Scania Vabis LV type

I posted some discussion of these here: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=16537&start=60#p1042900
I have made some sense of it now, having identified some of the coachbuilders involved.

lv75un6.png

f115.jpg

My visit to the Scania Museum revealed that 400 chassis were sent to Beers in the Netherlands; half had fibreglass cabs, half steel. I am guessing that these would be the Werkspoor and van Eck vehicles, since these look similar and use the same windscreen (Mercedes, I reckon) and rear quarterlights (F86?)- maybe Beers ordered a batch of these parts, then subbed the work out to the two cab-makers?

The consensus seems to be that there were over a dozen different coachbuilders making them, suggesting that many more than 400 were built. Some of the van Eck ones had LB76 grille panels, suggesting that they were built in 1963 or later- did they use 76 series chassis? If anyone has information on these vehicles, please post it.

Edit- the photo of the Werkspoor LV, above, shows it in the Scania Museum. It was not there on 7th May this year, the day I visited. I don’t know if it is owned by Scania (what a dope I am- I did not recognise the background of the photo!).

There was a very good thread on these Scanias on the old Big Lorry Blog platform, which has unfortunately been lost when they changed servers. The coach builders were noted and a photo was provided of one of these vehicles being operated from the United Kingdom. I think I saw the remains of one of these models in Rush Green Motors scrapyard about 15 - 20 years ago.
In addition to the designs you have researched, I also have a photo of a slightly different cab design from my own photo collection

Richard Stanier:
There was a very good thread on these Scanias on the old Big Lorry Blog platform, which has unfortunately been lost when they changed servers. The coach builders were noted and a photo was provided of one of these vehicles being operated from the United Kingdom. I think I saw the remains of one of these models in Rush Green Motors scrapyard about 15 - 20 years ago.
In addition to the designs you have researched, I also have a photo of a slightly different cab design from my own photo collection0

Evening all, one of the greatest items of regret is the total loss of the historical posts of Big Lorry Blog. Rikki UK, is trying very hard to re-establish this particular blog, (and we all must help him in this endeavour), but the quantity of anecdotal, and factual documentation, from “real” contributors, lost, is immensurable, and totally regretable!! Can nothing be done to retrieve this data■■? Cheerio for now.

Richard Stanier:
There was a very good thread on these Scanias on the old Big Lorry Blog platform, which has unfortunately been lost when they changed servers. The coach builders were noted and a photo was provided of one of these vehicles being operated from the United Kingdom. I think I saw the remains of one of these models in Rush Green Motors scrapyard about 15 - 20 years ago.
In addition to the designs you have researched, I also have a photo of a slightly different cab design from my own photo collection

Hi Richard, that was one of the cabs I have not (yet) been able to identify. Here’s another one: flickr.com/photos/skitmeiste … otostream/
Eventually, I hope to find them all and get details such as numbers built and when, where they were sold etc.

If you open the link to the thread I posted above, it shows the Rush Green LVs- both van Eck-cabbed. One is on a “D” (1966) plate, but it has a pre-1963 grille, so it must have been imported secondhand. It would be interesting to find out what made a British operator choose such an obscure vehicle!

These vehicles are fascinating because (a),their history seems very sparsely documented and (b),by the mid 1950s, it was obvious that large, forward-control sleeper cabs would quickly come to dominate, so the coachbuilders’ work was very important, I believe, to establishing Scania Vabis in Central Europe.

PS Regarding Biglorryblog: if they have lost the archive completely, they want shooting. It was already a sound historical document. The custodian of it has a duty to preserve it for the future, regardless of any petty excuses. In any case, what level of incompetence does it take, to neglect to back up one’s data?

At a site from Swedish Railway museum I found some photos of an LV75 taken in 1964, owned and used by the Swedish State Railways own hauling firm “SLAB” (“Svenska Lastbilar AB”, which later became “Svelast”):
svjvm.dyndns.org/jvm/index.htm

This photo I´ve borrowed from that site, and from what I´ve been told this is a Be-Ge cab. But I doubt that it ever was exported outside Sweden.

/Stellan

Autotransit:
At a site from Swedish Railway museum I found some photos of an LV75 taken in 1964, owned and used by the Swedish State Railways own hauling firm “SLAB” (“Svenska Lastbilar AB”, which later became “Svelast”):
svjvm.dyndns.org/jvm/index.htm

This photo I´ve borrowed from that site, and from what I´ve been told this is a Be-Ge cab. But I doubt that it ever was exported outside Sweden.
/Stellan

Hej Stellan, Thanks for the info. I found another photo of the same motor here, with a little story of its life underneath: norvinge.se/bilder.asp?kat=50&sida=2

Then I found a Merc with the same cab (LP333? The type that usually had a Kassbohrer or Wackenhut cab, before Mercedes “productionised” their forward control cabs) here: veteranlastbilar.se/phpBB3/v … =27&t=3350
This site also states that the cab was by BeGe, because the Mercedes cabs were not “slagprovade” in Sweden. That word defeated me and Microsoft Translator- what does it mean?

Then I found this site: nogg.se/gBook.asp?idHomepage=60798
I could not get the site to show any photos, but the text says SLAB had a couple of LV75s with a BeGe Ackermann cab- maybe it was a joint venture between the two coachbuilders. The cab in question certainly looks nothing like the usual BeGe product.

The Lv75 at Norvinges site was locate at the Malmoe office, and was a 1961 model with the Be-Ge cab. Bo Norvinge is a friend of mine, so I´ll ask him about the LV75 lorries Slab had next time I talk to him.

“Slagprovade” is the Swedish word for crash tested. They release a weight hanging in a wire into the cab made of steel, which I believe Sweden was the first country to legislate about. If you look at the sun visor at Mühlbergers lorry, you can catch sight of the Be-Ge badge. Since Slab never equipped their lorries with anything extra they didn´t have sun visors, but the small lamps on the roof sat on all Be-Ge cabs at that time.

Here you can find more about some Swedish Ackerman built cabs:
veteranlastbilar.se/phpBB3/v … hilit=LV75

/Stellan

Autotransit:
The Lv75 at Norvinges site was locate at the Malmoe office, and was a 1961 model with the Be-Ge cab. Bo Norvinge is a friend of mine, so I´ll ask him about the LV75 lorries Slab had next time I talk to him.

“Slagprovade” is the Swedish word for crash tested. They release a weight hanging in a wire into the cab made of steel, which I believe Sweden was the first country to legislate about. If you look at the sun visor at Mühlbergers lorry, you can catch sight of the Be-Ge badge. Since Slab never equipped their lorries with anything extra they didn´t have sun visors, but the small lamps on the roof sat on all Be-Ge cabs at that time.

Here you can find more about some Swedish Ackerman built cabs:
veteranlastbilar.se/phpBB3/v … hilit=LV75

/Stellan

Hej Stellan, I bow to your very superior knowledge, and eyesight- I still can’t see a BeGe badge on the sunvisor of the Mercedes!

The Ackermann car transporters look very impressive, but their cabs look nothing like the ones on the SLAB and Mülberger lorries. To clarify the mud in my head, did Ackermann have nothing to do with these BeGe cabs? On a more trivial note, do you reckon BeGe used F86 wheelarches on these cabs? Also, they look a bit like AEC MkV’s- the roofline and rear quarterlights particularly- is it a step too far, to speculate upon a connection between the two?

Now for the big one- my “favourite” LV- its cab looks similar in size to a Transcon- it must have been the most impressive lorry in Europe, around 1960. Is this work of Ackermann, considering the similarity in the detail of the decoration above the grille?

2009-03-23%2520%2520Scania%2520van%2520Pa%2520Vermey%2520Rotterdam.jpg

My knowledge is not bigger than anyone else, but I have the advantage of reading Swedish unhindered, and I knew what to look for… and where :grimacing: . I grew up with lorries from this time, and some of them was still in use when I begun to drive and that probably helps now when I am a “hobby historian”. :smiley: :smiley:

To the left of my “X” you can see the shape of the BeGe badge at the Mühlberger cab.

Here´s a part of an LS76 cab, and the name is almost readable

I don´t believe that Ackermann have anything to do with BeGe, but I´ll ask Bo next time. Volvo never had anything else than their own built cabs on F86, but the predecessor L3851 “Viking” introduced in 1954 had most likely a BeGe cab.

This is the only photo of a L3851 I have in my own paper archive, and you can sense the relationship to the Scania cab on this photo

I´m in no way any expert on this, but the Swedish Ackerman had wings at both sides of the badge… which this Dutch LV75 don´t have. But as you say, it´s an impressive vehicle :sunglasses:

Edit: I found this site when I searched for the BeGe logotype: the company history… in english :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
be-ge.se/index.php?option=co … 96&lang=en

/Stellan

Autotransit:
My knowledge is not bigger than anyone else, but I have the advantage of reading Swedish unhindered, and I knew what to look for… and where :grimacing: . I grew up with lorries from this time, and some of them was still in use when I begun to drive and that probably helps now when I am a “hobby historian”. :smiley: :smiley:

/Stellan

Super work Stellan. I can see that the L3851 has the same BeGe cab as that on the SLAB lorries and the Mercedes. My speculation on an AEC connection can safely be forgotten, I think.

Here’s to hobby historians everywhere- lets hope one of us can shed (excuse the pun!) some light on the big-cab LV. I am obsessed with it. I reckon it uses a Mercedes windscreen, same as the van Eck and Werkspoor cabs. Also, the rear side windows look a bit familiar to me, somehow.

Here’s another one I found which, oddly enough seems to have some LB76 parts- the wheelarches and grille. It looks as if it is in the process of being saved. I hope so.

zeldzamelbs754300987ea8.jpg

In the German Wikipedia I found out that Wackenhut, Schenk, Kässbohrer and Kögel built the forward-control cabs for Mercedes in the mid fifties… could they have built cabs for the Dutch marked as well, or sold parts to them? It looks like some of the Dutch made cabs for the Lv75 have a lot of German parts

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz-Lkw

/Stellan

Autotransit:
In the German Wikipedia I found out that Wackenhut, Schenk, Kässbohrer and Kögel built the forward-control cabs for Mercedes in the mid fifties… could they have built cabs for the Dutch marked as well, or sold parts to them? It looks like some of the Dutch made cabs for the Lv75 have a lot of German parts
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz-Lkw
/Stellan

Hej Stellan, more interesting stuff. Most of the LV cabs seem to originate from NL, although I think you are correct- coachbuilders all over Europe must have mounted their work on the L75 chassis- the one below has an Iberian look about it, although it is Dutch-registered. None that I have found resemble the Wackenhut or Kässbohrer cabs used by Mercedes and, so far, I have not managed to find any pictures of forward-control cabs by Schenk or Kögel.

aah132.jpg

Now for a special treat- I have found some more photos of “Big LV,” as I have christened it, here:
transport.jalbum.net/Foto’s%20Jo … 26642.html


It doesn’t look quite so big with the two ladies standing in front of it, but Dutch women may be taller than usual! Like other LVs, it appears to use the post-1961 Mercedes windscreen. Your eagle eyes may recognise other parts, for instance the badge below the windscreen. It bears some similarity to the badge on the grille of this other, unidentified, example (which also has the Merc(?) 'screen):

the pegaso one was interesting ,and others to,keep on anorak,cheers benkku

Schenk and Kögel were maybe subcontractors to the other firms, and built no cabs by their own? It would be very interesting to know how many “75” chassis Scania-Vabis exported during this time, and how many of them that became the Lv-model :confused: .

I had my doubts about “Big LV” when I first saw it, and when you look closer the photograph must been in a very low angle… and the total height of the lorry was maybe not as high as it seemed to be
The badge on it seems to be a triangle turned upside down with a crown above it… otherwise is the plate below the bumper the only “odd” thing I can see. It was earlier then the TIR-plate on the last photo, so it would maybe be possible to get a time frame of when it was made.

Where is the Sherlock Holmes of lorries when we need him…his assistants struggles on their own with big difficulties here. :grimacing:

Autotransit:
Schenk and Kögel were maybe subcontractors to the other firms, and built no cabs by their own? It would be very interesting to know how many “75” chassis Scania-Vabis exported during this time, and how many of them that became the Lv-model :confused: .

I had my doubts about “Big LV” when I first saw it, and when you look closer the photograph must been in a very low angle… and the total height of the lorry was maybe not as high as it seemed to be
The badge on it seems to be a triangle turned upside down with a crown above it… otherwise is the plate below the bumper the only “odd” thing I can see. It was earlier then the TIR-plate on the last photo, so it would maybe be possible to get a time frame of when it was made.

Where is the Sherlock Holmes of lorries when we need him…his assistants struggles on their own with big difficulties here. :grimacing:

Judging by the number of LVs shown on the internet- I must have seen about 50 different lorries already- many more, than the 400 chassis sent to Beers, must have been built.

According to the caption under its photograph on flickr, “Big LV” was built in 1961. In an attempt to gauge the height of the cab, I have crudely “parked” it next to an LBT140. “Mine’s bigger than yours,” the driver of the LV is saying. “No it isn’t!” is the reply.

This one resembles the forward-control prototype built by Scania Vabis in 1958, which Eric-Björn Lindh shows in his book:

scania.JPG
It, and that prototype, appear to use a version of the Volvo L3851-type BeGe cab we discussed above.

[zb]
anorak:
Judging by the number of LVs shown on the internet- I must have seen about 50 different lorries already- many more, than the 400 chassis sent to Beers, must have been built.

Obviously it was a lot of LVs built in Holland, but how many different cab builders were involved… and where were they located? Maybe we have to learn Dutch and looking for books about this subject :grimacing:

Autotransit:
Obviously it was a lot of LVs built in Holland, but how many different cab builders were involved… and where were they located? Maybe we have to learn Dutch and looking for books about this subject :grimacing:

One way would be to trawl through the archives (with permission, of course!) at Scania, to see how many uncabbed L75 (and 76- we still don’t know if LVs were built after the launch of the LB76) chassis were delivered, and where. Of the surviving known (to me) LV coachbuilders- BeGe, van Eck and Ackermann- it is surprising that none of their websites mention the super cabs they built in the late '50s and early '60s. I guess that they are somewhat ashamed that the more “sophisticated” side of their businesses declined, and they were reduced to building seats and trailer bodies. I think a few phone calls may be coming their way…

It´s getting more and more difficult to get any historic material at all from the larger companies of today, they don´t have any money or people dedicated for any archives. We´re here to sell new lorries, the old stuff is for the museums… and there it´s not of our concern any more they says.

I´ll try to get in touch with the old curator at the Scania museum Palle Björkman, he´s a living encyclopaedia when it comes to Scania history. Maybe he can give us a hint of where to search further, or maybe can arrange so I can visit their archive… it´s only 450 km from Gothenburg to Södertälje. :smiley:

/Stellan

Hi guys, I have recently asked my old friend Niels Jansen about the Scania LV models in the Netherlands, and this is his reply,

The LV-series saw its hey day around 1960. The reason to make this model was because Dutch operators were not content with the permitted lengths of 15m for an artic and 18 m for a drawbar (in some countries even 16.5m). They wanted more load length. At the time Scania could not offer a cabover yet. In Sweden it was possible in those days to operate up to a length of 32 metres (!), so they did not need a cabover. Beers imported already in 1955 Scania bus chassis that were converted in NL to cabovers. The LV was built between 1958 and 1963. In the latter year Scania introduced its own cabover, the LB76. About eight Dutch coach builders offered a forward control cab. The best known are Werkspoor, Van Eck, Paul en Van Weelde, Roset and De Graaff. I am not sure who built the one you have a picture of, but will ask around and let you know in due course. The LV80 was produced here on behalf of Beers before the official LB80 was launched in Sweden.

So I hope that helps a little.

For my part it’s also worth pointing out that the Dutch had a very strong pedigree in coach building cabs in the 1950s and 1960s, and even as late as 1974 Terberg exhibited a tipper at the RAI with a coach built cab, despite also offering Mercedes and Volvo sourced designs.

Sometimes coach bulit cabs were used despite the chassis supplier offering their own cabs, and some vehicles featured coach buit designs that were very similar to the manufacturers design, or incorporated original panels from those designs. However, this is a Scania thread so here’s another from my collection.

If you look at picture ten and eleven at this site veteranlastbilar.se/Gallery.asp?pageid=708 you find another Swedish registered forward-controlled Scania-Vabis. It´s originally a Scania-Vabis Regent chassis (LS71) that was rebuilt at Kässborer. In addition to the superstructure, the steering wheel and the pedal rack had to be modified. It was an article about this vehicle in the Scania magazine “Mil” #2 in 1956, so I´m searching for that issue now. According to what I have been able to find this LS71 was from 1956, and it was rebuilt from articulated tractor to the rigid on the pictures in 1959

/Stellan