Hi all,
I’ve had a bit of disappointment with a company I subbed to. I notified them two weeks ago that their rates were unsustainable and I had no choice but to find work elsewhere. I did that on payment date so that week’s money was not affected. Since then they were three days late paying last week’s money and at the time of writing have not paid this weeks invoice.
I’ve been working for these guys for about 10 months, 8 and a half driving one of their wagons and 1.5 as a subbie and in all that time they were late paying once, by a single day. Then I notified them that I was leaving and they are messing about with the money. Last week I emailed them and got told that it would be in by Monday morning, which it was, this week I’ve phoned and left a voicemail yesterday but had no response at all.
Our agreement doesn’t have any terms governing late payments which means that the rules are covered in the Late Payments of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998. That means that I am entitled to charge 8.25% of invoice / 365 x 3 for the first late payment and a currently unknown number of days for the second late invoice. Plus I have one more invoice outstanding with them so god knows what is going to happen with that. Also I can charge £70 per invoice compensation for the late payments.
There is no worries about souring the relationship, I think I did that pretty convincingly when I told 'em I had to go because the planner they think is the best in the industry couldn’t organise a raffle. If they mess about with the last invoice too, making all three invoices three days late it would allow me to invoice them for £215, which would handily cover my overdraft interest bills for the time that I’ve been in it due to poor planning and rates. (Seriously, a fairly major haulier couldn’t figure out that I was earning 91p for every £1 I spent!)
My questions are these:
1: If it were you, would you send one invoice for each late payment or wait until all monies are in and invoice it all in one?
2: Do you calculate the interest on the plus VAT or inc VAT figure?
3: Do you charge VAT on interest and compensation? (I’ve emailed the accountant but I’m still waiting for an answer, if there is someone here that knows, even better).
I know the amounts I’m talking about are small but its the principal of the thing, not to mention the fact that the late payments are obviously triggered by my decision to leave them, as I said above, they have never done this before.
A good solicitor would sort this out in no time, that’s what I tend to do for slow paying customers. They tend to write to them threatening legal action and costs in line with your op. You could try the same yourself, then take them to the small claims court if they don’t pay up.
Where did you get the idea from that you can rely upon the Late Payment Act without stating on each and every invoice that the provisions of this act form part of your terms of business? even if it forms part of your terms of business which the client has received, the clerk passing invoices for payment will not know unless it appears on the invoice.
You need to read through the conditions of this act since IIRC you have to wait 30 days before you can apply it.
You cannot charge VAT on the VAT portion of an outstanding debt.
You will probably find that the invoice gets paid but you will struggle to get the interest without taking further action. You will end up chasing peanuts. 23 pence a day for an outstanding £1000 debt.
You’ve left, and put their nose out of joint- whether deliberately or not - on the way out. Ergo you’re dead to them. I’m sure they’ll cough up eventually but will be a bit of a fight. Not much you can do, it’s business. The time and energy spent chasing buttons in interest would be better spent sourcing more lucrative new work.
Hmmm. I read a company law website’s section on late payments in depth last weekend and there was nothing about a thirty day period. So, I just have to sit and ■■■■ up the fact that they are ■■■■■■■ me about with money. Joy!
Oh well, there are other ways to make my displeasure known. Ill just have to use one of them instead.
My understanding was that the debt doesn’t become late until 30 days have passed from receipt of invoice or due date. However once that period has passed then if there is an eg. seven day term you can calculate from that seven day point. If you wish to go down that path your solicitor will advise. There is no harm in issuing the invoice, just don’t bank on it as money owed in your accounts,ie. likely to be received.
If any of this becomes a bad debt then IIRC your accountant will not write it off for tax until next year’s accounts.
Own Account Driver:
You’ve left, and put their nose out of joint- whether deliberately or not - on the way out. Ergo you’re dead to them. I’m sure they’ll cough up eventually but will be a bit of a fight. Not much you can do, it’s business. The time and energy spent chasing buttons in interest would be better spent sourcing more lucrative new work.
Sound advice.
And I would 'phone them up daily for payment, speak to someone. Emails and voice mails will be ignored. If you have nothing in your terms of business about payments periods, AND a signed agreement with your customer, then you are wasting your time. For what a solicitor or debt recovery company would charge you forget that avenue. Sorry to be brutal but put it down to experience. If you try and build a business subbing for another haulier you will discover that they hold all the aces, it’s their rules.
nsmith1180:
So, I just have to sit and ■■■■ up the fact that they are ■■■■■■■ me about with money. Joy!
It happens a lot , you will soon learn to live with it, i.ve had people drag there heels over payments loads of times but i always get it in the end, its just a fact of being an owner driver
They continue to pay Friday’s money on the following Monday. Now we are on final invoice they have paid all but one job for which they are now arguing the price.
Surely you would have agreed the rates with them before starting as a subbie and also you would have agreed payment terms and late fees before starting
nsmith1180:
They continue to pay Friday’s money on the following Monday. Now we are on final invoice they have paid all but one job for which they are now arguing the price.
So am I right in thinking then smithy that they simply abused you and payed you something rediculos like 70pence a mile!
I think it was chaversdad who said it’s simply wrong to turn your wheels without knowing how much for… well you lives and learns.
Is there anything else the lads on here can help you with? What’s been your action now regards other work?
thomas higgins action before letter its about £3 this will get you your money within 7 days
Sound advice from burnley-si , and it’s a fact of life if you are in business
Read their webpage : www.thomashiggins.com/pages/collection- … e-one.aspx
I’m sure you’ll get paid any rate from the sound of it = they are just getting their own back and have the whip hand,
Hope they won’t chase you for it burnley-si - any more than Tunbridge Wells, Kent will chase me for my infringements on last visit.
It was laughable, the car hire company was legally required to provide my name and address (for which they charged my credit card another £30 it’s in the small print) and Tunbridge Wells council write and said they couldn’t enforce the fine but did I want to “voluntarily” pay it ! ! !
What you probably didn’t realise is that we play fair in Queensland - the local radio station is allowed to announce locations of roadside speed checks - unfortunately it doesn’t apply to police car speed checks as they move about all the time ! Better luck next time
OzzyHugh
alix776:
Surely you would have agreed the rates with them before starting as a subbie and also you would have agreed payment terms and late fees before starting
I was provided with several months data from one of their trucks doing the same work. Unfortunately it seams that they bumped up the rates in the data.
Mattwoodtransport:
So am I right in thinking then smithy that they simply abused you and payed you something rediculos like 70pence a mile!
Is there anything else the lads on here can help you with? What’s been your action now regards other work?
83ppm average actually, which on that work equates to about 89p in every pound I spent.
Week 1 I knew I would make a loss because of having to double fill the tanks, (put in first fill and top off at the end of the week) and because I lost half a day on Monday picking the bloody thing up.
Week 2 actually made a profit!
Week 3 and 4 were bad, week five the decision was made and week 6 I got out!
As for any other help I’m just going to have to wait this one out. They only owe me £350 at the moment because of a disputed job, everything else has paid. The will probably get back to me with a figure this week and of course I am free to refuse the money as too low, (though I doubt Ill get the buggers to pay more!). As you say, me lives and me learns. Unless anyone can point me in the direction of a company to sub for that will keep me in work year round and confirms the rates before the job, I’m just going to have to continue playing rate Russian roulette until I can pick up a direct client of my own.
As for other work, I’m on Wincanton containers now and earning a profit so I cant complain really. Nice chaps, prompt payment on short terms, and plenty of time to read my book on a bay!
Hang on 83ppm that’s nuts I charge that for a lab van 3 years ago
nsmith1180:
alix776:
Surely you would have agreed the rates with them before starting as a subbie and also you would have agreed payment terms and late fees before starting
I was provided with several months data from one of their trucks doing the same work. Unfortunately it seams that they bumped up the rates in the data.
Mattwoodtransport:
So am I right in thinking then smithy that they simply abused you and payed you something rediculos like 70pence a mile!
Is there anything else the lads on here can help you with? What’s been your action now regards other work?
83ppm average actually, which on that work equates to about 89p in every pound I spent.
Week 1 I knew I would make a loss because of having to double fill the tanks, (put in first fill and top off at the end of the week) and because I lost half a day on Monday picking the bloody thing up.
Week 2 actually made a profit!
Week 3 and 4 were bad, week five the decision was made and week 6 I got out!
As for any other help I’m just going to have to wait this one out. They only owe me £350 at the moment because of a disputed job, everything else has paid. The will probably get back to me with a figure this week and of course I am free to refuse the money as too low, (though I doubt Ill get the buggers to pay more!). As you say, me lives and me learns. Unless anyone can point me in the direction of a company to sub for that will keep me in work year round and confirms the rates before the job, I’m just going to have to continue playing rate Russian roulette until I can pick up a direct client of my own.
As for other work, I’m on Wincanton containers now and earning a profit so I cant complain really. Nice chaps, prompt payment on short terms, and plenty of time to read my book on a bay!
Ouch, those rates are awful mate… and it’s pretty brave of you to post your failure… so thanks for that.
Keep your chin up mate, keep plugging away, Iv got nothing to offer you in respect anything that may help on boxes… I have zero contacts or experience… I’m more flats and curtainsiders. Good luck tho pal and all the best.
