Main dealer... where do I stand?

Good day all.

Some of you may have read my previous post on servicing, so I opted to take truck to main dealer in my area. It’s a scania R480… Long story short had the egr light and engine malfunction light come on so took it in got it diagnosed, they told me it was the fan… so they changed it and about a grand later said it was fixed, however same lights are on again, only happens when it’s warm really so took it back and now they are saying it’s either the wiring to the fan and the loom or the ecu… problem is why didn’t they say that the first time, and how do I even know my fan was faulty?
What’s your opinion? Has this happened to anyone and should I trust this dealer again?
Staff have been helpful in reception but that’s no good if trucks still bust! Is it a case of process of illumination in cases like this?

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I think all main stealers will carry on fitting one random new part after the next to a truck for as long as the owner carries on paying them to do it. The people in the workshop are “fitters”, not mechanics, and all they do is fit things that the computer suggests.

the above post says it all…the computer diagnoses it with a guess,and the fitters fit it at your expense. if they guess wrong,its your problem as anything electrical will deffo not be returnable.you will always get treated with the same rules as if it was a new truck under warranty,guess after guess after guess.

Harry Monk:
I think all main stealers will carry on fitting one random new part after the next to a truck for as long as the owner carries on paying them to do it. The people in the workshop are “fitters”, not mechanics, and all they do is fit things that the computer suggests.

This sort of problem just highlights what happens if a motor is bought second hand without any sort of back-up , what makes this worse its one of the most sought after makes of vehicles , the operator has my full sympathies but why oh why buy something to impress other road users and others when the purchase of something far simpler that could be repaired by any truck workshop , all that glitters isn`t gold !!!.

shugg:

Harry Monk:
I think all main stealers will carry on fitting one random new part after the next to a truck for as long as the owner carries on paying them to do it. The people in the workshop are “fitters”, not mechanics, and all they do is fit things that the computer suggests.

This sort of problem just highlights what happens if a motor is bought second hand without any sort of back-up , what makes this worse its one of the most sought after makes of vehicles , the operator has my full sympathies but why oh why buy something to impress other road users and others when the purchase of something far simpler that could be repaired by any truck workshop , all that glitters isn`t gold !!!.

Just for the record the motor was not brought to impress anyone… it’s my preferred make, (is a 58 plate highline really gonna impress? Lol) buying anything 2nd hand is a risk, doesn’t matter what it is. However admittedly now i should of got something newer but only because I didn’t realise how much my business would grow in the early stages.
Thanks for the input and if anyone can recommend a decent garage or dealer in my area (Leicestershire) please let me know.
Cheers chaps.

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shugg:
This sort of problem just highlights what happens if a motor is bought second hand without any sort of back-up , what makes this worse its one of the most sought after makes of vehicles , the operator has my full sympathies but why oh why buy something to impress other road users and others when the purchase of something far simpler that could be repaired by any truck workshop , all that glitters isn`t gold !!!.

So tell us Shugg what would you recommend the OP buys ?
As far as I’m aware every manufacturer that sells mainstream trucks in the UK use electronics on a large scale, to meet emissions and Abs/Ebs braking, also engine management, does anyone build a simple straightforward non electronic truck ?
Scania are the most sought after make of truck secondhand for a reason, they are inherently reliable and in reality have the least flashy and most straightforward driveline, no fancy electric handbrakes or double clutch gearboxes just proven engineering and the high residual values reflect that, it doesn’t make you glory hunter in my book.

You mention that the fault appears when it is warm. Do you mean warm or hot? So has the fan ever cut in since you have had the vehicle, did it stop doing so and what does it do now? The old way to test whether an automatic fan was working used to be to cut a four inch square hole in the middle of a sheet of cardboard so that it would be in line with the centre of the fan and to use it to block off the radiator. Then to watch the temperature gauge carefully while running the stationary vehicle’s engine at a moderate speed until either the fan cut in, or the temperature gauge indicated that it was unwise to continue running the engine.

The experts on cooling fans and their drives are these people who may well be able to give you some advice on what questions to ask your dealer about how they decided that it was the fan at fault. It is possible that they supply Scania with the fan or drive for your model.

technical-services.co.uk/

Not a Scania or any other make fanatic but in our area Scania dominate the 8 wheel tipper market by a fair margin.
All the people I talk to say it’s because they seem the most reliable and simple truck on the market not badge snobbery

Whilst not helping with a remedy for this particular problem electronics seem to be the Achilles heel of all makes, especially when they are a few years old. We operate 24 DAFs ranging in age from 06 plate to 66 plate and the troublesome ones with electronic issues are the 58 and 59 plates. One of these, a 58 plate, keeps coming up with the same fault and our on-site mechanic has had his diagnostics computer plugged into it; it was fine for a few days, then faulted again. So we put it into another repairer that specialises in DAF; came back ok, then faulted again, so into the DAF dealer we purchase from, came back again ok, then faulted again. As the job isn’t very busy at the moment it is currently parked up until we decide its future. Two other similar age units also need attention frequently with electronic faults. Older DAFs are well known for wiring loom problems.

kr79:
Not a Scania or any other make fanatic but in our area Scania dominate the 8 wheel tipper market by a fair margin.
All the people I talk to say it’s because they seem the most reliable and simple truck on the market not badge snobbery

Like the V8 even the 6 cylinder range seems to be the last pushrod type engines around ?.If so that obviously makes the Scania first choice for in house or out of warranty major engine maintenance involving head removal or timing gear work at least.

I learnt my lesson on dealers the hard way not long ago.

2007 Daf, using an independent garage. After getting it through its first MOT and the first couple of PMIs the emission light and ecu came on and refused to go out.

They don’t have all the diagnostics so I took it to the local Daf place.

When I went to collect they tell me they’ve turned the light off. Don’t know what the prob was but after clearing the fault it is staying off now.

The next morning start her up and the light pops back on. Arrange to take it back quick quick and explain I need the fault diagnosing and rectifying, not just turning the light off.

Collect it the second time and they say they have turned the light off and it isn’t coming back on. They hadn’t replaced anything as no need as it is now behaving fine.

Somewhat dubious I take it back only for next morning up it comes again.

Stupidly, worrying about breakdowns, limp mode and disappointed customers I took it back a THIRD time saying please keep it until the fault is found. They call the next day saying light is off. No problem now. Have they done anything ? No, just turned the light off. When I pushed them the workshop manager starts getting arsey asking if I want him to start replacing parts randomly until it works. New adblue injector? New pump? It is only an old truck he says, is it worth it? What do you want us to do? So I say well crikey I thought if anyone could fix it it would be you lot but fine I’ll take it back and see what happens.

Next day on it comes. By this time I had received the bill for the first 2 visits. And also the fault code readouts. Faulty temp sensor on the exhaust. Get under and have a look and of the 2 sensors one has plastic housing popped open and hanging loose. Unplugged it, squirted some WD40, pushed it in and out a couple of times, clipped the housing back together and sparked her up…

All lights on dash go out emission fault and ecu.

3 visits cost over £300 each. Best part of a grand and the computer was TELLING THEM WHERE THE FAULT WAS!! but instead of looking at it they just cleared the fault every time.

When I called to complain and ask for the bill to be revisited the guys attitude was an education. He was essentially saying as long as you are stupid enough to keep bringing it to us we will keep charging you… and if those bills aren’t paid in full we will be pursuing you.

So that lesson cost me a grand and I now have ZERO faith in my nearest main dealer.

Nearly a year later still working fine.

In hindsight I could/should have got stuck in myself earlier but I sort of trusted that a DAF agent were the ones to get it done properly.

£1000 vs. a squirt of WD40. Won’t be making that mistake again.

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Any lorry full of emissions crap and electronics needs moving on as soon as the warranty is up, not only can they go wrong for fun, as proved in this and many other cases, nobody knows how to fix the [zb]ing things. They just keep throwing parts at it until they stumble across the actual problem, or you get sick of it and trade the lorry in.

I’m in a dilemma at the moment, I have two lorries that have been reliable, they’re still reasonably low mileage, have 200,000kms of warranty left and are worth decent money still. Do I chance it and keep them, risking the inevitable issues, or do I trade them for new? I’d like to think that they will continue to perform well, but if they don’t it could be a costly mistake, on the other hand if I trade them, I’ll never escape the three year replacement cycle and will always have a truck payment.

It seems that they’ve got me by the ■■■■■■■■.

I think my fault has been rectified… followed the wires back from the fan to the ecu and found two wires that were bear metal at the end, the plastic covering pulled back and a slight smell of burnt… I think these wires were touching together and shorting the system causing a fan fault and bringing the engine malfunction light and egr light to come on.
Since taping them up the lights haven’t come on again, Monday will be the test I have a semi heavy load to Birmingham, that would of been enough to put the light on normally so we will see.
If the lights don’t come on again I will seriously be wondering if I needed to spend my 1000 pounds at the dealer!?

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The fan wiring rubbing though is quite common where it comes out of the rubber support hose, it happens because the wiring from the hose to the block is not supported correctly, a cable tie to support it so the wire is central in the hose and a blob of silicone where it enters the hose lasts well.
Proper repair is fan hub off, cut off support hose clip and slide hose out of the way, then repair wiring refit hose and reinstall fan.
Some dont suffer at all and its all down to the wiring being central in the support hose as it comes out of the hose, slightly one way or the other will result in it rubbing.
We have about 60/70 dafs with this set up and its now std check on inspections, cable tie and silicone literally takes 2 minutes.

The scanias have the same idea but the wiring is properly supported throughout its entire length.

Trickydick:
The fan wiring rubbing though is quite common where it comes out of the rubber support hose, it happens because the wiring from the hose to the block is not supported correctly, a cable tie to support it so the wire is central in the hose and a blob of silicone where it enters the hose lasts well.
Proper repair is fan hub off, cut off support hose clip and slide hose out of the way, then repair wiring refit hose and reinstall fan.
Some dont suffer at all and its all down to the wiring being central in the support hose as it comes out of the hose, slightly one way or the other will result in it rubbing.
We have about 60/70 dafs with this set up and its now std check on inspections, cable tie and silicone literally takes 2 minutes.

The scanias have the same idea but the wiring is properly supported throughout its entire length.

Which begs the question, why couldn’t a main dealer fix this mans’ problem? Rhetorical question…!

jarvo:
Good day all.

Some of you may have read my previous post on servicing, so I opted to take truck to main dealer in my area. It’s a scania R480… Long story short had the egr light and engine malfunction light come on so took it in got it diagnosed, they told me it was the fan… so they changed it and about a grand later said it was fixed, however same lights are on again, only happens when it’s warm really so took it back and now they are saying it’s either the wiring to the fan and the loom or the ecu… problem is why didn’t they say that the first time, and how do I even know my fan was faulty?
What’s your opinion? Has this happened to anyone and should I trust this dealer again?
Staff have been helpful in reception but that’s no good if trucks still bust! Is it a case of process of illumination in cases like this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Personally I’d be getting in touch with DAF Head Office and seeking their opinion of the dealers performance in the light of the posts here.

TiredAndEmotional:

jarvo:
Good day all.

Some of you may have read my previous post on servicing, so I opted to take truck to main dealer in my area. It’s a scania R480… Long story short had the egr light and engine malfunction light come on so took it in got it diagnosed, they told me it was the fan… so they changed it and about a grand later said it was fixed, however same lights are on again, only happens when it’s warm really so took it back and now they are saying it’s either the wiring to the fan and the loom or the ecu… problem is why didn’t they say that the first time, and how do I even know my fan was faulty?
What’s your opinion? Has this happened to anyone and should I trust this dealer again?
Staff have been helpful in reception but that’s no good if trucks still bust! Is it a case of process of illumination in cases like this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Personally I’d be getting in touch with DAF Head Office and seeking their opinion of the dealers performance in the light of the posts here.

I’m sure Daf head office wouldn’t be that helpful tbf!

It’s a scania [emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51]

It’s going for a clutch on Tuesday so I will speak to them then see why they come up with!

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The thing that puzzles me is wtf has the fan clutch got to do with EGR? Doesn’t the EGR have an in line cooler before it spits the filthy soot back into the engine?

TiredAndEmotional:

Trickydick:
The fan wiring rubbing though is quite common where it comes out of the rubber support hose, it happens because the wiring from the hose to the block is not supported correctly, a cable tie to support it so the wire is central in the hose and a blob of silicone where it enters the hose lasts well.
Proper repair is fan hub off, cut off support hose clip and slide hose out of the way, then repair wiring refit hose and reinstall fan.
Some dont suffer at all and its all down to the wiring being central in the support hose as it comes out of the hose, slightly one way or the other will result in it rubbing.
We have about 60/70 dafs with this set up and its now std check on inspections, cable tie and silicone literally takes 2 minutes.

The scanias have the same idea but the wiring is properly supported throughout its entire length.

Which begs the question, why couldn’t a main dealer fix this mans’ problem? Rhetorical question…!

Being somewhat out of touch with the rate paid for employees in the trade, I checked and was somewhat surprised to find that it appears that the rate offered to those with 20 years experience or more tends to be less than that offered to those with less time in the trade. This presumably indicates that older fitters are regarded as dinosaurs who wouldn’t understand modern electronic diagnostics hence additional training to make them more versatile is considered pointless. It may be true that the ability to gas or arc weld and to use a lathe etc are scarcely required any longer, being replaced by outsourcing such work. However it seems that the traditional training which was formerly practised and the diagnostic thinking which it engendered, has now been superseded by a reliance on computer program based prompts, without any recourse to the simple principles of how the basic sytem worked before it was controlled by a microprocessor. It would appear that rather than ponder upon what simple factor might have come into play and performing a visual inspection based upon that thought train, there is now an almost total reliance upon fault codes thus often overlooking an obvious physical defect. It would appear that the ability to get the vehicle out of the door as quickly as possible, regardless of haw many times it comes back for another attempt at resolution, is viewed as a greater indication of ability than taking a day longer and to actually fix the problem.

payscale.com/research/UK/Job … ourly_Rate

Going to Birmingham on Monday with a semi heavy load seems a strange decision if the vehicle needs a clutch fitting on Tuesday.