I’m currently signed up to driver hire, getting paid through their umbrella company. I’ve read that after 12 weeks of working at the same place through the agency you are entitled to the same rate of pay as that companies own drivers
what I want to know is, if I ever change back to getting paid through normal PAYE from driver hire will the 12 week period be reset ?
it’s funny this subject has come up. i’ve met several people where i’m doing a bit of ad hoc work that have been working at the same place for anywhere between 2 and 6 years. none of them get quite the full 12 weeks. they all get told not to come in on a couple of occasions in between the 12 week period. i think it’s disgusting, and so do the lads, but they won’t speak up as there is a large amount of managerial bullying.
there’s me and a couple of others that don’t take any [zb] off the bosses, if we don’t like their attitude or constant interfearing, then we just tell them straight, and we’re the ones that get treated well. 
and when i say bosses i don’t mean those that started the firm and own all the shares, i mean the plastic ones that think they know best.
As far as i’m aware, they use the umbrella schemes to get around the 12 week rule, as you’re effectively self employed but paying someone else to do the books for you. Better off self employed (but the 12 week rule doesn’t apply, though you can claim a lot of things against your tax bill to lower the amount of tax paid) or PAYE where the 12 week rule applies although sometimes doesn’t always work in your favour.
Ive no idea to the answer to your question but I doubt you’ll be at the same company for 12 weeks, I worked at the same company thru a agency for 11 weeks 4 days then suprise suprise I was’nt needed the next day, they sent me some where else
Midnight Rambler:
Ive no idea to the answer to your question but I doubt you’ll be at the same company for 12 weeks, I worked at the same company thru a agency for 11 weeks 4 days then suprise suprise I was’nt needed the next day, they sent me some where else
The 12 weeks don’t have to be 12 full weeks it could be as little as 1 hour per week,if they then keep you away for 6 weeks then send you back you would have a claim for more money
mac12:
Midnight Rambler:
Ive no idea to the answer to your question but I doubt you’ll be at the same company for 12 weeks, I worked at the same company thru a agency for 11 weeks 4 days then suprise suprise I was’nt needed the next day, they sent me some where elseThe 12 weeks don’t have to be 12 full weeks it could be as little as 1 hour per week,if they then keep you away for 6 weeks then send you back you would have a claim for more money
oh, did’nt know that, proberbly explains why they have never sent me back there
mac12:
Midnight Rambler:
Ive no idea to the answer to your question but I doubt you’ll be at the same company for 12 weeks, I worked at the same company thru a agency for 11 weeks 4 days then suprise suprise I was’nt needed the next day, they sent me some where elseThe 12 weeks don’t have to be 12 full weeks it could be as little as 1 hour per week,if they then keep you away for 6 weeks then send you back you would have a claim for more money
i’m not disputing what you’re saying, but if you could post a link to confirm this it would be very helpful to some really decent, but sadly down trodden lads that i work with.
There is usually something in the paperwork you sign when you start with an agency that waives your rights to the 12 week rule, I have been signed up with the same agency for years and when this legislation came out I had to sign a seperate sheet but the manager said it was in all new starts T & C’s as standard
Here’s a link to the regs I checked on bis.gov.uk/assets/BISCore/em … idance.pdf
Page 4 "If you are a ‘Temp’ agency worker
The only firm I know of that won’t deliberately muddy the 12 week waters is Royal Mail.
Everywhere else I’ve worked, I’ve stood no chance getting the 13th week of work, because everyone is well aware of the AWR rules, and will sidestep them by not employing someone long enough so the aggregated period worked so far falls back to zero. 
This ease of circumventing the rules demonstrates how unfit for purpose the rules are.
If the rule were CONTINUOUS aggregate (ie what you’ve built up so far in weeks worked didn’t waste away after an absence) then we would see the situation within the driving industry where EVERYONE gets to week 13 eventually - except the really crap drivers who won’t be asked back for day two, let alone week twelve. 
Firms trying to avoid the higher payouts might take on more “new blood” agency staff and give them a go, whilst leaving the ones who’ve just gone up a belt alone until they’re desperate enough to employ them at the new higher rates. At least the status gained isn’t lost this way, but the decent agency bod would find themselves being shifted around on a regular basis - but at least still gets regular work, which has got to be a good thing. 
Chances are that if your signed up to an umbrella company you are contracted to them and not the agency. Therefore the 12 week rule will not apply, you are paying the umbrella company to sort out your tax, not getting any paid holidays even though they say you had your holiday pay in the ■■■■■■ hourly rate they give you. You are also waiving the rights to join the new government backed pension scheme. The 12 week rule was brought in to make thing better for agency staff as is the pension scheme, yet every step taken to improve things actually makes things worse because we allow them to ■■■■■■■■ us into these schemes such as umbrella or self employment. To me a self employed class 1 driver should be billing a company at least £14 ph flat rate with increases for overtime after 8 hours daily and weekend premiums. Then when you do take a week off you might just have a few bob in your arse pocket to go out and enjoy it.
old_n07:
There is usually something in the paperwork you sign when you start with an agency that waives your rights to the 12 week rule, I have been signed up with the same agency for years and when this legislation came out I had to sign a seperate sheet but the manager said it was in all new starts T & C’s as standard
Agencies now get you to sign a Reguation 10 contract this means you then work for the agency so they avoid the awr, it also means you should get paid when there is no work but most say not untill the 2nd week and then it’s based on the hours in the contract.
What is an Umbrella scheme/system? Seen it mentioned and taken no notice but interested now I’m signed up with an agency (no work though, hence why I’m ad-hoc for a small local tipper firm).
daffyd:
I’m currently signed up to driver hire, getting paid through their umbrella company. I’ve read that after 12 weeks of working at the same place through the agency you are entitled to the same rate of pay as that companies own drivers
what I want to know is, if I ever change back to getting paid through normal PAYE from driver hire will the 12 week period be reset ?
The 12 week period will start from the day you come under PAYE at Driver Hire.
limeyphil:
i’m not disputing what you’re saying, but if you could post a link to confirm this it would be very helpful to some really decent, but sadly down trodden lads that i work with.
Agency Workers Regulations…
old_n07:
There is usually something in the paperwork you sign when you start with an agency that waives your rights to the 12 week rule, I have been signed up with the same agency for years and when this legislation came out I had to sign a seperate sheet but the manager said it was in all new starts T & C’s as standard
You then come under the Swedish Derogation if you’re not under the 12 week rule. Under the Swedish Derogation the agency still have to pay you when there’s no work in a week however you can’t turn down stuff to comply with it.
My advice is to STAY OUT of the umbrella schemes.
Be a SOLE TRADER.
You just have to fill in a simple four-page TAX FORM once a year. You don’t have to be an accountant to do this. I’ve got CSE grade 2 maths and I can do it.
You can offset all sorts of expenses, including your lunch, your workboots, a nice coat, a torch, hard hat, hi viz, gloves, truck parking, driving your car to the various places where you work, interest paid when you go overdrawn, credit card interest and so on, against your taxable income.Just keep receipts for everything and add them up at the end of the month.
You soon realise how self-employed people can drink Costa Coffee at £2.50 a cup…the tax man is paying for most of it!
The umbrella company will claim all this on your behalf (very kind of them) then KEEP nearly all of IT.
Don’t let 'em get away with it.
Muckaway:
What is an Umbrella scheme/system? Seen it mentioned and taken no notice but interested now I’m signed up with an agency (no work though, hence why I’m ad-hoc for a small local tipper firm).
Umbrella is the wages department charging a commission to fiddle your taxes, and process your payslip. If you like paying to get your own money being given to you, then go ahead and sign up. Personally, I’d put the umbrella contract underneath that square scented block in a urinal, and ■■■■ on it. 
Conor:
old_n07:
There is usually something in the paperwork you sign when you start with an agency that waives your rights to the 12 week rule, I have been signed up with the same agency for years and when this legislation came out I had to sign a seperate sheet but the manager said it was in all new starts T & C’s as standardYou then come under the Swedish Derogation if you’re not under the 12 week rule. Under the Swedish Derogation the agency still have to pay you when there’s no work in a week however you can’t turn down stuff to comply with it.
I bet they’ll waive the signing up speed of process at the beginning of january, when there is actually a good chance you won’t get any work, and they’d really rather not pay you for sitting at home… “Leave it until next month before we finish off the paperwork” they’ll say. Meanwhile, they’ll dock you emergency tax so when you do go on umbrella, it “looks” like you are better off on it! 
The only thing AWR regulations have done is to make agency workers worse off. Those on the 12 week rule will find themselves sat at home more and turfed off jobs they really like. Those on the Swedish Derog will have to do stuff they don’t want to in order to keep getting paid when there’s nowt.