BRS 2021: what would nationalisation look like?

[peggydeckboy]

Well written dennis,and yes as a ex BRS DRIVER 1969 1980 you are correct but that was what nationalization was about like all the other industries
we had in this country that all went to the wall, but so what why let one man make loads of money ,why not let everyone have a little slice of a easy good life.. look now ,where is the profit, we are all the same, work ,earn money, live ,if everything was nationalized now would it be better than all the private firms having problems..

[Dennis Javelin]

Well written dennis,and yes as a ex BRS DRIVER 1969 1980 you are correct but that was what nationalization was about like all the other industries
we had in this country that all went to the wall, but so what why let one man make loads of money ,why not let everyone have a little slice of a easy good life.. look now ,where is the profit, we are all the same, work ,earn money, live ,if everything was nationalized now would it be better than all the private firms having problems..

I'm all for everyone getting a fair share of the pot but it has to work both ways. Why should someone who puts in a good days work get the same pay as someone who slacks off at every opportunity? A strong union is not there just to protect the weak. It also should accept the responsibility for weeding out the bad apples (in conjunction with the management) so that the business survives for the benefit of the good workers. However, I also believe, that it is the responsibility of the management to help the union(s) in this task. Rather than confrontation there has to be co-operation. JawJaw not War War and all that.

Another problem that BRS suffered from was that when the industry was de-nationalised they were effectively left with the rump of the business. The only parts that were taken back into private control were the profitable operations. I'd like to say that the fact they remained in business for another 40 years was down to the management but it was due to various governments not having the bottle to deal with the problems. Whilst it is certainly true that the management didn't see the need to make a profit this was also the attitude of governments (of both hues). Even when the decision to privatise the business was made the government still made an arse of it. As far as I can recall the buyout price was £4m - the value of the land that was owned by the NFC group companies was over £120m. It goes to show how poorly managed the business was that they managed to burn through this windfall within 10 years.

So, in conclusion, a nationalised transport industry could only work if there was no competition and ALL the management was dedicated to the project. Unfortunately that's two things you would never have.

[ERF-NGC-European]

Well written dennis,and yes as a ex BRS DRIVER 1969 1980 you are correct but that was what nationalization was about like all the other industries
we had in this country that all went to the wall, but so what why let one man make loads of money ,why not let everyone have a little slice of a easy good life.. look now ,where is the profit, we are all the same, work ,earn money, live ,if everything was nationalized now would it be better than all the private firms having problems..

I'm all for everyone getting a fair share of the pot but it has to work both ways. Why should someone who puts in a good days work get the same pay as someone who slacks off at every opportunity? A strong union is not there just to protect the weak. It also should accept the responsibility for weeding out the bad apples (in conjunction with the management) so that the business survives for the benefit of the good workers. However, I also believe, that it is the responsibility of the management to help the union(s) in this task. Rather than confrontation there has to be co-operation. JawJaw not War War and all that.

Another problem that BRS suffered from was that when the industry was de-nationalised they were effectively left with the rump of the business. The only parts that were taken back into private control were the profitable operations. I'd like to say that the fact they remained in business for another 40 years was down to the management but it was due to various governments not having the bottle to deal with the problems. Whilst it is certainly true that the management didn't see the need to make a profit this was also the attitude of governments (of both hues). Even when the decision to privatise the business was made the government still made an arse of it. As far as I can recall the buyout price was £4m - the value of the land that was owned by the NFC group companies was over £120m. It goes to show how poorly managed the business was that they managed to burn through this windfall within 10 years.

So, in conclusion, a nationalised transport industry could only work if there was no competition and ALL the management was dedicated to the project. Unfortunately that's two things you would never have.

Some shrewd observations there! I'd just like to take the opportunity to thank all those who have responded to my original post. The union / management balance was always, it seems to me, a simpler balancing act in the manufacturing industry than the transport one.

[peggydeckboy]

Gentlemen this debate [as such] would read as far as my comments are concerned as if i was back then a [red, commie, socialist,]to be honest further from the truth in actual fact in 1963 i was actually in commie china ,up the yangste river their you did see what a one state commie country looked like and no way would,you ,me want to live like they did,you never fogot it.

So as a driver later on i was no way WAS I a red,or agitator,or strong union man because [i knew] they ,the union reds,hot heads, had no idea what communism was really like however i belived in a way of work THAT we were all equal,come to work do your shift then either go to digs or home, start at 8am finish before 6pm DAY WORK OR NIGHTS THEY WERE THE SAME, no rush for meeting dead lines Trunking was in before all theses HUBSsame differance,it got there when you did so long as you did not take the piss, loss of lorry earnings ,diesel,miles to the gallon ,nothing the way we worked equated to GREED IT WAS LIKE THE RAILWAY A WAY OF LIFE...AS THE YANKS SUPPOSEDLY SAY if it ant broke dont fixit.
If you were never within the BRS don't knock it becuase you will never know,it was the best apprentice ship you could have...dbp

[Carryfast]

Well written dennis,and yes as a ex BRS DRIVER 1969 1980 you are correct but that was what nationalization was about like all the other industries
we had in this country that all went to the wall, but so what why let one man make loads of money ,why not let everyone have a little slice of a easy good life.. look now ,where is the profit, we are all the same, work ,earn money, live ,if everything was nationalized now would it be better than all the private firms having problems..

If the workers say let's earn the maximum amount of return from the minimum possible amount of input that's called militancy and unproductive laziness which will run the firm into the ground and it's all their fault.

If you call it profit suddenly the same thing is good and the reason why the firm exists and it's only right to run the firm into the ground in the interests of maximising those returns.

[Carryfast]

Gentlemen this debate [as such] would read as far as my comments are concerned as if i was back then a [red, commie, socialist,]to be honest further from the truth in actual fact in 1963 i was actually in commie china ,up the yangste river their you did see what a one state commie country looked like and no way would,you ,me want to live like they did,you never fogot it.

So as a driver later on i was no way WAS I a red,or agitator,or strong union man because [i knew] they ,the union reds,hot heads, had no idea what communism was really like however i belived in a way of work THAT we were all equal,come to work do your shift then either go to digs or home, start at 8am finish before 6pm DAY WORK OR NIGHTS THEY WERE THE SAME, no rush for meeting dead lines Trunking was in before all theses HUBSsame differance,it got there when you did so long as you did not take the piss, loss of lorry earnings ,diesel,miles to the gallon ,nothing the way we worked equated to GREED IT WAS LIKE THE RAILWAY A WAY OF LIFE...AS THE YANKS SUPPOSEDLY SAY if it ant broke dont fixit.
If you were never within the BRS don't knock it becuase you will never know,it was the best apprentice ship you could have...dbp

Like you I realised that Socialism was a steaming pile of manure early on.

But I also realised that workers' solidarity isn't the same thing as Communism.It was just there to stop employers using their workers' wages as a race to the bottom tendering mechanism for getting work.
Also workers were just as justified in minimising their input for the maximum return as their bosses.Being employed doesn't remove the right to 'make a profit'.
Also if each worker does to much work that means less workers required and creates the worst of all worlds situation of an over supplied labour market putting downward pressure on wages.Which increases unemployement and lowers the tax take meaning higher taxes for those who are working.
While some of the strongest unions and highest wages were in the commy republic ......................of USA while Commy workers got totally shafted by their utopian regimes.

Remind us where all those highly paid western jobs went.Follow the money.

[peggydeckboy]

Carryfast,yes I agree with your comments,however ihave never had the politicial basic grounding, or even taken any intrest in the deep thoughts of why this or that will happen if this or that happens,

when I look back to My BRS days,I did as I was told,not question anything and why would you want to older experanced men had helped set up the working conditions their politics were probly never questions (by who)and why would they ,do not forget the them and us class system was still in society I shipped out with men who had experanced the horror of war at sea ,and there view on bosses management would drip feed into our way of working practices and as they say (you never rocked the boat) exactly the same as on BRS this is the way it is ...
look at John presscot miltant officer of the National union of sent to Oxford University to better himself,he was only one of thousands of union officers who had the same work ethic that was drip fed in to all most the majority of working men in the 1950s 1960s,1970,as i have said previously if you have never worked in a mass, nationalisd. industry whoever it is they will never get it as carryfast says follow the money,that's something the workers did not have a lot of.


Docks,ship yards,railways ,coal mines, steel works,all nationalised works had the same type of work ethic,I soon came in to contact with that work ethic in1960 within the National union of seaman that was(ZB em)management ,it was the then way of life,take what you can have a easy life...how many drivers years ago died of streesed never heard of,overweight,idleness,lots of beer swilling,a driver's right of passage.untill private haulage crept in ,profit,motoway systems were another killer of the
BRS depots.
to be honest I really do not give 2 monkeys what happens to transport I just ramble, I like thousands of others enjoyed BRS plus evenback then they had a pension scheme still paying out through DHL.

[windrush]

I think that BRS was OK from a drivers (or other staff) point of view, I know a couple of former drivers and they had all day to do what other firms did in half of one and were never pushed or hurried. One lad lived in Brighton and when on his way back from Scotch was told to phone in from Doncaster to see about return loads. Several times he was sent back 'over the border' again to collect from not far away from where he had tipped. Mind you, former employees have told me that one local haulage company was like that as well so not just common to BRS!

Now wether the hauliers, many who had built their fleets up from nothing and then had them taken away from them when BRS was formed, thought it a good thing or not I have no idea but I can imagine that some protested but for others on their 'uppers' and running a load of crap it may well have done them a favour? Long before my time though, and I'm guessing that it was before most lads on here's time as well. Would a new 'Nationlised' fleet obtain their vehicles in a similar way?

Pete.

[Carryfast]

Now wether the hauliers, many who had built their fleets up from nothing and then had them taken away from them when BRS was formed, thought it a good thing or not I have no idea but I can imagine that some protested but for others on their 'uppers' and running a load of crap it may well have done them a favour? Long before my time though, and I'm guessing that it was before most lads on here's time as well. Would a new 'Nationlised' fleet obtain their vehicles in a similar way?

Pete.

Realistically the intention was an experiment in Communist style economics.The government wanted collective politburo control of the whole operation.

When Nationalisation should just mean 0% interest state funded finance and bail outs to cover the bad times or replacement and depreciation costs as and when required.In a protected marketplace road transport friendly environment which also stops race to the bottom competitive practices so minimum rates, with realistic corporate taxation then put on the profits to fund it.

So what did the government do let's limit productivety with stupid vehicle dimensions and gross weight limits.With punitive road fuel taxation and allow race to the bottom competitive practices and leave it subject to the mercies of the zb bankers for its investment requirements.That'll fix it.

[hayday]

Well the 26mph would be about right now for the smart motorways (pre lockdown of course!) I suppose they could ressurect the BRS name but a more politically correct "Brexit Road Services" would fit nicer. Can someone get me a form please? I'm ok for Monday - Friday (but not every Friday) Ta.

[Wheel Nut]

To understand a lot of the waffle we need to go back in history, 150 years back to be helpful. Every village and town had a selection of trades and professions, some are still in business, farmers, butchers, bakers, shopkeepers, blacksmiths, shoemakers, publicans and carriers. It is the last two that are very important. The Carrier had an agreement with a Publican that he would be there on a certain day, the same carrier would let the other traders know that he was going to the Publicans address on that day, so they would take their eggs, milk, wool, pigs, sheep, sausages, bacon, bread, buckets, tools, fire grates, boots and shoes to the carrier, he would take them to the pub, at that pub was another carrier who was going to the next town to another pub, they would exchange their goods and return home with flour, leather, clothing, animal feed, glass bottles etc.

This worked well and these carriers had set up a network so the farmers wool could be in Bradford within a week. The railways came, the carriers still visited the pubs, but they would go off and collect stuff from the railway station, the pubs became a distribution centre, the businessmen met and sold their wares to a bigger market. There were several wars that interrupted the villagers lives. The canals were opening up, barges were covering huge distances but the express carrier could beat them.

Then came the great war, thousands of mothers lost their husbands, sons and were forced to carry on as before, many soldiers had learned to drive and repair vehicles, the wartime vehicles were sold off to the general public who used them. More carriers appeared, more routes were opened up and business grew.

"In the short time at our disposal this evening, we thought it would be convenient if we concentrated attention upon the problems of the free road hauliers—that section of the road haulage industry which is not yet nationalised. It is a branch of the industry to which far too little attention has been paid so far. It is not a small branch. The lorries in the hands of the free road hauliers are two or three times the number of those in the hands of the Road Haulage Executive. It is, therefore, no minor or insignificant section of our economy which we discuss in the few hours before 10 o'clock."

Long-distance road haulage was taken over by the 1947 Act, but there were certain exceptions to the take-over. There was, for example, the short-distance haulier. Such a man may operate his lorries within a narrow radius of 25 miles. If he is unfortunate enough to live on the coast, he has only half of that circle in which to carry on his trade. (That is the A & B licence)

For any journey or traffic beyond that radius he has to apply for a permit, (C Licence) not to an independent tribunal but to his principal competitor, the British Transport Commission. That was the legislation which was inflicted upon us by the Socialist majority in the last Parliament. In addition, there are certain traffics, notably the carriage of livestock, household removals, the bulk carriage of liquids and a few others of that character, which were not included in the take-over, but the Government have to some extent encroached upon them because some of the firms which they took over, like Pickford's, had branches engaged upon these traffics.

By 1951 the Transport Executive realised how much money they were losing, so they cherry picked the best work and offered vehicles and depots to these free hauliers, keeping the profitable ones off the 1955 list. This also meant that the good BRS managers left taking good drivers, work, wagons and warehouses with them, it didnt take long for the house of cards to collapse. It began like the bully taking over your little gang. The bully ended up with a lot of ineffective gang members. BRS ended up with weak management, lazy drivers and poor paying work.

[peggydeckboy]

HA -erERF-NGC-EUROPEAN,you new what you were resurrecting the old B.R.S. subject po at lest BEWICK and Buzzer have stuck to their views from years ago .

Wheelnut thank you for the abridged version of the 1948 transport act..all the railways,19 canals 246 road haulage firms all under the British transport commission.:The road transport executive: were agents for the "central transport consultative committee". Basically none of the ordinary workers whatever industry they were in, never stood a chance,so why would you, or even me, go and knock your nuts out for who, government ministers, whoo probably never did days manual in their lives...there is my answer to LAZY drivers..

also if yourself had been involved in a BRS DEPOT you would have done as you were told,at the interview with the manager " forget what you have done in the past you work as we say do asv your told and have a job for life with a pension... "once i had got the job i was never covered in cow [zb] again, nice blue overhauls.if going from 15+hours a day, to maybe 9or10 was rare, nice and clean clolthes, digs booked before you left the depot how bad was that.dbp.

[Wheel Nut]

HA -erERF-NGC-EUROPEAN,you new what you were resurrecting the old B.R.S. subject po at lest BEWICK and Buzzer have stuck to their views from years ago .

Wheelnut thank you for the abridged version of the 1948 transport act..all the railways,19 canals 246 road haulage firms all under the British transport commission.:The road transport executive: were agents for the "central transport consultative committee". Basically none of the ordinary workers whatever industry they were in, never stood a chance,so why would you, or even me, go and knock your nuts out for who, government ministers, whoo probably never did days manual in their lives...there is my answer to LAZY drivers..

also if yourself had been involved in a BRS DEPOT you would have done as you were told,at the interview with the manager " forget what you have done in the past you work as we say do asv your told and have a job for life with a pension... "once i had got the job i was never covered in cow [zb] again, nice blue overhauls.if going from 15+hours a day, to maybe 9or10 was rare, nice and clean clolthes, digs booked before you left the depot how bad was that.dbp.

If you want to shift cows, you need a good cowman, if your shifting pigs, employ a good pigman.

The question was asked what BRS would look like if it was reintroduced next year, my answer would be much the same as the last one.

From your 246 haulage firms BRS only wanted to keep 76 places open, they offered 149 depots including vehicles to other hauliers. It didn't take the government long to realise their experiment was an abject failure.

You can apply here:

A booklet describing the arrangements was published on Wednesday. It is entitled
"Road Haulage Disposal in England and Wales," and copies can be obtained from the
Road Haulage Disposal Board,
Clive House,
Petty France,
London, S.W.I,

or the
British Transport Commission,
222 Marylebone Road,
London, N.W.1.

I appreciate there was quite a lot of overlap as haulage company's had built up where the work was, so having depots in Rotherhithe and Greenwich, Thornaby, Middlesbrough and Stockton could be understood. but the traffic in those areas were so different. Fruit. Timber, Chemicals. Steel. etc.

[Dennis Javelin]

To understand a lot of the waffle we need to go back in history, 150 years back to be helpful. Every village and town had a selection of trades and professions, some are still in business, farmers, butchers, bakers, shopkeepers, blacksmiths, shoemakers, publicans and carriers. It is the last two that are very important. The Carrier had an agreement with a Publican that he would be there on a certain day, the same carrier would let the other traders know that he was going to the Publicans address on that day, so they would take their eggs, milk, wool, pigs, sheep, sausages, bacon, bread, buckets, tools, fire grates, boots and shoes to the carrier, he would take them to the pub, at that pub was another carrier who was going to the next town to another pub, they would exchange their goods and return home with flour, leather, clothing, animal feed, glass bottles etc.

This worked well and these carriers had set up a network so the farmers wool could be in Bradford within a week. The railways came, the carriers still visited the pubs, but they would go off and collect stuff from the railway station, the pubs became a distribution centre, the businessmen met and sold their wares to a bigger market. There were several wars that interrupted the villagers lives. The canals were opening up, barges were covering huge distances but the express carrier could beat them.

Then came the great war, thousands of mothers lost their husbands, sons and were forced to carry on as before, many soldiers had learned to drive and repair vehicles, the wartime vehicles were sold off to the general public who used them. More carriers appeared, more routes were opened up and business grew.

"In the short time at our disposal this evening, we thought it would be convenient if we concentrated attention upon the problems of the free road hauliers—that section of the road haulage industry which is not yet nationalised. It is a branch of the industry to which far too little attention has been paid so far. It is not a small branch. The lorries in the hands of the free road hauliers are two or three times the number of those in the hands of the Road Haulage Executive. It is, therefore, no minor or insignificant section of our economy which we discuss in the few hours before 10 o'clock."

Long-distance road haulage was taken over by the 1947 Act, but there were certain exceptions to the take-over. There was, for example, the short-distance haulier. Such a man may operate his lorries within a narrow radius of 25 miles. If he is unfortunate enough to live on the coast, he has only half of that circle in which to carry on his trade. (That is the A & B licence)

For any journey or traffic beyond that radius he has to apply for a permit, (C Licence) not to an independent tribunal but to his principal competitor, the British Transport Commission. That was the legislation which was inflicted upon us by the Socialist majority in the last Parliament. In addition, there are certain traffics, notably the carriage of livestock, household removals, the bulk carriage of liquids and a few others of that character, which were not included in the take-over, but the Government have to some extent encroached upon them because some of the firms which they took over, like Pickford's, had branches engaged upon these traffics.

By 1951 the Transport Executive realised how much money they were losing, so they cherry picked the best work and offered vehicles and depots to these free hauliers, keeping the profitable ones off the 1955 list. This also meant that the good BRS managers left taking good drivers, work, wagons and warehouses with them, it didnt take long for the house of cards to collapse. It began like the bully taking over your little gang. The bully ended up with a lot of ineffective gang members. BRS ended up with weak management, lazy drivers and poor paying work.

Irrespective of the profitability (or not) of the road haulage part of the state owned group in 1951 it was a central plank of the Conservative manifesto to return road transport (along with steel) to the private sector in the run up to the 1951 election. The concept of a nationalised, joined up transport network in the UK was strangled pretty much at birth due to the political ideology of the day. The BRS group was an easy target as it could be dissected into small enough parts that could be made attractive to the private sector - especially when you could identify the profitable operations and sell them off piecemeal. If that could have been done with the railways and steel then they would have been sold off then as well at that point in time. It's only my opinion but the government probably thought that the remaining parts of the BRS group would "wither on the vine" and disappear with the customer base then being forced to use the newly privatised operations. When it became evident that the private hauliers were not interested in picking up any more work the government had to stand by the group. A couple of years later Churchill has gone (he was really only a figurehead for the 51-55 government anyway) and we then became embroiled in the middle east through the Suez crisis. Having supported the "runt of the litter" for 4 years it was probably by then more politically expedient to keep BRS going than to let them die.

The loss of the profitable branches left the BRS group with a disjointed network, with lots of branches spread throughout the country. The subsequent creation of the regional divisions, all with their own particular vehicle preferences and purchasing strategies, prevented the group from achieving a standardised fleet and the fleet discounts that this would have provided. God only knows what the management costs were within these groups. I can only speak of my experiences within Scotland but the amount of staff that the head office had was baffling. Each regional MD seemed to treat his division as a personal fiefdom. Centralised control - the whole point of nationalisation - was replaced by a number of divisions each operating as separate entities. Even when I joined them in the 70's the fleet diversity within the operating companies was staggering. It was almost as if they simply bought what was available at the time rather than having a planned replacement programme. The one thing that they had however was the property portfolio. Most NFC branches were located within towns in what would later become very sought after locations but these were not as desirable in the 60's and 70's. The new roads network not only bypassed towns it bypassed the (by now) NFC. The amount of dead time that was encountered simply reaching the national roads network must have been huge. By the time it was possible to dispose of the old inefficient depots and relocate it was too late. The industry had moved on with the likes of the TDG and United Transport being the preferred haulier of the big manufacturers. The NFC had it's loyal band of customers but as these were swallowed up by the conglomerates there was nothing to replace them with. The end was inevitable.

[ChrisArbon]

As Peggydeckboy rightly says, you had to work for BRS to appreciate the good job that it was for drivers. In my experience; the management was no worse or no better than many other companies I have worked for; some of which have gone bankrupt due to bad management. It's a pity there are not failed hauliers and useless transport managers on this forum who could tell us about sub-contracting work at unprofitable rates, chasing payment of unpaid bills, falling foul of the ministry, having an uncooperative bank manager, failing to pay income tax and NI to the Inland Revenue, buying over-specced vehicles that they can't pay for and doing favours for people in the belief that they would be returned. None of which could be levelled at BRS management.

[peggydeckboy]

NO MORE TO SAID CHRISARBON SPOT ON...my case has rested, sometimes it needs just a spark of truth well put, not taken from Wikipedia to be believed and you have just said that this house retires from the debate...through the YES lobby...dbp

[hotel magnum]

twice I put my foot in it the first time when applying for a spanners job at brs in poole, I was asked where I wanted to be in 10 years time and I said sat where you are, the second was at pickfords Romsey as an owner driver after (luckily unloading) whilst having a cup of tea the warehouse men were discussing the privatisation and I said that's you lot done for you will have to work for your living now, it was quite a lively tea break after that,

[ERF-NGC-European]

twice I put my foot in it the first time when applying for a spanners job at brs in poole, I was asked where I wanted to be in 10 years time and I said sat where you are, the second was at pickfords Romsey as an owner driver after (luckily unloading) whilst having a cup of tea the warehouse men were discussing the privatisation and I said that's you lot done for you will have to work for your living now, it was quite a lively tea break after that,

[Wheel Nut]

NO MORE TO SAID CHRISARBON SPOT ON...my case has rested, sometimes it needs just a spark of truth well put, not taken from Wikipedia to be believed and you have just said that this house retires from the debate...through the YES lobby...dbp

None of my post came from Wikipedia and I hope to god there are no 90 year olds still driving lorries. My info came from the trade press of the day and HANSARD which is a true record, hardly a spark!

BRS Failed, simple as, NFC failed.

When the RHA could command their high membership costs.

The whole tone of the Commission's notice sought to convey the impression that when B.R.S. reduced their fleet to about a tenth of its present strength, that which would be offered in its place might not suit their present customers. For a short time there might be a few difficulties, but independents would quickly take up any slack.

"It is against the intentions of the Transport Act that B.R.S,, should be making these strenuous efforts to retain every ton of traffic, obviously with the idea of turning themselves into a gigantic clearing house,"
Mr. Winterbottom declared.

"The Commission are at present engaged, along with the Disposal Board, in an endeavour to sell back something like 90 per cent. of their vehicles; and private concerns who purchase them expect, and intend, to obtain the traffic direct. "To me it appears that B.R.S. are attempting to persuade industrial concerns that because it may be easier to telephone one B.R.S. depot to place all their traffic, they should continue to do so. This would allow that depot to pick the best of the traffic for whatever vehicles they were allowed to retain and to sub-contract the balance.

"Surely no industrial concern, or its traffic manager, working under competitive conditions, would subscribe to such an arrangement when restrictions on the industry are to be lifted and independent operators will again be able to compete in all fields. Much depends on the users of road transport in the next two years and if B.R.S. do retain in the coming months much of that traffic which should have gone with the vehicles they are selling, this will make the sale of later units more difficult."

The one shop stop didn't work then, it doesn't work now!

Turners of Soham
DHL
Stobart
Keedwell
Abbey
Maritime
Interbulk

[gingerfold]

^^^^^^^^
Of your seven companies listed above and if you take profitability as a measure of their success, (that is pre-Coronavirus), then three of the above are successful, and three are bankrupt in all but name. The other one is just about profitable. Size alone is no measure of success or otherwise. Two of the successful ones are foreign owned. The third successful one, British owned, is debt-free with every vehicle and trailer paid for at purchase.

[Dennis Javelin]

"To me it appears that B.R.S. are attempting to persuade industrial concerns that because it may be easier to telephone one B.R.S. depot to place all their traffic, they should continue to do so. This would allow that depot to pick the best of the traffic for whatever vehicles they were allowed to retain and to sub-contract the balance.

Effectively this was exactly what the Government was offering the private sector - the opportunity to only select the good bits.

[Wheel Nut]

^^^^^^^^
Of your seven companies listed above and if you take profitability as a measure of their success, (that is pre-Coronavirus), then three of the above are successful, and three are bankrupt in all but name. The other one is just about profitable. Size alone is no measure of success or otherwise. Two of the successful ones are foreign owned. The third successful one, British owned, is debt-free with every vehicle and trailer paid for at purchase.

Oh I agree.

Tankfreight, Pickfords, BRS / EXEL NFC Salvesen, morphed into DHL through various acquisitions like Tibbett & Britten, Deutsche Post, (Foreign) (Struggling)

Russell Davies, Rentokil, Securicor, BET, United, Haniel aka Interbulk (Den Hartogh) (Foreign) (Profit)

Keedwell appear to be recovering with Stuart reevaluating. (Struggling) Independent

Stobart - Smoke and Mirrors (Struggling)

Maritime John W is probably going to have to rethink his container business, there will be a lot of stock that people cannot pay for.

Abbey supported by hungry vultures. (Profit) Independent

Turners has a reasonable margin in comparison. Mr Day seems to have his finger on the pulse. (Profit) Independent

Where are they now?

BOC Distribution Services became Gist
Christian Salvesen
Hays (Hays Logistics)
NFC (including Exel Logistics)
Ocean Group (MSAS and McGregor Cory)
Tibbett and Britten
Transport Development Group
Unigate (Wincanton)

and now?

BOC – acquired by Linde 2006
Christian Salvesen – acquired in 2007 by Norbert Dentressangle
Hays (Hays Logistics) – Hays Logistics spun off as ACR 2004 to Platinum Equity Group; acquired by Kuehne + Nagel 2005
NFC (including Exel Logistics) – merged with Ocean Group 2000 to form Exel
Ocean Group (MSAS and McGregor Cory) – merged with NFC to become Exel 2000; acquired by Deutsche Post 2005
Tibbett and Britten – acquired by Exel 2004
Transport Development Group – acquired by Laxey Investment Trust 2008; sold to Norbert Dentressangle 2010
Unigate (Wincanton) – Wincanton spun off 2001; still independent.

A week is a long time in politics, in transport 20 years goes past like a lightening strike.

[gingerfold]

Wrong post

[gingerfold]

^^^^^^^^^^^

A good summary, the only company I think you have wrong is Abbey. It's not independent, it is owned by a venture capital company. Huge debts, massive losses, its investment company owners are constantly injecting money to keep it afloat. Even the auditors commented on the last published accounts for Abbey that they are in a questionable situation for continued trading.

If the lock down continues for another few weeks then its impossible to guess the state of the road transport industry come Autumn. Whatever happens I don't believe that it will be a V-shaped recovery.

[Wheel Nut]

^^^^^^^^^^^

A good summary, the only company I think you have wrong is Abbey. It's not independent, it is owned by a venture capital company. Huge debts, massive losses, its investment company owners are constantly injecting money to keep it afloat. Even the auditors commented on the last published accounts for Abbey that they are in a questionable situation for continued trading.

If the lock down continues for another few weeks then its impossible to guess the state of the road transport industry come Autumn. Whatever happens I don't believe that it will be a V-shaped recovery.

If the Axle comes off, you may be right. The directors of the venture capital company are the main directors & Managers of Abbey.

[gingerfold]

Wrong post...again