CF85 480 AUTO BOX thoughts?

Hello,
Im looking at a drawbar combo with a brick crane. The unit it is 2006 DAF CF85 480 6x2 with a tri axle trailer.

I’m looking to haul concrete lego blocks across the country, from farms to building sites and anywhere in between. The auto box really puts me off even with the 480 motor. I have read other threads it sounds like there are pros and cons.

Would really appreciate anyone who could give any advice.
Thanks Scott

I have driven a few CF 480 artic’s in the past when my 95 manual was in for service or repair and i found them alright out on
the road but pulling away or shunting about in a yard or a farm with limited space they were a bloody nightmare.
You press the throttle to go and nothing happens so you press it a bit more and wallop in comes the clutch and away you go,
there is no finesse with it, bloody awful things.
Is the rig cheap enough to covert it to manual with a secondhand ZF 16 speed manual (not a 8 speed) its not that difficult
to do or so i was told.

Honest truths here …with it being an 11 year old motor ,it is a risk…The early AS TRONICS ,and we are talking software here ,as the box is genuinely sound it is the software and how it is integrated to the truck …Well it wasn’t brilliant ,and wont be as good as the latest ,which still gets slated ,ask Juddian lol…The items in the box that would be of a concern are the split , range change, transmission brake ,and selector forks …I will justify it lol…The range and split are the only items with synchros ,so wearable parts ,in my experience ,the range is the only item to fail …The forks again if they wear will throw up a warning as they have set measurements with in the ECU and if out it will throw up a transmission warning .( all transmission faults will say transmission warning DAVIE is required to pinpoint the issue )…The transmission brake again is a wearable item …

Now a slight ray of light …Either take the vehicle to a DAF dealer before purchase ,who pays is between you and the seller ,but they can carry out a static and a dynamic sift rail test ,to see if the forks are within spec and a transmission brake test …both results can be printed off and given to you to make a decision …Obviously the dealer isn’t responsible for any decision you make ,They can also send an oil sample at a cost to you or the seller to the lab that DAF use to see what contaminents are in the oil which will help determing bearing ,fork transmiision brake wear etc even if there is water in the box …All warranty jobs go through the lab

Net bit yu have to be wary off is the water cooled looms…Major issue espically in 2006 …When assembled a loom would be installed and cable tied then another loom and again cable tied ,etc …One of the issues being the square lock of one cable tie chaffed through the loom placed on top causing issues …so tilt the cab ad where the loom flexes ,check for repairs …if happy I would cut off all the cable ties and use 1 large tie to wrap around all the loom so there is no chance of chaffing ,does the pivoting bracket still pivot ? and personally I would put rubber on all the brackets again to prevent chaffing …

I never thought I’d say this.

Try looking for a slightly newer MAN TGS. In maneuvering mode the gearbox on the MANs were slightly more forgiving than the same box in a DAF. The cab is better in build and finish too. And because MAN aren’t seen as a premium brand but for some reason DAF are, you might get something newer for the same money.

I cant give you mechanical reasons to do this though. Sorry.

I owned a 2006 spacecab XF 480 AS TRONIC from brand new until last year.
Yes it is a little difficult to master shunting forward and reverse but when you do it is no problem at all.
Yes it is a little slower to change from neutral to either forward or reverse but easy to get used to.
I see driver after driver moaning and complaining about this gearbox but I honestly loved it! I found that if you drove it like a constant mesh gearbox when slowing down or coming into a roundabout (brake,blip the throttle,it drops a gear,pull away from the roundabout),drivers forget that although it’s automatic it can’t read the road ahead and needs to be prompted,sometimes on sharp hills and narrow roads it is best to just drive it in manual. Yes the Volvo Ishift is much smoother and far easier to manouver but I think it’s far less fun :slight_smile:
With that truck I did multidrop pallet work (up to drops 30 a day),continental work to Germany,Austria etc pulling euroliners,and the last 5 years hauling re-bar to building sites with most of them being windfarms up some very steep mucky hills. I have to say that the gearbox didn’t give me one bit of trouble,never laid a spanner on it or the clutch,sometimes when shunting it would get confused if rushed and not select any gear,simply turn off the engine,take the key out of the ignition and let it settle for about a minute and all would be good again.
I think I know the truck you are looking at and was considering taking a look at it myself but the crane was a bit small.

Dafs are good trucks and the 480 matches really well with the ASTronic gearbox,keep it serviced and it should be a safe bet.

By the way…Listen to Norb,he knows Dafs inside out and helped me out with an issue I had before,saved me a lot of money :smiley:

Weve got a 100 dafs all with astronic, and what they have learnt is annual gearbox oil changes are literally worth their weight in gold, daf say 3yr or 300k and after 3yrs its as black as can be, after 1yr its still green/yellow depending on oil but is darker obviously.
I like dafs a lot but wouldnt buy one myself, in fact they are my choice of truck to spanner all day long no dramas.
On the upside the clutchs last forever unless the driver spends way to long in turtle mode or is so crap at reversing the clutch overheat warning comes up on the dash :grimacing:

Trickydick:
Weve got a 100 dafs all with astronic, and what they have learnt is annual gearbox oil changes are literally worth their weight in gold, daf say 3yr or 300k and after 3yrs its as black as can be, after 1yr its still green/yellow depending on oil but is darker obviously.
I like dafs a lot but wouldnt buy one myself, in fact they are my choice of truck to spanner all day long no dramas.
On the upside the clutchs last forever unless the driver spends way to long in turtle mode or is so crap at reversing the clutch overheat warning comes up on the dash :grimacing:

The oil for astronics isn’t cheap. We’ve always done them at ZF’s recommended and had no real bother.

Well as my name got dragged in… :smiling_imp: :laughing: :blush:

I found the older Dafs with arsetronic to be the worse for on/off switch type clutch engagement, though not as bad programming as bloody earlier Ivecos, Jesus wept, however i will say the box (given Norb’s very sensible advice about getting its bumps read before purchase) to be a reliable unit, bloody sight more reliable long term than Scanias box, pre new generation, if our fleet is anything to go by.

Coming up for 5 years now in my current MAN with arsetronic, now just over 700k and it hasn’t put a foot wrong, the clutch release bearing collapsed at half a mill (they all do that sir) but luckily not with me :wink: , i had already reported it at the dealer about 3 months before for excessive judder when reversing up a slight incline but sod all was done and the bearing went leading to being dragged in, its sisters had already done the same but at lower mileage.
Other than that, i drive it in manual and the gearbox is a lot better behaved for doing so, especially at moving junctions and controlling hill climbs, plus better fuel and maintained progress.

So if my experience is anything to go by, try some gentle controlled maneuvering up a slope and see A how you get on with it, and B if you can detect any judder.

My personal choice, 460 CF with 16 speed manual, bloody brilliant lorry, wish i’d still got mine.

Juddian:
Well as my name got dragged in… :smiling_imp: :laughing: :blush:

I found the older Dafs with arsetronic to be the worse for on/off switch type clutch engagement, though not as bad programming as bloody earlier Ivecos, Jesus wept, however i will say the box (given Norb’s very sensible advice about getting its bumps read before purchase) to be a reliable unit, bloody sight more reliable long term than Scanias box, pre new generation, if our fleet is anything to go by.

Coming up for 5 years now in my current MAN with arsetronic, now just over 700k and it hasn’t put a foot wrong, the clutch release bearing collapsed at half a mill (they all do that sir) but luckily not with me :wink: , i had already reported it at the dealer about 3 months before for excessive judder when reversing up a slight incline but sod all was done and the bearing went leading to being dragged in, its sisters had already done the same but at lower mileage.
Other than that, i drive it in manual and the gearbox is a lot better behaved for doing so, especially at moving junctions and controlling hill climbs, plus better fuel and maintained progress.

So if my experience is anything to go by, try some gentle controlled maneuvering up a slope and see A how you get on with it, and B if you can detect any judder.

My personal choice, 460 CF with 16 speed manual, bloody brilliant lorry, wish i’d still got mine.

I must apologise juddian for bringing your name in to the thread ,but I find your opinion about the box relevant as you drive the dammed thing ,so technically have a better understanding of how it operates than I do as you put in the mile if ha makes sense ,I on the other hand can be informative on the failure that I experience …So mechanically it is a sound box ,it is the software that is the weak link …Yep the clutch release bearig fails ,but you cant blame ZF for that ,the clutches are usually SACHS …Yep you are 1000% correct about the good old 16 speed box with the good old mechanical linkage ,no cable ■■■■ ,it was a good box ,3rd gear was hit ,but it kept me busy and happy repairing them…LOL My bosses never questioned me when repairing them…Even when I had to visit the ZF warranty lad due to a warranty rejection,once I had pointed out the issue ,he paid and I have never ever had a rejection since :smiley: :smiley:

No apology necessary Norb, its good to know some bugger that knows his way about the innards can put any reports from a second rate steering wheel attendant into some mechanical context.

I wasn’t blaming ZF at all for the clutch failings, its not the first bloody clutch thats like an on/off switch :blush: , i started out with an old S39 Foden in the dim and distant past, which had IIRC sintered iron pads as the clutch facing material, if you tried to slip these buggers the resulting judder would shake you fillings out and with the cast steel steering column bolted directly to the chassis :open_mouth: well you can well imagine the shocks that travelled up said column…and i wonder why everything bloody aches now, in fact its a short list of bits of me that don’t hurt :laughing:

I blame the MAN workshops for not taking notice of my report of excessive judder seriously, if they had investigated at the inspection when i mentioned it the clutch could have been replaced when convenient without a tow in and unplanned downtime three months later.

I know you weren’t blaming me etc :smiley: :smiley: I respect your views ,and can see through the rants :laughing: :laughing: Sadly workshops generally ignore certain driver defects …You may defect your clutch ,but ,and it isn’t an excuse ,most workshops will road test the unit solo ,and as we both know unless the clutch has already failed a solo roadtest is as much use as ■■■■■■■ into the wind hoping to stay dry…Also as you have pointed out the standard of todays driver and I will add along with todays standard of spanner monkey,then we are on a hiding to nothing …As the new “technicians” can’t diagnoise a fault with out a warning light …If no warning light is on then the truck is ok …■■■■ they cant diagnoise for example a brake squeal as it isn’t an electronic fault so the laptop wont tell them…Sadly more and more we do need accurate defects from the driver …with the complexity of todays vehicles a defect of warning light sadly does not help,the manufacturer when you require assistance or when the laptop says to contact the helpdesk require more info rather than warning light …You like myself are a dying breed ,just as todays drivers expect the truck to do all the work with minimal driver input and the world collapse if they have to actually press a clutch to change gear ,as he clutch is heavy or they struggled to change gear ,then our lot are the no warning on the laptop brigade …I remember adjusting point adjusting the timing and tweaking carbs just using your senses to know if something was wrong …Nowdays if it doesn’t start in 2 seconds there s an issue lol

Rant! :open_mouth: Rant! :open_mouth:

hmmph…minces off like a big girls blouse :smiling_imp:

I’ll have you know i haven’t had a good rant for at least a week, well online :blush:

You’re right though, the workplace has changed out of all recognition in both our fields, i’m lucky in that where i work we are still allowed to take a pride and to a large extent they just leave us to get on with it, we’re tracked etc but never does the phone go off asking why we’ve stopped or why we’re taking this route not that, its places that treat drivers like idiots that are effectively sealing their own company fates.

Norb, what would you say the gearbox oil should be changed at, MAN are saying it doesnt need doing yet but i know it hasnt been changed for almost 3 yrs, its me whos paying for the bloody stuff so i cant understand why they are trying to put me off

Though It probably still has the AS -Tronic, I can’t speak for MAN ,but a lot depends on how the vehicle is used ,so a truck on building will be done sooner than a long distance vehicle that spends its life on the motorway…Also each hour of PTO running is approx. 40km…On extended oil drain the max DAF say is 3 years or 540,000 ,if not extended then 2year 360,000,if puttering around cities then it is 2 years or 240,000 building sites /off road work is 1 year 100,00 or if extended 3year or 180,000…If your paying then it is up to you if you want it done or not,but if on a contract ,then you will probably have to follow the MAN schedule as they may change it 6 months after you have already done it,

Ye its the AS Tronic, its my own truck on an 11 plate so no contract maintenance, there arent any MAN techs on here so you will have to do :laughing:

Its almost 3 yrs and and over 300k since it was last done so im thinking gearbox and diff oil ? and its a bit slow selecting a gear so can the forks be greased/ cleaned?

There is no greasing that can be done on AS-TRONIC…They have never been the greatest of boxes even with speed of change …I would agree that the oils should be done ,as you know it wont be cheap for the oil and work be a 5 min job t refill both gearbox and diff…

Looks like I’m the best of a bad bunch lol