nuclear option to fold a going concern because drivers aren’t doing their jobs properly…

Sigh.

You think drivers don’t need managing?

I agree that they shouldn’t need hand holding…but if you know the quality of your recruits is lacking, you must surely know that they will need more managing than others?

finbarot:
Steve,
I know 5% of eff all, but I do know that daytime tv with adverts for womens nappies and stairlifts along with Jeremy Kyle and Moose women is a quick route to insanity or the grim reaper.
You are not alone with these issues as my operator mates tell me.I think its just the world we live in.
Christ, Ive just had an ‘expert’ tiler (highly recommended) at my house who when asked how many boxes of tiles I need said, ‘Im not sure, Im not very good at measuring’!!! Its like having an airline pilot who only likes take offs!! ‘Im rubbish at landings’!!
Dear God , help me!!
Trying to run straight, a 24 hour workshop and uniforms must make you attractive to decent staff, you just have to be lucky to find them I guess.Have you considered newbies? I know there are insurance and possible damage issues but at least they should be keen.
Those ‘pinless grenades’ you have at present have to go, but manage them out properly as you dont want a costly employment tribunal situation to add to your woes.
With respect , could this be a knee jerk reaction which you may regret in time? Could a couple of days away from the coalface help clear the mind and sort out a plan E, or J depending on how many plans have been devised previously?
Good luck whatever you do.

I have had several newbies, you’re quite right in what you say, very keen and always happy to help. One of the good ones at the moment was a newbie and never left. The problem is that there isn’t enough of them that you can develop into an above average member of the team.

Pinless grenades - great comparison! 100 % with you, they have to go. Dangerous levels of incompetence. THEY WILL have an accident or kill someone one day, as long as they are as far away from me as possible when it happens, I can live with it.

As for a knee jerk reaction, not this time. I’ve been here before, the worry about getting work covered and who is going to turn up/do something stupid is affecting my well being and my relationship with my partner. I know it has to go. It’s been on the cards for a long time, I just always thought it would change, but it never did. A couple of weeks away from the coalface are long overdue though!!