Advice on Owner-Driver

Just read your message, lots of good advise given to you so far but no one seems to have told you about the “O” licence that you will need if you are going to be an O/D.

Check out the web site www.tan.gov.uk this will tell you of the requirements that you have to meet before you can operate your own vehicle, may also put you off!

I started as an O/D 24 years ago, now operate 11 vehicles from vans to 44t artics, hate it but love it at the same time, wouldnt know what to do if it all went down the pan, drivers are the worst problem, if you get good ones bend over back wards to keep them, bad ones cost you a fortune.

Hope this helps, just think, most of our best known fleets were started by an O/D,

BTTT

I am going through my tests at the mo and when some experiance is gained I am going to look into this

Dan

yes i would like to find out more about this,if anyone would be
kind enough to tell me.

there is a tarmac depot not too far from where i live delivering
building blocks etc. on artics.

i would like to find out some basic stuff,which you would feel a bit
cheeky asking em,such as,can you just do a basic mon.to fri. week
or are you expected to do saturdays etc.does it pay more than just
being employed by somebody else?where do you get hiab training
etc.

the other day i saw about 4 tarmac 8 wheeled tipper lorries,they
run out from a quarry near me (hoveringham)and i noticed that
all the trucks had the same owners name on them,so does this mean
then,that you can build up quite a lucrative business from this?

any help would be gratefully appreciated,cheers.

sidan:
yes i would like to find out more about this,if anyone would be
kind enough to tell me.

there is a tarmac depot not too far from where i live delivering
building blocks etc. on artics.

i would like to find out some basic stuff,which you would feel a bit
cheeky asking em,such as,can you just do a basic mon.to fri. week
or are you expected to do saturdays etc.does it pay more than just
being employed by somebody else?where do you get hiab training
etc.

the other day i saw about 4 tarmac 8 wheeled tipper lorries,they
run out from a quarry near me (hoveringham)and i noticed that
all the trucks had the same owners name on them,so does this mean
then,that you can build up quite a lucrative business from this?

any help would be gratefully appreciated,cheers.

Sidan

I cannot help you with the block job but can with tippers.

Number of vehicles you can have is only limited by the number you can pay for and the companies requirements for vehicles. So, having started out with one, you decide you fancy another. You go to your area TM and ask for the ok. He will yeah or neah your request based upon whether there is a need for them to have an extra vehicle.

Weekends. Your contract requires you to make the vehicle available whenever it is needed (working from memory but thats the gist of it). In practice, you generally do Mon-Fri and have a weekend rota where you tell the weighbridge if you are available.

So in theory you don’t have to work weekends. But if you don’t then all you will do is wind them up and end up with a visit from your TM to get your hands and face smacked, especially if the quarry is busy. Also, sometimes you need to work weekends to make up for a crap week (rain stopping play, no work, breakdowns etc etc).

Hoveringham is run from the Retford office of Tarmac Central. Their details can be found from Tarmacs website. Ask to speak to the Transport Department (I won’t post the guy’s name on a public board like this as I don’t have his permission). They should be able to help.

Does it pay more than a job?

Yes, if you work hard and don’t break your motor. If it didn’t pay more then why take the risk!

Hope this helps

thanks for the info lard.been sent some details from the “the man”
god them motors cost a fair bit don’t they?worth more than my bloody
house

nothing doing at the moment though,but thanks for your help.

Hello Sidan+Lard,
Just looking at your posts and Tarmac are advertising for tipper “contract hauliers” locally to where I live.Would I be right in saying a new 8 wheeler with a quality light alloy body and tip gear (Weightlifter,Hyva etc) will come in at around the £70000 mark? Can some of you guy’s give me an idea of rates etc? I take it they mostly pay on tonnage delivered so trying to get a 21 tonne payload is the ideal solution?

hello big truck,
they sent me some info quite some time ago now,and the example
they gave me was from an (x reg.) vehicle volvo fl10 8 wheeler,now
i can’t remember the exact figures off the top of my head (the literiture
is at my mothers),but i think if you add about another £20,000 to your
estimate,you’ll be nearer the mark

that said though,i still keep seeing the same names on the trucks
year after year out on the road,so it seems that most of the drivers
want to stick at it,but every time i ring em,i’m told there’s nowt doing!

with a young family and a mortgage though,my first thoughts are always
(have to be) financial,i would like to know,roughly how much you can
expect to bring home every month compared to a (normal) job.does
the block job pay more e.t.c.

Big Truck:
Hello Sidan+Lard,
Just looking at your posts and Tarmac are advertising for tipper “contract hauliers” locally to where I live.Would I be right in saying a new 8 wheeler with a quality light alloy body and tip gear (Weightlifter,Hyva etc) will come in at around the £70000 mark? Can some of you guy’s give me an idea of rates etc? I take it they mostly pay on tonnage delivered so trying to get a 21 tonne payload is the ideal solution?

70 grand will just about get you into a new motor that does the job. Start spending (wasting imo) money on “bull” such as sleeper cabs extra lights unnecessary horsepower alloy wheels auto gearboxes etc etc and just watch the price rocket…and with it your monthly hp payment.

You are paid on tonnage but the required spec for new motors now (including extra insulation and electric easysheet) makes 21 tonne a dream. Be pleased with 20 tonne.

I would strongly advise anyone considering doing this to think carefully. Forget the “romance” of having your own truck - its not yours. Its Tarmacs. You pay for it, sure, but they say what is done with it and when (workwise). Its their game and their ball and if you don’t like it then there is the gate! You are entering into a business, assess the risks and the outlay you make with your head not your heart - rest assured Tarmac do!

You can do alright at it though. Some quarries do far better than others, some areas keep you loaded more than 50% of the time which helps alot. I cannot say whether you would be ok or what you would earn as I don’t know about the areas you are in, what the rates are like, the amount of messing about you get at plants, whether you are on dry or coated etc etc.

I’m not going to publish my accounts on a bulletin board - nor will anyone else so asking the “what will I earn” question will not get you a relevant answer - as I’ve explained above, that depends on so many variables. Haulage rates are different for every quarry. Some are good some are hiddeous.

So things to do to find out if its for you:

Ask for illustrations of earnings for the unit you will work at. No need for names, just a good selection (rather than the “top earner” alone). Its not an unreasonable request to make.

Consider how much of your own money you can put into your business as a deposit. More is better if you want a newer motor. Buying a banger (if they let you) may work - you could be lucky, it may not break, or it could bust you in repairs. DON’T borrow your deposit from a bank. Thats two lots of finance - a bank loan AND an HP agreement. You are then completely enslaved to loan sharks and very vulnerable.

Get the full support of your wife. Most important this. Its her and your kids who are sharing in this risk with you. If it goes wrong then everyone suffers, if it works then fine! Just remember to talk about it with them as money troubles ruin homelife.

I started doing this when I was single and had no commitments. If it went wrong then so what. Now I’m married with a mortgage would I start out from scratch? Frankly, probably not, but I’m more risk averse now.

A final thought and I’ll shut up…You have to like doing the job. If you get a buzz from it you’ll get stuck in and give yourself a much better chance of succeeding. If there is some way of trying it out before you commit, do so. Offer to cover weekends, holidays, nights, whatever you can for the OD’s currently doing it. You are then in the best place to sound things out.

End of Lecture

Lard

hi lard,thanks for taking the time and trouble to answer.please don’t
think i was hoping someone would post their accounts on here,i wasn,t.

just a few footnotes on what you were saying though,about trying the
job out first,i once applied for a o/d job at (i think they were called enemix then)
now lafarge.it turned out to be a concrete mixer job,i was so keen to be an
o/d,its a good job the t.m. made me try it out for a few days first,coz i found
out that iHATED IT,it,s a good job i tried it out first,and not gone straight in
to it.there just wasn’t enough open road driving on it for me,and it was a
muck about job

also on that job,you started out with nothing financially,from your writing you
sound as if you need to put in some money of your own to starti.e. the deposit.

thanks again for taking the trouble,oh and p.s.

did you say nights

Cheers Lard,
You’ve given some very good advice there,
I’ve got about 20 grand that can be used to start up,but if you read the posts here you’ll see that I’m looking at every avenue thats open to me (and then some!!! ) ref going O/D. I priced a 8x4 2001Scania 114/380 fully painted and specced in TARMAC spec for sale at Smith Bros Widnes,It looked mint in the photo and was fully loaded with all the bells and whistles and was already sold at £49000 (Its in their ad in CM).What bugs me ref new 8 wheelers at £70000 is I know I can buy a new ERF 420c 6x2 High entry sleeper cab for £50000 straight and can get a minter 2000 tri alloy bulk tipper for £12000,Tax is cheaper,payload is 29/30 ton,but the quarries don’t really fancy it as getting onto and off sites could be a problem!!! I will of course speak to already establised o/d’s who work out of our local Tarmac before I commit myself,but I really have my head+heart set on running an artic.A haulier I know who runs three 8 wheelers on quarry work is trying to sell the Foden that he drives to go to running an artic because work was quiet in Jan/Feb and the artic will be more flexible.

Sidan:

If you didn’t like the mixers you won’t like tippers. My average run is around 26 miles. So you don’t go anywhere. It’s dull. You can sit around waiting for hours (I sat on a job the other day for 7 hours waiting to tip) you get paid but its not driving is it. If you like reading, knitting, inspecting the insides of your eyelids then the time passes easier.

So to cope with this job, you need to be able to stop thinking about it and worrying about it - if you cannot then you’ll flip. Seriously - I’ve seen what the stress of a lot of finance can do to people when you hit delays. Delays are unavoidable and are out of your control so you need to be able switch off to them.

To be able to switch off you need to be in a reasonably comfortable position financially , ie, have an affordable amount of hp rather than being at full stretch to buy that newer/new wagon. So this means a big deposit.

A rule of thumb that I use (and it is only my opinion!): New 8 wheelers depreciate at around a grand a month over the term you have it say, 3 years (if you bail out early then its an awful lot more, just like selling a nearly new car early, you take a big hit)

So, if your chucky is around a grand a month then this covers your depreciation and should leave you with your initial deposit at the end of the period. So its a short step from here to work out the size of deposit required to manage reasonably comfortably.

This only works for newish gear as repairs are low. Older trucks can cost a fortune to keep on the road - easily as much as the hp stated above so a dose of mechanical bad luck AND hp on an old vehicle is a real kick in the nuts.

So what am I saying? Buying a 2yr old for say 50k would need a deposit of 15-20k minimum (In my most humble opinion!)

Nights? Yes please. Bring them on! I love-em. Put a driver on in the day, run the night yourself - double bubble for easy work.

Big Truck:

For the nature of the work, read above. If you want the open road then this isn’t it. Tippers are dear and good ones hold their money. Bear in mind tractors depreciate at a meteoric rate in comparison. Artics can be limiting in this type of work as many sites are not safe to tip them on or have limited access. Also bear in mind that material delivered on artics is often delivered at an artic (read cut) rate! Wrong, but the way of the world.

Remember, do what you enjoy doing - your only here once!

Hope my rantings have helped you chaps and any other lurkers who may have been teetering on the edge!

Lard

Lard,
Keep the advice coming,
its all being put in the big truck masterplan and trying to work out what to do!!!
As you said you have to take into account your wife (no kids YET!!) as well.Shes none too keen on the idea of me tramping about the country being away Mon To Fri every week so the quarry tipper/mixer option is being considered,but moving to the mainland and doing traction and tramping about all week still hasn’t been ruled out.
I know quite abit about quarry work as I worked on farms and with Agri contractors for years so have done the tractor and dump trailer bit in the quarries more times than I care to remember !! Also have done a fews days for local 8 wheeler tipper men here and there.
Would 340hp on a 8x4 tipper be enough or would going to 380hp be better? Also what do you think of these new auto boxes for tipper work? Will an I-shift in a Vovo FM or AS -Tronic in a Daf CF/Foden Apha be a good job? In saying that the 2 year old minter alloybodied used 8 wheeler with a decent deposit will probably be the sensible option!!!
Would you mind Pm’ing me a rough estimate of what you gross per month on an average month just to work out a rough budget for myself? I know you said it depends on type of work ,how busy the quarry, distance etc.
Last question, what type of tipper do/did you run?
Thanks.

Big Truck

I’ve pm’ed you

Lard

I would suggest that if you have enough money to become an owner driver, then go and invest it & live on the interest !!!.

It is a very quick way to being poor, belive me!!!

It does help if you have someone you know who will " take care" of you.

But most companies associate Owner Drivers as stooges, it is very hard
to get enough of your own paying work and if you work as a sub-contractor,
you have already lost a percentage of your profits, maybe 10% straight away.

If you think being an O/D is more impotant than a life do it!

If not get a life & invest your money on something safe,like Iraqi oil reserves!!!

Hi gmdx
I myself am an owner/driver…self-employed,after starting up myself last year and BELIEVE ME IT IS B… Hard…not easy money at all, i am still going BUT there are times when you have weeks and weeks with NO WORK at all, other companies WILL give you work BUT you or waiting and waiting as well as chasing money up Most of the time , say you do a run for another company on the 1st of say april…you DONT get your money untill the 30th of May,And by the time that THEY decide to send out YOUR payment due, it is around the 8th of June,then waiting for the cheque to clear, it gets to around the 15th of June…AND that is IF you dont have to chase the money up, every invoice i send out to other companies i state that Payment to be made WITHIN 14 days, 7 out of ten times it does not happen…so now i tell them that IF they require me to cover a job, and they can not accept MY TERMS then the answer is simple…Their work DOES NOT GET COVERED BY ME, also some of them pay peanuts…IF you go for it, GOOD LUCK because you WILL need it, BUT A WORD OF ADVICE REMEMBER YOU ARE SELF-EMPLOYED SO STICK TO YOUR TERMS (sometimes giving way a little on price through other companys) ,I personally pay any one that covers work for me decent money, when the job has been completed, within a week or so…the companies who make you wait and wait should not have (to me) YOUR TIME OF DAY .
Hope This Is Of Some Help To You, i am sorry to bring the dampners on ,BUT some people believe IT IS EASY MONEY AND I SWEAR IT IS NOT,…GOOD LUCK AGAIN…if you need ANY more advice ,please DONT hesitate to ask me, or anyone else on here or elsewhere .of course you WILL get good and bad comments,and only you can make up your mind.

Lynne

I entirely agree with what you say.

It was for these reasons that I went to Tarmac. I get paid for the work I do in one month in the middle of the next.

Good cashflow. Without it, life is a ■■■■■!

THX lard, i’m sure many many others do as well,
i dont want to put ANYONE off becoming self-employed at ANYTHING but i tried it in the catering first and had to give up because of the money thing and it put me in hospital as i was getting sooooo worked up with working really reaaly hard i lost my sight honestly through stress…so here i am trying again , only this time i DONT GET STRESSED , but i am determined 100% to carry on ,touch wood it is up to now not ALL bad,all i am saying is that some people say “IT IS EASY MONEY” for those of us that have tried/still trying IT IS NOT EASY IN ANYWAY WHATSOEVER,and i should imagine it being worse for those who have small children…luckily mine are teens…so i say again to gmdx or any1 else JUST BE CAREFULL.,and GOOD LUCK.

lard:
Lynne

I entirely agree with what you say.

It was for these reasons that I went to Tarmac. I get paid for the work I do in one month in the middle of the next.

Good cashflow. Without it, life is a ■■■■■!

Same as you Lard, at least we know when we are going to paid and how much.

There is a lot to be said for it

cheers
STEVE.

The people we sub to pay weekly after the the first 4 weeks, in other words week 1 in week 5. Also, they dont take derv, trailer ect till they pay. I had a block carrier on Tarmac for 5 years, got paid 21st of every month after one month to start. Subbies not on the scheme were on 90 days though!

Mal.

Lard+Atkig and the rest of the team,
Received a “Contract haulier starter pack” from the TM at the local Tarmac quarry today,I think its going to take at least two weeks to read through the thing,I think its taken a couple of acres of rainforest to produce it!!!
All the main stuff is in here including, Haulier Application forms,vehicle insurance proposals,VAT details and examples of invoices,remittance advice etc,My brain hurts just looking at it I think I’ll bell up the TM tomorrow to see what the “craic” is.