Advice on customer refusing to pay

Right,firstly I am sorry for the essay but this one is a little detailed.

I am not going to name names here, those of you who can use forum search will be able to find out the parties to this dispute without me going around and putting badness into print. Which could end up being very important.

I need advice. My major client up to the middle of last month is refusing to pay for a job. The job in question was from Dalkeith to Swindon, a distance of 362 miles for which the notified rate was £430. This equates to £1.187 per mile, significantly lower than the £1.50 per mile offered when I signed up with them but it was out of Scotland. They say that when rates are low out of Scotland then other jobs are rated higher so that the week averages out at £1.50. This particular week averaged out at £1.146 per mile.

As previously shared with the forum I arrived at the Swindon location early, was kept waiting for 2 hours and was verbally ridiculed and abused by the staff. As a result, I became frustrated and my language became intemperate for which I apologised at the time. Later the manager was called out to my vehicle as I had “a problem with a member of her staff”. I explained that I had become frustrated and used a single swear word for which I apologised, that I didn’t have a problem with a member of her staff and that I just wanted to be tipped and away. She then told me that the warehouse team would be going on break soon and would get round to me in an hour or so. At this point I advised that as I had been on site for over two hours, waiting that long may incur extra charges, in a conversational tone, not threatening, just informing and she then rejected me and barred me from site.

From W H Smith I then went and waited for 45 minutes at Swindon truck stop before being diverted to a company in Reading who would take the load and re-attempt delivery. I made this detour, delivered the load to this company and then waited outside their site for a further 2 hours before I was told that loads in that area were scarce and I should try finding my own load. (That I did this with one phone call is beside the point.)

I parked up for the night at Gloucester services and emailed my planner asking about two jobs with outstanding details and this:

Finally, I need to know as soon as possible, definitely by close of play Friday, what the repercussions of todays debacle are. I was supposed to be deciding on what new trailers and second unit to go for this weekend but I can’t make any decisions until I know where the NINE56/deleted name relationship stands going forward.

I woke up in the morning to this response, not from my planner but from the Core Sub Contractor manager:

Good morning,

Late yesterday afternoon I had to report to my director and overall employer regarding the issue down at Swindon. As on the telephone I explained due to what ever reason the delivery you made on behalf of deleted name[has cost us no more work from that particular customer.
This in turn along with the Aldi Bolton delivery you made and recall a while ago has cost deleted name money the issue yesterday a customer were work from Scotland is priceless to us.

After speaking to my director it is in my best interests that you no longer work for our company with the 2 issues above I can see this happening again at collection and delivery points. I do not take these decisions lightly but when issues like this start to effect our business you are leaving me no alternative.

This morning I suggest we cut ties and you head back home get all your proof of deliveries and invoice in to us and I will ensure you will be paid next Friday for the work you have done.

A quick bit of background: The problem at Aldi Bolton happened in the first week of December and came when I was rejected because I told them I wouldn’t be able to assure them I could unload 33 pallets of a product I had never seen, grouped by flavours and in a specific order correct first time. I was told by phone by my planner that I had handled the situation in an acceptable manner. I was also charged for the re-delivery attempt by a Bolton based haulier by way of a reduction in rate for the job.

Now. I invoiced as instructed and sent it into accounts and to the core fleet manager who wrote the above email. The following Tuesday I received an email demanding a credit for the job as an invoice query. I responded that as the load had been carried, delivery attempted, over four hours of waiting time incurred and been diverted over 30 miles to a second carrier for re-delivery I would not be issuing a credit.

That Friday I hadn’t been paid so the following Monday I called and was told that as I was no longer available to work for them I had been reverted to 30 days EOM as in line with their terms and conditions. I argued that I would still be working with them if they hadn’t opted to breach their own agreement by terminating me without notice rather than giving the 30 days written notice required in their agreement. I informed them that as the work was undertaken as a core subbie and the termination was both involuntary and in breach of their agreement, and I had it in writing that I would be paid the Friday following that termination, I would be exercising my rights to charge interest on late payments of over 30 days delay.

Last Friday I was paid all but the £430.00 for the final job which I had refused to issue a credit for. I called up on Tuesday this week and spoke to both accounts who could or would do nothing, and the subbie manager who said, “well you won’t be getting paid that.” He told me that as I had cost him a contract, plus re-delivery charges, plus failed the delivery and that they wouldn’t be paid for the job by their customer I wouldn’t be getting paid at all. Attempts to negotiate or reason were rebuffed with him again referencing me having issues at multiple sites, (Aldi at Bolton, WH Smith at Swindon, me calling the police at a collection in Sheilsknowie because the FLT driver had deliberately hit me with a telehandler,). Apparently them having me as a Subbie has cost them money, (I thought that was the idea of paying someone to do your work.) and I should be fortunate they weren’t persuing me for the costs.

In addition to this I am still awaiting confirmation of additional payment for a Melton Mowbray to Marston Green run which was diverted by Chep after arrival at Marston Green to Swadlincote.

Now I ask you guys a few things,

  1. As I asked them and didn’t receive an answer; Do you really think that one frustrated driver saying "can we get this f-ing wagon tipped?, apologising and then being rejected, would be enough to put the kybosh on a contract worth tens of thousands a year?

  2. I have the name of the director of the company who is apparently the only person above the subbie manager to whom I can refer this matter. Do I write to this chap and hope for/expect a fair hearing?

  3. What are my legal options to persue payment for work done?

  4. Can anyone recommend a solicitor with a backbone and reasonable costs?

  5. Would anybody that knows the company I have been careful not to name and has personal bad experiences with them be willing to contact me by PM and share their stories in support of any claim I might make?

I wouldn’t waste any more money ,as for £430 for that Iam speechless .

In the grand scheme of things £430 is not worth worrying about, if you value your time it will cost you more than that trying to recover it. Write it off as a bad debt . One day you may get the chance to stab them in the back. The only thing worth doing perhaps is trying to poach some of their work if the opportunity arises.

After a while of working for yourself you will get used to everything which goes wrong being worthy of News at Ten from the other person’s perspective and totally ignored by everyone if it affects you. If it is their money then it is the end of the world; if it is yours then who cares?

That is the way things are.

What Dan said :open_mouth:

I.d just cut my losses and call it a lucky escape

In all your posts for a while I’ve seen various workings out, I’ve never yet seen a column for " ■■■■ poor rates and jobs not worth doing"

nsmith1180:
Now I ask you guys a few things,

  1. As I asked them and didn’t receive an answer; Do you really think that one frustrated driver saying "can we get this f-ing wagon tipped?, apologising and then being rejected, would be enough to put the kybosh on a contract worth tens of thousands a year?

While I’m sure most of these Goods in staff deal with plenty of stroppy drivers, maybe you were the last of a long line issues the customer had with the company you had been working for, or the whole incident was escalated once you’d left the site and somebody senior got involved and you are the sacrifice to smooth things over.

  1. I have the name of the director of the company who is apparently the only person above the subbie manager to whom I can refer this matter. Do I write to this chap and hope for/expect a fair hearing?

I wouldn’t write, but might be worth a call to put your point across, but really you need to decide how much time and effort you want to put into this, when maybe it would be better to look for other work.

  1. What are my legal options to persue payment for work done?

  2. Can anyone recommend a solicitor with a backbone and reasonable costs?

I reckon you’ll risk a lot more money and probably be a drawn out process to recover £430.

muckles:

nsmith1180:
Now I ask you guys a few things,

  1. As I asked them and didn’t receive an answer; Do you really think that one frustrated driver saying "can we get this f-ing wagon tipped?, apologising and then being rejected, would be enough to put the kybosh on a contract worth tens of thousands a year?

While I’m sure most of these Goods in staff deal with plenty of stroppy drivers, maybe you were the last of a long line issues the customer had with the company you had been working for, or the whole incident was escalated once you’d left the site and somebody senior got involved and you are the sacrifice to smooth things over.

  1. I have the name of the director of the company who is apparently the only person above the subbie manager to whom I can refer this matter. Do I write to this chap and hope for/expect a fair hearing?

I wouldn’t write, but might be worth a call to put your point across, but really you need to decide how much time and effort you want to put into this, when maybe it would be better to look for other work.

  1. What are my legal options to persue payment for work done?

  2. Can anyone recommend a solicitor with a backbone and reasonable costs?

I reckon you’ll risk a lot more money and probably be a drawn out process to recover £430.

4 - Dont even go there, you will be invoiced around £430 just to hear something you didnt want to hear in the first place…

All the above are saying the same thing about the money. It’s what the Small Claims Court is for. But even then, your efforts should be more to the future.
It’s a long time since I was in traffic office, but when using new subbies we would talk to other hauliers, competitors or not, a lot of conversations went on. If you are remembered for “cocking up” once, (their opinion not mine) that’s one thing. If you become the guy who “cocked up, then tried to sue us!”…
I’m making no comment about “right/wrong” etc, just throwing a point of view to you.

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Franglais:
All the above are saying the same thing about the money. It’s what the Small Claims Court is for. But even then, your efforts should be more to the future.
It’s a long time since I was in traffic office, but when using new subbies we would talk to other hauliers, competitors or not, a lot of conversations went on. If you are remembered for “cocking up” once, (their opinion not mine) that’s one thing. If you become the guy who “cocked up, then tried to sue us!”…
I’m making no comment about “right/wrong” etc, just throwing a point of view to you.

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This game is a small world regarding reputation, take the advice given on here, let it go, learn by the experience and move on…

And don`t take this the wrong way either Nick, but some of those comments you have made about the “altercations” come across a lot like a “drama queen”…every company has one or two, but if you are the only employee, it should never be you…

Head Down / Mouth Shut when the going gets tough, it works every time :wink:

nsmith1180:
Now I ask you guys a few things,

  1. As I asked them and didn’t receive an answer; Do you really think that one frustrated driver saying "can we get this f-ing wagon tipped?, apologising and then being rejected, would be enough to put the kybosh on a contract worth tens of thousands a year?

Probably one of many, or one of two that week, who knows, but customers are a funny creatures. ( Mostly who can’t equate the rate they pay to the quality of service they get ( no offence meant to you specifically nsmith) ).

  1. I have the name of the director of the company who is apparently the only person above the subbie manager to whom I can refer this matter. Do I write to this chap and hope for/expect a fair hearing?

Well you could try, but it’ll be a waste of time

  1. What are my legal options to persue payment for work done?

Small claims, but I wouldn’t bother

  1. Can anyone recommend a solicitor with a backbone and reasonable costs?

  2. Would anybody that knows the company I have been careful not to name and has personal bad experiences with them be willing to contact me by PM and share their stories in support of any claim I might make?

Not the people I’d work for. £430? I get more than that for a van.

Really I’d let it go nsmith. And empty your mind, it will do you no good being bitter. In 27 years, I’ve only being a bit off with a customer, no swearing, when they kept me nearly two hours before signing - union meeting followed by lunch FFS. Otherwise I deal with it!

If I may say, as you know yours and my approach are polar opposites. I should probably be a bit more like you, look at my costs more, chase late payers quicker etc etc; the flip side is that perhaps you need to step back a bit and not get lost in so much detail. You can spreadsheet yourself to an early grave, but you cannot account for everything and you need to just look at the bigger picture and accept that life cannot be nailed down to the last penny.

Good luck with finding better work

Personally…

If I wanted to pursue this then I would just issue a claim through Money Claim Online which would cost £30 or so, in the hope and expectation that they would realise that paying up will be cheaper and easier for them than defending it. If they do decide to defend it then you have the choice of going to the hearing and saying your thing or dropping it the day before, and as they won’t be able to claim legal costs then all you will lose is your £30.

I see the consensus building here. I think that my best option here is to send a letter to the director laying out the whole sorry saga and then when its ignored take a a week or two to think dispassionately about my options.

The majority are advocating letting it go but while I don’t want to get a reputation as a problem haulier, I also don’t want a reputation as a pushover you can get away without paying. As for references, I have several other hauliers who will vouch for my work ethic and professionalism and most decent firms will appreciate that a 97% no problem rate with deliveries is a fairly reasonable record for a small haulier dealing with the type of clients this particular company attracts. Also with regard to reputation, I have spoken to several other hauliers since this sorry tale and to a man, when they have heard who I was working for, the response has been the same; “Deleted Name, That was your first mistake!”

Harry Monk’s suggestion takes thinking about. £30 to recover £430 is a small price to pay but I appreciate everyone else’s position of the amount of time and effort it will take and the potential for further reputational damage to my company. I’m just loathe to let this lie when I could prove all the points I have made, reclaim the money and then have a firm standing for telling the world and other small hauliers who see the headlines of £1.50 a mile and 7 days terms that this company isn’t one to be trusted. I just can’t go about making those claims in an open setting without some sort of legal decision to back them up

I really am trying to avoid Ahab-ism but this is a company that have breached their own Ts & Cs, twice left me stuck hundreds of miles from home looking for a load because they couldn’t or wouldn’t find one, have three times short paid me, only once with cause and agreement, (albeit grudging agreement) and basically left a small haulier to wither and die. Only the fact I am a stubborn little bugger has stopped me from running to Maritime in an effort to save the business. I’m not giving up that easily but I will loose a lot of weight in the next couple of months!

Thanks for all the advice. I have a day or two of GT3 cars and Cameras to play with, (Must be done, its been lorry driving or paperwork almost every day since November, I was even doing admin on Christmas day! All work and no play makes Nick a bitter and twisted sod who will sue over £430) to think about the next steps but I can’t see how a letter will lose me any more than the £0.80 it costs to post it and if I do later decide to follow a legal route, having a paper trail to back it up is always a good idea.

They sound like a shower of ++++. No surprise.

Have you found some more regular work?

Stay Starbuck.

But don’t drink any coffee, in case that revs you up.

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Franglais:
Stay Starbuck.

But don’t drink any coffee, in case that revs you up.

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You literary giant, you!

albion:

Franglais:
Stay Starbuck.

But don’t drink any coffee, in case that revs you up.

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You literary giant, you!

Well, he started it !

And you aren’t such a slouch.

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Sounds like it was a close escape tbh. What a shower of ■■■■■. Wipe your lip and move on. It’s not economically viable to pursue. At least it wasn’t £4300!

Thinking about it nsmith, and I’m playing devils advocate here. If I were the boss of the other company I would think ‘I feel that you have messed up my business/contract and therefore I’m not paying you. You pursue me for £430.00 and I say, “bring it on son, I’ve got more dosh to waste than you”’.

Years ago i the mid 90s, I lost a bill for £125.00 + vat, which was a lot to young and struggling Albion Transport. I could have rocked the boat, but it wouldn’t have actually got me anywhere, so I let it go. It’s entirely up to you, but I’m still of the opinion to let it go.

None payment for whatever reason is another reason why we need to make a profit just like loosing 2/3 days due to snow is ,all this working for zb all because it looks ok on a calculator doesn’t work .

You can write the letter but still making a hell of an assumption that the guy will receive it or even read it. Once it’s gone through whoever opens the post, receptionist, his secretary and any others on the way will probably mean he won’t get it anyway.

Stay away and breath slowly. You have a perfect right to chase the money but would it really be worth the hassle in the long run? Nope, and may possibly make you ill in the process or cost you more money to chase it

Put it down to education and stay away from ■■■■ poor companies in the future :smiley: :smiley: