WILLEME

Willeme L10 from the beginning of 50th.

Here is a page from Commercial Motor’s report on the 1960 Brussels Show:

What was the story behind the Unic-Willeme collaboration? How did this sit alongside Willeme’s tie-up with AEC?

The story between Unic and Willeme did’nt last a long time, just 1959 and 1960.After that,Willeme did a link with AEC buying engines and later selling the small range of BMC lorries under its name in France.
This agreement lasted towards 1970 when financial difficulties forced the manufacturer to halt production.
A firm named Perez and Raimond bought the rights and carried on manufacturing some big tractors for abnormal loads with mostly ■■■■■■■ engines.

A UW 610 Unic-Willeme with “Horizon” Cottard cab from 1960.

michel:
The story between Unic and Willeme did’nt last a long time, just 1959 and 1960.After that,Willeme did a link with AEC buying engines and later selling the small range of BMC lorries under its name in France.
This agreement lasted towards 1970 when financial difficulties forced the manufacturer to halt production.
A firm named Perez and Raimond bought the rights and carried on manufacturing some big tractors for abnormal loads with mostly ■■■■■■■ engines.

Merci pour l’ éducation, Michel. It looks as though AEC muscled Unic out of the frame. With hindsight, the three of them might have been better off as a group. Unic may have remained strong enough to resist the clutches of Fiat, and the other two would have got a decent V8 engine! Taking the speculation a bit further, the whole lot might have been a bit too big for Leyland to swallow. The three firms seemed to have the makings of a competitive, independent European company, between them.

Evening all, ah, the short and not so sweet Unic Willeme arrangement 1959/1960, a short period, but with an interesting story. Along side the end of Willemes own engine production,( and their straight 8 cylinder 18litre was magnificent, as was the identical bore and stroke 6 cylinder 13litre 518 series at 190hp, although the turbocharged 255hp T series were less so), and just predating the AEC tie up. Unic products were not quite in the league of Bernard, and Willeme, but reliable, and the engines had Saurer injection equipment.(For a short time Unic had built and marketed under licence the Swiss Saurer lorry alongside its own products.)

The conventional Unic Willeme “Shark nose” tractors were distinguishable by their four headlights. As a product range the Unic Willemes were not a great success, neither “fish nor fowl” comes to mind. But then Unic were eaten by Simca, and both by Fiat. Willeme itself has a fascinating history, and produced some magnificent vehicles, both for the normal road going market, and also off road and oilfield work, and perhaps the best European Heavy Haulage chassis of its time in the TG range of multiaxles.

I hope that michel can raid his photograph collection for some examples!For this could be a most interesting thread.

Cheerio for now.

Well preserved Willeme 6x4 in Normandy.

The famous “shark nose” which was launched in 1952.

Evening Gentlemen, perhaps it would be of use to give a little background to this most interesting and iconic of French lorry builders.

Louis Willeme was made redundant by the struggling French luxury and sports car builder Gregoire in 1923, and despite offers to run his families restaurant business, (shades of my late friend , Antoine Loheac here), his heart was in lorries. France post WW1 was awash with surplus military vehicles, and Louis was drawn toward the US built Liberty chassis. Very strong in design, and having a Renault designed and very robust rear axle.

Willemes prime aim was to re-engineer these vehicles, (which were available very cheaply), to suit civilian needs, and to dismantle a sufficient quantity to provide spare parts support). Many were fitted with the advanced underfloor hydraulic tipping gear developed by Louis friend Eduard Bernard, (later to build Gardner engines under licence for his superb Bernard lorries).

The need for more economical operation led Louis to fit French manufactured CLM diesel engines, (a licence built German Junkers design). This led to the creation in 1930, of the radical Willeme DG30 , a permanently coupled articulated design, powered by a 3 cylinder CLM diesel of 85hp, with a gross weight of 45tonnes, and potential payload of 35tonnes!

The legislaters were horrified at this mammoth, for it would take traffic from the railways…so they legislated against it in 1934 by introducing pro rail legislation, similar to the UK. But Willemes “love” of heavy vehicles was established, eventually to result in the 1000tonne TG of the 1970s!

But its getting late, and I have an early start, (before the Lark), so maybe I will continue the story tommorow, for Willeme has a tremendous story to relate.

Cheerio for now.

A Liberty-Willeme.

Hi michel, a while back I wrote to Dave Fawcett for permission to use his truck photos on TruckNetUK, so, one or two for you.
Cheers
Oily

TD WillemeLD610 TBH  6cyl 518T6 190hp  1960 to 66  6173_700w.jpg

TD Willeme-AEC TL101 Montech Yard 1989 4637_700w.jpg

TD Willeme with AEC LF 202 MC  7754_700w.jpg

Another three.
Oily

TD Willeme RD615 DT 1962 with Kaiser 45ton trailer 8723_700w.jpg

TD Willeme Thornycroft  Nubian with Rolls Royce B81 235hp petrol engine 1964  6491_700w.jpg

RD 201 6x4 with AEC engine.

Evening all, michel, oiltreader, superb images, and so evocative.

But before we go back to the 30s, Louis had obtained in 1923 the licence to build the 10.6litre Deutz German diesel engine. This first appeared in the 1930 DZ12, for 12tonne payload, having a twin range 8speed gearbox, and 45kph potential. Then came in 1934 the revolutionary Road/Rail artic, DG14/20 for 20tonne payload.

So we are back in the 30s, and Louis needed more power than the CLMs could give, and the 18litre 225hp 8cylinder Deutz was the answer. The latter was used in the “Dragon Waggon” like 1939 tractor for 70tonne payload, complete with rear steering low load twin axle trailer, the whole outfit having a full air brake system.

During WW2, the Willeme operation was relocated south to family owned facility at Argenton sur Creuse, Chabenet, but requsitioned by the Germans.

Post war Willeme designed and manufactured its own engine, a 15.6litre 150hp unit, designated 517P6. This was fitted into 4x2 L10 19tonne chassis, (over 2000 were built up to 1950), and the articulated DU12 for 26tonne operation. By 1948, the 517P6 was uprated to 165hp, then came the 517P8, an 18litre 8cylinder unit of 225hp. Massive power in those days. In 1949 Willeme provided the Portugese Electricity authority, SCAC, with a 200tonne 8wheel articulated outfit , coupled to a 3 inline axle rear steer trailer, fitted with the 517P8 engine.

But by 1952 Willeme were loosing ground to their main rival Berliet, in terms of cab design. Their answer, the avant-garde Pelpel designed “Shark Nose”. Fully insulated, with easy engine access via the opening bonnet, and sitting on top of the newly developed from the 517P6, the 518P6 @175hp, having belt driven air compressor, three fuel filters, and rechangeable oil filter. Driving via a twin plate clutch, to a revolutionary 6speed overdrive gearbox. Available in rigid, 615RC, artic tractor, 610LCT, or 6wheeled form, 615RC.

Because Willeme saw its natural competition as Berliet, the Willeme range ran parallel to Berliet, including heavy off road Dump trucks, and Oilfield type vehicles. But this rivalry drove Willeme to develop a “lighter” range to offer in parellel with the "shark noses". This was the driver for the Willeme Unics, from 59 to 60/61.

Unic were not perceived as being as strong/premium chassis as Willeme, Benard, or Berliet. Yet their products were well built, had light controls, (PAS, air splitters on the gearboxes, which were synchromesh. In `57 they had started to name their models, eg, Izoard, Auvergn, Galibier, and were the first to introduce a “real” comprehensive 12month warranty.

The Willeme Unics were fitted with derivatives of the Unic RB6ZU122 engine at , 90,110, 130, and 150hp, driving through synchromesh Unic gearboxes, rather than the heavier ZF as the 518 engined Willemes. Shark Noses had a four headlight set up, and cab overs were fitted with the new “Horizon” cab in day and sleeper form. The impact of this most handome cab cannot be understated. Built by Cottard at Bourg en Bresse, in 1960 it was sensational, (look at the UK equivalents for a comparison)! But sales were slow, the customers perceived these “new” Willemes as poor cousins, and by 61, nothing more was sold.

The heavier LD ranges were selling well, but Willeme introduced a turbocharged version of th 518T6, the 518T6c AT 255HP, (out HPing Berliets TLM 200hp offering). It promised much, but in terms of reliability, it, (as so many early attempts at turbocharging), delivered little. The performance, and “driveability” were sensational, when they were working! And sales began to drop.

The “brutal” looking Sahara W8SAT range, fitted with a flat panel Geneva built cab, (as michels image of the restored Tpts Chatel red W8, powered by the 18litre 518.8 straight eight sold well, but the volume market offering the LD, either as a Horizon, or the now becoming dated Shark Nose were loosing market share, and the problems with the 255 turbo were costing dearly! So Willeme approached a volume “loose engine” producer, already established in the Benelux, AEC to provide power units.

AEC, could provide more, already in South America they marketed BMC products, and this would truly give Willeme the depth of market coverage that they desired, from 3.5tonnes to 13tonnes, then pure Willeme from 19 to 38, then 100 to 300tonnes. The contract was signed just prior to Leyland taking over AEC, and it was signed between ACS, of Southall, England, and Etablissements Willeme, of Nanterre Seine. NOT between ACV, or AEC, and was primarily for the supply of 690 11 litre 200hp, and 13 litre 230hp units. Later would come the BMC marketing agreement, the rows with Leyland, the Belgian sourced Monarchs, and the Ergomatic saga, and then the sad final demise!

I`ve not forgotten my beloved TG range, the crazy stance of Leyland,or the legacy of Willeme, but I have to get my tea, and a large Bollinger ,(or two), and toast the memory of Willeme, a superb manufacturer, truly, “the King of the Heavies”!!!

Cheerio for now, and please keep those photographs coming!

Brilliant resume of the company Saviem, you knowledge is truly awe inspiring. Keep it up please.

gingerfold:
Brilliant resume of the company Saviem, you knowledge is truly awe inspiring. Keep it up please.

I second that…truly encyclopaedic knowledge of camion de francais (excuse schoolboy french but it was a helluva long time ago)
The reward, Saviem, is this to savour youtu.be/6DCaDGH_2mA and to get full screen click extreme bottom right corner, to return click Esc top left of keyboard.
Cheers
Oily

The cab of the “Shark Nose” was built by " Carrosserie de Levallois" close to Paris who also built cabs for Citroen lorries.
They have a same shape.

You could see !

Evening all, well more rain, the grass is drooping, will we ever now make Hay? The rain is beating on the top of this old tin barn, it is like living inside a drum!! And the Partridges are doing their best to shelter their chicks, but everywhere is so cold and miserable, so I do not think that I shall linger long, for I am instructed that my tea is almost ready, so a few more quick thoughts of Willeme.

Thank you for the kind words, but we should thank michel, and oiltreader for the photographs that show the real image and presence of Willeme. Oiltreader, that is a lovely clip of the preserved Dessirer H Zucconi TG200, 8x4 200tonner. Zucchoni, from Vitry, Seine also had a Berliet TBO, with a 335 ■■■■■■■■ and that looked quite small alongside their TG300, 8x8 300tonner, which had a ■■■■■■■ KTA19litre @600hp. Both were engaged on moving various heavy bits of the expanding French Nuclear Industry, often double headed, plus pusher unit. Zucconi operated three TGs. (In terms of “status”, Zucconi rate alongside, and equal to the UKs Wynn`s, for followers of French Heavy Haulage).

I make no secret of the fact that I rate the Willeme TG, (and later licence built PRP, and MOL derivatives, as the finest European Heavy Haulage design , years ahead of its time. I spent several months (fruitless) evaluation of the PRP derivatives as part of the Saviem team tasked with evaluating the value of the product as an “add on” to our range in 74. But then came our marriage to Venissieux! And as a consequence perhaps the chance of the best "heavy hitter" coming into the Regies control was lost.

Available in two 6x4 versions, TG100,&150, 100, &150tonnes, The TG200, 8x4 200tonnes, and TG250, 250tonner, Then the TG300 , 8x8, 300 to 1000 tonnes, …yes 1000tonnes. Power by Detroit Diesel, V8, V10,and V12, also ■■■■■■■ KTA 19litre at 600hp plus. All had Transmission by Allison/Clark, driving to SOMA, Mercedes, or Mack bogies. Cab, of truly grand crew living proportions by Pelpel, of Rennes. The driving position was perfectly designed, and the exterior vision made these enormous machines easy to place on the road. True to Louis Willemes design ethos, that to move heavy weights, the vehicle must make the work “easy” for the driver! Every control fell to hand, and the exterior “daunting” size of the vehicle shrank once seated behind that steering wheel!

Many of the Detroit examples were re engined with ■■■■■■■ during their long working life. From memory some of the operators in France who ran TGs, Europe Trans x1, Tpt Mayer,x4, Zucconi x 3,Tpts Robinx1, my friends at Tpts Stag x 4, Cayon x1, SITCA-Cochez x1, MKTS Nancy x3, Pierre Cussonneaux x 1, Scales x3, and my favourite Heavy operator , Tpts Scalex,x 7. I have in my old office a framed photograph of Tpt Scalex`s TBO Berliet, heading up their 8x4 TG200, and 8x8 TG300, with the other TG300 pushing at the back, all in their red white and blue livery…that is some horsepower, and the print is signed by all of the crews! My statistics from memory do not include those sent to China, or the military PRP Cruesot Loire Ampiroll tank carrying version! Nor MOLs vehicles, or the supposedly Spanish built Trabosa version, (that sported MOLs Mammoth on its badge)! Or the early 1960s TGs sold in Belgium, one of which was certainly AEC Powered ! Or my dear friend Phillipe Brames, from Colmar articulated TG with ■■■■■■■ power, and non standard cab.(Which I hope has been preserved along with his old Berliet TBO). Now that machine has carried some unbelievable weights!

Willeme succomed to financial insolvency in 1970, the reasons for which, including the disasterous, and stupid about face of Leyland, perhaps I may write about at a later date. But to conclude the TG story, the Receivers granted Pirez et Raimond of Paris, long time Detroit Deisel Allison French agents to continue manufacturing under licence the TG range, and some (quite) odd derivatives of the LD 6 wheel range. This they did untill the oil crisis of the 70s forced them from business in 73/74. The design rights being obtained by Belgiums MOL, (and sadly not by Saviem), and formed the basic design paramaters of many of their specialist vehicles still available today.

Oiltreader, you are responsible for me unloading some of my memories of the TGs, that clip set me off down memory lane! I was going to write a little about the Willeme AECs, and Willeme BMCs, their 400plus Dealers, and just how popular these AEC engined lorries were in France.

Now next to the TG clip is one from “Des gens sans importance”, from 1955, with some fabulous shots of the 518P6 in a shark nose, which was going to set me off writing about Willemes own series of engines…but then the TGs do get into my heart…which is where my good lady will be hitting me if I do not go for my tea…

Cheerio for now.

Beauties to suit all ages here :unamused: :unamused: youtube.com/watch?v=kdnmlCrLWBc
The music is not bad either.
Cheers
Oily