Cummins Engines

Hello all, now what do you Gentlemen make of ■■■■■■■ . Could it be that they are the finest lorry engine builders of all time ? (but I am only talking about the inline 6 cylinder engines… I suppose everyone is allowed a mistake, and the V6, and V8s certainly were)!

I loved the 180, the 205, and the 220, despite Atkinson, as well as the other “assemblers” handicapping their performance by fitting on occasions a 6speed box behind them! But with a 610 Fuller…what a goer, and could`nt they do some big mileages, and easy to repair.

Never had much to do with the 250s, or the early 290, although I do remember one of Pat `s Eurotests with a Seddon Atkinson that turned in some really good performance, despite , if I remember the units inability to couple to the test Trailor, trailer ! I also remember Our Dealership in Antwerp taking into stock as a part exchange a Motorpanels cabbed ERF European, with a US built 335 ■■■■■■■■■ what a magnificent machine, and what a potential sales success, needless to say it did not stay in stock for long! The Swiss seemed to like the B Series ERF with ■■■■■■■ power, “good in the mountains” I was told by Rudi Aolst, of Newbag AG, our Swiss Dealer.

Back in the UK in the late 80s I put my money down behind my faith in ■■■■■■■ power, and I never regretted it! Whatever the chassis, ERF, Seddon Atkinson, even the little Leyland Roadrunner, 14litre, 10litre, or even the little in line 6, ■■■■■■■ always operated within budget. And you could talk direct to the ■■■■■■■ people, which alleviated some of the ridiculous protracted warranty procedures of the “assemblers”, (surely one of the greatest turn offs for future repeat sales ever). But we never ever neglected preventative maintenance. I still fondly remember 5 ERF E series 4x2s , 4, 14litre, and 1, 10litre, put to work on a 5year contract with a “blue chip” client, written at 175000miles per year, never a penny over budget, totally reliable, made their “buy back” without penalty, and no doubt went on to make money for someone else afterwards!

Yes I rate ■■■■■■■■ but what do you Gentlemen think? What are your experiences? Over to you, Cheerio for now.

This thread should be re-named “The Saviem ■■■■■■■ Engine examination Board” !!! Regardless of what I’ve said about Gardner/Scania our experiences with ■■■■■■■ were excellent with the installation of the 180/205/220 in the MK1 and Borderers,ERF’s and lone Seddon 32/4.We ran about 20 ■■■■■■■ during the 70’s but the 6spd DB box in a few did cause major problems,not so with the those fitted with the Fuller boxes,610,6509 and 9509.But at the advent of the 250 and upwards, fuel ecomomics took precedence so that was,unfortunately, the end of the line for ■■■■■■■ chassis as far as we were concerned.But the reliability of the ■■■■■■■ 14 ltr engines was 100%,but we had begun running the Gardners and,of course the great Scanias and nothing any number of ■■■■■■■ engined Demos could do led me to believe we had made a mistake! Cheers Bewick.

The first lorry I had for any length of time was ■■■■■■■ powered, a Seddon Atki 400 with an E290, I went all over the place in that, never let me down and it pulled like a train. had another E290 in a Transcon, again it was a good engine, unlike the rest of that lorry which fell apart on a daily basis :cry: The only mechanical problems I had with them both were related to the solenoid that shut the engine off on the key, it was easily cured by winding in the little knurled knob on the solenoid, once I found out what the problem was.

I’ve owned a couple of L10s, one a 250 in a C series ERF, it was nothing special, I didn’t drive it much, but it did the job well enough. The other one was a 325 in a Strato, I only drove that twice, once when I bought it and the other time was when I sold it, neither cost me a penny in breakdowns, so a good experience when all’s said and done :wink:

My job at TRUCK started with a test write up I did on a Foden Alpha with an M11, the firm I worked at had it on demo, it was a 440hp model and it impressed me, we were running 400hp Scanias and Merc Actros, the Foden was more than a match for all of them. The write up impressed Andy Salter and got me an interview and the rest is history :sunglasses:

Yep, best engine of the lot, 14 litre i loved passionately, especially when turbo’d, sheer guts.

Drove 205, 220, 250, E290 and E320.

Also drove L10 250, to be honest i never rated them, lacked the sheer unstoppable pull of the 14.

Best i ever had was a '84 ex demo twin steer Sed Ack 401, damned fine motor that was, indeed one of the best lorries i’ve ever driven.
It was one of the first 14 litre E320’s, and i was asked to monitor fuel consumption as it had been fitted with a different set of injectors by Vee and Inline’s at Daventry who supplied it, they never said but i reckon it had been uprated on the QT to 350, cos no other 320’s could live with it, sounded slightly different to the others and it gave just a hint of black smoke just as you engaged power after each gearchange…always a good sign… :smiling_imp:
70mph @ 1100 rpm, cruise at that speed all day long at 38 ton, much better gearing than ERF, seldom used anything lower than 4th on the 8 speed ranger box, it could pull from stall revs without the slightest murmer, they really don’t make 'em like that any more, and more’s the pity.

EDIT, forgot, had a proper Jake Brake too, fantastic bit of kit, don’t recall the brakes ever needed relining in my time.

A good turbo ■■■■■■■ you could barely hear the engine, just the turbo whistling gently, didn’t need a rev counter, you could drive by the sound of the turbo.

Most importantly, with good maintenance they simply never went wrong.

I’d love a proper Brit built lorry again with a proper engine under the bonnet, you can keep all this electronically controlled plastic european carp, and stick satans patented auto boxes where the sun don’t shine…glad i had the pleasure of the good days of ■■■■■■■■

You mention Vee and In-line of Daventry which IIRC was run by Denis Kulak ■■ He had previously been at The George Service Garage when we got to know him,great fella,you could write on the back of a stamp what that guy didn’t know about ■■■■■■■ !! Cheers Bewick.

Brilliant flint, and most of today’s engines are copies, which is funny really, volvos fl12 even had their version of a jake, and just has good, but talking to a fitter at my local erf dealers and asking why no more, he said emissions, but if that’s the case, what lorry in our green and pleasant land now is there to put a ■■■■■■■ in ?

Bewick:
You mention Vee and In-line of Daventry which IIRC was run by Denis Kulak ■■ He had previously been at The George Service Garage when we got to know him,great fella,you could write on the back of a stamp what that guy didn’t know about ■■■■■■■ !! Cheers Bewick.

Yes totally agree with you Dennis, think that sometimes he knew more than Darlington! Cheerio for now, (tommorows the 16th, and we can start hedge cutting… thank goodness, everything else is like a sponge)!

Saviem:

Bewick:
You mention Vee and In-line of Daventry which IIRC was run by Denis Kulak ■■ He had previously been at The George Service Garage when we got to know him,great fella,you could write on the back of a stamp what that guy didn’t know about ■■■■■■■ !! Cheers Bewick.

Yes totally agree with you Dennis, think that sometimes he knew more than Darlington! Cheerio for now, (tommorows the 16th, and we can start hedge cutting… thank goodness, everything else is like a sponge)!

Have you never heard of “set aside” Saviem? Are you not bothered about destroying the hedgerow habitat of the "Short legged,lesser spotted,Oo-me -goolies! bird? It is only found on the Prairies of Shropshire and around Ambridge village where you live !!!There is,I’m reliably informed by the RSPB only one breeding pair left and they are in that hedge you are going to “butcher” with flailing tines to-morrow !! You should be rightly ashamed of yourself my man ! Cheers Bewick.

Every big ■■■■■■■ straight six engine we encountered over the years has been superb. The 14 litre liked a big drink when working hard,but to be fair most were operated in the pre speed limiter days when everything on the road was driven to the limit. The 10 litre engines were easier on fuel,especially when runnning light. Both engines were fantastically reliable and made operators a decent living. I always liked the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ driveline. Any good driver could make good running ■■■■■■■ answer the call with a heavy load. I always liked the stacato beat of the ■■■■■■■ under load…always nice to listen to on a long pull.

One large bus company we deal with extensively,run a fleet of over 200 units in a local depot,and currently rebuild four or five engines annually(Volvo & Scania). When they ran ■■■■■■■ L10s in VanHool chassis,they only ever rebuilt two engines in twelve years. The fitters told me that drivers would arrive into the yard with the engines glowing red due the a burst water hose etc. They used to park them up and let them cool down overnight. The following morning,the offending water pipe was replaced and the engine replenished with coolant,and straight back to work. The ■■■■■■■ along with the Gardner and the Deutz air cooled were the only engines I saw to overheat and lock up…and then return to service once they had cooled down and had the overheating problem repaired.

Bruce Mallinson at pittsburghpower.com/ has been tuning these engines for over 30 years and regularly rebuilds them to over 800bhp. he has written hundreds of pages of information about them on his website.

In 1995,a good friend of mine had a new LHD Scania 143 450 with the 12 speed 'box…and as he used to say himself,he ‘could play a fine tune with it’. He was loading reels of paper in a mill in the Black Forest in Germany and got chatting to a Scottish driver with a Seddon Atkinson Strato and they both discussed running together to Calais. Dave struck off first and after about an hour into the trip decided the let the big Scania roll and show the Scottish man how its done. On a long pull he was giving the Scania everything it had pulling hard and getting ready to split down a gear,when the Seddon Atkinson pulled out from behind him and steadily rolled up alongside him…the cab of the SA gave a lurch as the driver changed up a gear and the exhaust stack lazily played ‘thump thump thump’ in typically relaxed ■■■■■■■ style as the driver saluted Dave as he sailed past and disappeared over the brow of the hill. He never did catch up on the Seddon Atkinson after that no matter how hard he pushed the 143. He reckoned the big ■■■■■■■ had to be pushing out at least 600bhp judging by the way it outpulled the 143 on that incline.

Bewick:
You mention Vee and In-line of Daventry which IIRC was run by Denis Kulak ■■ He had previously been at The George Service Garage when we got to know him,great fella,you could write on the back of a stamp what that guy didn’t know about ■■■■■■■ !! Cheers Bewick.

Couldn’t tell you if i met him or not, certainly the bloke who explianed about the injectors knew his stuff, i know V & IL had some good blokes though, my mate split the gearbox casing on a DB box on a Sed Ack 400 rolonoff down in High Wycombe around 1980/81, couple of V & IL’s lads came down in a van and changed that gearbox out in the elements in the freezing winter winds, snowing too…i put a row of 40 cu yard bins round them to keep the worse of the weather off, wonder if they make mechanics like that any more?

Bewick:

Saviem:

Bewick:
You mention Vee and In-line of Daventry which IIRC was run by Denis Kulak ■■ He had previously been at The George Service Garage when we got to know him,great fella,you could write on the back of a stamp what that guy didn’t know about ■■■■■■■ !! Cheers Bewick.

Yes totally agree with you Dennis, think that sometimes he knew more than Darlington! Cheerio for now, (tommorows the 16th, and we can start hedge cutting… thank goodness, everything else is like a sponge)!

Have you never heard of “set aside” Saviem? Are you not bothered about destroying the hedgerow habitat of the "Short legged,lesser spotted,Oo-me -goolies! bird? It is only found on the Prairies of Shropshire and around Ambridge village where you live !!!There is,I’m reliably informed by the RSPB only one breeding pair left and they are in that hedge you are going to “butcher” with flailing tines to-morrow !! You should be rightly ashamed of yourself my man ! Cheers Bewick.

No Dennis, we love birds,… Ive a good hatching of Swallows this year, they are a real delight, just like jet fighters in and out of the old buildings! We`ve a pair of Lapwings nesting on one of our fields, and so many Partridge, they should be filming the “Famous Grouse”,adverts here! And of course there are the “Cedrics”, our resident Pied Wagtails.

Only start cutting where we are pretty certain that the nests are empty, it never ceases to amaze me the sheer kilometerage of hedgrows that need cutting, and they look good when they are done, and with tonights rain, most things are off the menu!

Remember just how easy it was to up the power on ■■■■■■■■ There was an operator in Stoke on Trent, ERF LVs, 180s dark blue, on the China Clay job, tandem trailers with dropsides. One had been “doctored”, had a vertical exhaust, made a noise like ripping calico, when it passed you, (it only ever travelled at high speed), and each gearchange gave a little flash of flame from the exhaust. Been racking my brain for the name,… Mrs Davy keeps coming up, but I do`nt think that they were anything to do with A&H■■? Perhaps a native "Potter " will know. Boy could they shift over the ground! Im of to the land of nod, (to dream about KTs, now there really is a big, big engine from Columbus! Cheerio for now.

i drove a SA strato space cab fitted with 465bhp ■■■■■■■ 14 ltr lump doing european work, it never missed a beat.
there wasn’t many trucks that would pass you going up the mountains,
even going down the other side just put the old jake brake on stage 3 and let the engine do the rest,
shame they don’t build trucks for the uk market with this engine anymore.

Hi all my dad drove one of the first Bedford TM with an E 290 in . It was a great engine
Remember the sticker In the cab it said let it lug. It could go
Right low in the revs but still pull away . Tony

Best engine I have ever had for lugging When I worked for mrken his old man bless him played around with them quite well
I had a Transcon 350 a and a pair of E320 E14 that went well He also had a olympic and a ex Danny Mcgee Transcon that were pumped up to ■■■■ and out pulled all our Volvos and Scanias I liked them :slight_smile:

simply the best engines ever.
Saviem , this might have been the ERF part ex in antwerp, it had an early 335 in it,Never seen or heard of a ■■■■■■■ 335 before that in the UK, this would be around 1972/1973. my dad painted it when it was delivered and it went to Calor Gas transport in rushden., It was LHD and a really wide cab for the time , after a few bumps etc , they passed it onto Calor in Holland i believe. Apparently they loved it , outpulled anything they had.
It was one hell of a motor for the time.

Tony thats an ERF European all steel cab a real good motor not many sold in Britain but i remember the Frogs and Dagoes having quite a few.First ■■■■■■■ powered motor we had was a G reg ex Scottish and Newcastle ERF 180 hp 14 litre non turbo with Jake brake 6 speed David Brown box a really good fast reliable truck for its day. The 2 ERFs you can see on the M East thread were both M11s superb engines pull like a train, unfortunately electronc like all thr stuff now and somebodys comment on todays auto boxes never mind yesterdays so very true mate what a load of rubbish ,give me a clutch any day Ive got control of the truck then not some electronic brain. Regards Crow.

I drove the L10 in 275 and 325bhp levels, and found they idled too fast to get a decent gearchange from the get go. My 275 however had a new clutch brake fitted and was no trouble after that. Did anyone find they lost power after a year or so? Mine was done about 3 times in the 10 years Smiths owned it and Dads’ 325 was notorious for suddenly losing power output, many were happy when a new driver turned it over and wrote it off.

you’re right, the steel cab was a rare beast, but i did get actually get to own one a few years later, but only a 220 /roadranger. the 14 litre engines really were unbustable, we first had them in a couple of Guy big J’s on a finedon-blantyre overnight trunk around 1970/71, they replaced a scania 80 which just wasn’t up to it.
we ran a 205/6 spd zf in a Mk2 atkinson and a 250/ roadranger in a b series,and that b series was a really nice machine to drive, it certainly went and pulled better than the later Fiat 170/26’s we bought.i think it used to get around 7.5mpg on tilt work
i had a c series with the L10/250+eaton rtx, and ok it was never going to be a hill stormer at 38t , but she did the job ok,and i got around 8.5mpg running with a brick crane on the back.The 1 in 5 out of whitby (bluebell hill) was a challenge. it did go better when the gearbox was changed to the older RTO. i did have the exhaust brake plate come off the end of the spigot and drop into the manifold , sort of massive deceleration in the middle lane of the M1 at 65mph, i unbolted the thing and threw the plate over the hedge,then spent the next 20 minutes trying to find it. The L10 certainly was a lovely sounding engine.
Now ERF have gone and ■■■■■■■ dont do road going truck engines,and twin splitters are just a happy memory, I’m rather glad i dont drive trucks on a daily basis. I can see the logic in auto boxes ,(if you haven’t tried an allison gearbox behind a ■■■■■■■ engined DAF LF, you haven’t lived), it does take a certain something away. And all the european trucks, all electric, all auto, all computer,all the same, open door climb in , plug in , twist and go.

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Carryfast get back in the real world if Gardner had stayed where they started designing engines for powered sampans they might have stayed in, engine production their narrowed minded view that their engines didn t need a turbo coupled with the companysowners… cloth cap wide leather belt and clogs sounded the death bell for the British truck industry. Youcan call this a whinge if you like but i grew up in transport with my dad and uncles. The first artic I drove was a 1964 Dodge Perkins 354 nice truck compared to its identical spec Seddon which was rubbish. Guess what in 1968 the then Volvo dealer in Manchester gave the Co. i was working for an F86 demo, what a difference power steering heaters that worked synchro gearbox etc. etc .Even as late as 1975 Atki were still producing that bag of crap wood and fibreglass cab.bang your head getting in rip the arse out of your pants getting out go over a bump and the windscreen fell out.Back to L.K. Gardner of Patricroft Eccles who in there right mind would produce a straight 8 non turbo engine in a vain attempt to catch the competition.Dream on mate regards Crow.