Anyone drive a MAN Tipmatic auto in fleet spec? Bag of [zb]

I have been driving a brand new MAN 440 Tipmatic (fleet spec) this week and I cannot believe how this passed QC and was allowed to be produced en masse. It is THE WORST auto box out there. The DAF auto was previously at the top of my ‘worst’ list for the light year it takes between gear changes, but that is now God-like in comparison to this heap of ■■■■.

There’s a pic of the gear selector and stuff towards the end of this video if you’re not sure which box I’m on about :

youtube.com/watch?v=Z-D3MRGZfMQ

The comments towards the end of the video are exactly the problem with it - the fleet spec version does not let you select any gear at all other than your ‘moving off’ gear. As soon as you are rolling it goes back into auto and controls every gear change for you until you come to a stop again. Nice idea in theory but in practice it is absolutely HOPELESS.

It tries to pull away from all starts on whatever terrain in 3rd gear (of 12), but it block gears and goes to 5th then 7th, 8th and up. This is reasonably fine on the flat, but on even the slightest incline with a decent amount of weight on, 5th is just too high and with the 2 second pause between changes, you’ve lost half your momentum as it changes up at 1400 revs and you’re down at 950 revs in 5th labouring the ■■■■ out of it so it dies and then has to change down to 4th. Meanwhile the traffic that was in front of you at the lights has now disappeared over the horizon and the lights are on red again.

And hills… it couldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding. Picture the scene: you’ve come down to Brighouse from Harsthead Moor with 25 tonne on and are at the bottom of Ainley Bank. It’s deceptively steep right where it splits into 4 lanes and you need to get a good run at it to stand any chance of going up the other side at ~40. Came down, in top (12th), stayed in top right until where it splits to 4 lanes, by this point the revs were off the bottom of the dial and it was already nearly down to 45. Changes down to 11th, now down to 40 and only just started to enter the righthand curve, but it changed down too low in the rev band, and now it’s too low in 11th and it’s labouring. Changes down to 10th and we’re down to 30mph. Got onto the straight bit where the incline eases slightly and it managed to pull itself to 32mph at 1400 revs and then changed up into 11th again, revs back down at 950 so too low for the blower to do anything, speed died AGAIN, back down in 10th and now 29mph. Seriously… IS THIS [ZB] FOR REAL?

After the first day with it I thought ■■■■ this ■■■■ and pulled out the user manual for it. There is nothing that I don’t know about that truck’s operation now, but the only ‘useful’ thing it tells you to stop it from changing down too early is to plant your loud foot and this activates kick down mode . Sounds impressive, but I knew that already from planting my foot to get the ■■■■■■ moving on the first day. Well I can tell you that it makes absolutely no noticeable difference whatsoever, as detailed above which was from day 2 and after reading the manual. (I should point out just for clarification that the Tipmatic Profi spec allows you to manually select any gear you want, but not the fleet spec).

And the truck itself . Looks really smart from the outside with the colour coded mirrors and neon-style ‘strip’ lights for the side lights, but the interior is still ■■■■■■ with the fridge in the wrong place (RIGHT in front of the middle of the bunk, like a tower sticking out and totally preventing you from sitting on the bunk) and this new design has 18 foot of dashboard in front of you so unless you have the seat at maximum height so your legs are off the ground, you can’t see the 5 cars in the queue directly in front of you. Imagine driving from the back seat of your car - well it’s akin to that. And the roll!!! FFS THE ROLL!!! It’s like driving a bouncy castle, seriously. You could drive straight across 2ft ditches at the sides of the roads and wouldn’t feel a thing, which sounds really nice, but the reality is that the cab is constantly swaying, rocking, bouncing about all over the place and corners like an oil tanker. Pulling a loaded trailer with it is horrible - there’s no feel to what’s going on behind you as everything is ultra-damped and cushioned. It really lulls you into a false sense of security, or would do if the ■■■■-box “gearbox” would allow you to get to a speed where you could get a bit carried away.

HORRIBLE HORRIBLE TRUCK. Give me a Renault Premium any day over it , even one with the factory standard rattling step. I will never complain about a Renault again after this. I even picked up an FH12 Idiot Shift from a hire place this afternoon and the difference between that and the MAN in terms of the gearboxes was like night and day. The I-Shift is far from perfect, but it just ‘works’ and has all the functions for you to do your job with the ability to select your own gears.

/rant

I’ve had one from new , 58 plate , I like it

I totally agree,i normally drive a manual premium and ive been in auto Cf and TGXs this week and the CF is the worst thing ever to have wheels bolted to it, and i think the TGX is over rated,give me my year old premium any day!

BIGRIG1:
I totally agree,i normally drive a manual premium and ive been in auto Cf and TGXs this week and the CF is the worst thing ever to have wheels bolted to it, and i think the TGX is over rated,give me my year old premium any day!

Are the new ones the TGXs now then? I’ve lost track of the model numbers with not really driving these days. IIRC the TGX used to basically be an ERF shaped cab and was basically an ERF with a MAN badge. The TGA was the big wide cab, so has the TGX now replaced that? I think it might have said TGX 440 on the side but I can’t be sure of the letters, but it was a full width cab like the TGA.

Rob K:
I have been driving a brand new MAN 440 Tipmatic (fleet spec) this week and I cannot believe how this passed QC and was allowed to be produced en masse. It is THE WORST auto box out there. The DAF auto was previously at the top of my ‘worst’ list for the light year it takes between gear changes, but that is now God-like in comparison to this heap of [zb].

There’s a pic of the gear selector and stuff towards the end of this video if you’re not sure which box I’m on about :

youtube.com/watch?v=Z-D3MRGZfMQ

The comments towards the end of the video are exactly the problem with it - the fleet spec version does not let you select any gear at all other than your ‘moving off’ gear. As soon as you are rolling it goes back into auto and controls every gear change for you until you come to a stop again. Nice idea in theory but in practice it is absolutely HOPELESS.

It tries to pull away from all starts on whatever terrain in 3rd gear (of 12), but it block gears and goes to 5th then 7th, 8th and up. This is reasonably fine on the flat, but on even the slightest incline with a decent amount of weight on, 5th is just too high and with the 2 second pause between changes, you’ve lost half your momentum as it changes up at 1400 revs and you’re down at 950 revs in 5th labouring the [zb] out of it so it dies and then has to change down to 4th. Meanwhile the traffic that was in front of you at the lights has now disappeared over the horizon and the lights are on red again.

And hills… it couldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding. Picture the scene: you’ve come down to Brighouse from Harsthead Moor with 25 tonne on and are at the bottom of Ainley Bank. It’s deceptively steep right where it splits into 4 lanes and you need to get a good run at it to stand any chance of going up the other side at ~40. Came down, in top (12th), stayed in top right until where it splits to 4 lanes, by this point the revs were off the bottom of the dial and it was already nearly down to 45. Changes down to 11th, now down to 40 and only just started to enter the righthand curve, but it changed down too low in the rev band, and now it’s too low in 11th and it’s labouring. Changes down to 10th and we’re down to 30mph. Got onto the straight bit where the incline eases slightly and it managed to pull itself to 32mph at 1400 revs and then changed up into 11th again, revs back down at 950 so too low for the blower to do anything, speed died AGAIN, back down in 10th and now 29mph. Seriously… IS THIS [ZB] FOR REAL?

After the first day with it I thought [zb] this [zb] and pulled out the user manual for it. There is nothing that I don’t know about that truck’s operation now, but the only ‘useful’ thing it tells you to stop it from changing down too early is to plant your loud foot and this activates kick down mode . Sounds impressive, but I knew that already from planting my foot to get the [zb] moving on the first day. Well I can tell you that it makes absolutely no noticeable difference whatsoever, as detailed above which was from day 2 and after reading the manual. (I should point out just for clarification that the Tipmatic Profi spec allows you to manually select any gear you want, but not the fleet spec).

And the truck itself . Looks really smart from the outside with the colour coded mirrors and neon-style ‘strip’ lights for the side lights, but the interior is still [zb] with the fridge in the wrong place (RIGHT in front of the middle of the bunk, like a tower sticking out and totally preventing you from sitting on the bunk) and this new design has 18 foot of dashboard in front of you so unless you have the seat at maximum height so your legs are off the ground, you can’t see the 5 cars in the queue directly in front of you. Imagine driving from the back seat of your car - well it’s akin to that. And the roll!!! FFS THE ROLL!!! It’s like driving a bouncy castle, seriously. You could drive straight across 2ft ditches at the sides of the roads and wouldn’t feel a thing, which sounds really nice, but the reality is that the cab is constantly swaying, rocking, bouncing about all over the place and corners like an oil tanker. Pulling a loaded trailer with it is horrible - there’s no feel to what’s going on behind you as everything is ultra-damped and cushioned. It really lulls you into a false sense of security, or would do if the [zb] “gearbox” would allow you to get to a speed where you could get a bit carried away.

HORRIBLE HORRIBLE TRUCK. Give me a Renault Premium any day over it , even one with the factory standard rattling step. I will never complain about a Renault again after this. I even picked up an FH12 Idiot Shift from a hire place this afternoon and the difference between that and the MAN in terms of the gearboxes was like night and day. The I-Shift is far from perfect, but it just ‘works’ and has all the functions for you to do your job with the ability to select your own gears.

/rant

Don’t u like MANs then Rob? Just get to the point mate!!

Funny you should post this as I have recently had to let the ERF go to the ‘scrapyard in the sky’ and now have a brand new 61 plate MAN XL with this box (I don’t actually think it has kickdown mode on the fleet spec) and I also think its ■■■.
I never run heavy so I suppose thats a help but I still don’t like it.
It’s my first auto so I may be paranoid ?
Going downhill is terrible, just touch the brake pedal for a nice steady slow down and nothing happens, bit more on the brake and they start to bite like your doing an emergency stop, so ease off a bit more and the engine/retarder brakey thing kicks in slowing you again, then the box starts changing down, this leads to you being on off on off with the brakes just to try and do a nice steady gradual brake.
I actually think the whole truck is ■■■. My 10 year old ERF with a low roof had more storage space and a better box than this !!
There is no room under the bed, no comfort on the bed, the curtains don’t cover all the windows, hazard light switch is hidden behind the steering wheel, the buttons on the steering wheel keep getting pressed accidentally so when reversing the radio suddenly goes full blast or changes station. The steering wheel also hides the fuel gauge, temp gauge and both air pressure gauges.
The cool box is an utter waste of space (unless it is a working fridge), the speakers are rubbish and one doesn’t even work , the 12v and 24v sockets are in the passenger footwell !

Rob K:

BIGRIG1:
I totally agree,i normally drive a manual premium and ive been in auto Cf and TGXs this week and the CF is the worst thing ever to have wheels bolted to it, and i think the TGX is over rated,give me my year old premium any day!

Are the new ones the TGXs now then? I’ve lost track of the model numbers with not really driving these days. IIRC the TGX used to basically be an ERF shaped cab and was basically an ERF with a MAN badge. The TGA was the big wide cab, so has the TGX now replaced that? I think it might have said TGX 440 on the side but I can’t be sure of the letters, but it was a full width cab like the TGA.

TGX is the new name for TGA. The ERF you mention was probably a ERF ECS which was also the same cab as a MAN F2000. At the same time there was also an ERF ECX which was a proper ERF cab (I think ?)

It says ERF not RAF:
Funny you should post this as I have recently had to let the ERF go to the ‘scrapyard in the sky’ and now have a brand new 61 plate MAN XL with this box (I don’t actually think it has kickdown mode on the fleet spec) and I also think its ■■■.
I never run heavy so I suppose thats a help but I still don’t like it.
It’s my first auto so I may be paranoid ?

NO. The MANs really are bad. I am very anti-autoboxes in general but in fairness the Volvo I-Shift has grown on me and is quick slick to use for normal road driving. I’d still prefer a stirrer, however.

Going downhill is terrible, just touch the brake pedal for a nice steady slow down and nothing happens, bit more on the brake and they start to bite like your doing an emergency stop, so ease off a bit more and the engine/retarder brakey thing kicks in slowing you again, then the box starts changing down, this leads to you being on off on off with the brakes just to try and do a nice steady gradual brake.

YES, YES and YES. I thought I’d written enough in my rant but you can definitely add that to it. Everything you say is EXACTLY the same experience I had. It is impossible to brake smoothly in them. You’ve either no brakes at all or they are biting like [zb], and don’t get me started on the retarder. According to the manual you can set the level of retarder power on the right stalk and the button on the end of it allegedly turns it on or off. I tried configuring it on mine but it doesn’t seem to apply it properly. With the button pressed once (the ‘off’ setting, bizarrely) there is some light retarding which is reasonably acceptable, but you still can’t get away from it dropping down the box like a ■■■■■ as you’re braking - it seems to go down through nearly every gear and there’s a horrible transmission thud when it drops from 7th into either 5th or 3rd - the whole ■■■■ truck shakes when it happens.

With the button on it’s stupidly powerful. A few days ago I came down the 629 from Ainley into Halifax with about 20 tonne on the back and never had to touch the brakes once. In fact the retarder was so powerful that even going down that steep hill it was still slowing the truck down further and I had to turn it off for it to maintain original speed. The trouble with doing that though is that it then changed up into 12th again and it runs away as you’ve no longer got any retarder.

I actually think the whole truck is ■■■. My 10 year old ERF with a low roof had more storage space and a better box than this !!
There is no room under the bed, no comfort on the bed, the curtains don’t cover all the windows, hazard light switch is hidden behind the steering wheel, the buttons on the steering wheel keep getting pressed accidentally so when reversing the radio suddenly goes full blast or changes station. The steering wheel also hides the fuel gauge, temp gauge and both air pressure gauges.
The cool box is an utter waste of space (unless it is a working fridge), the speakers are rubbish and one doesn’t even work , the 12v and 24v sockets are in the passenger footwell !

Other than the fridge I’ve not experienced that, but I don’t doubt you for one second. I do agree about the steering wheel hiding the dash though. In fact the steering wheel is nearly the same size as the old MAN dustbin lids of old!

I’m with Rob on this one. Not driven the MAN much but although I didn’t mind the truck (awful steering wheel though), I thought the 'box was absolutely ■■■■■■ I also drove Renault Premium before the MAN and thought the 'box on that was decent.

Occasionally drive a Scania these days and it has an auto box and clutch…

Pointless kit from Skoda there…

Rob K:
Are the new ones the TGXs now then? I’ve lost track of the model numbers with not really driving these days. IIRC the TGX used to basically be an ERF shaped cab and was basically an ERF with a MAN badge. The TGA was the big wide cab, so has the TGX now replaced that? I think it might have said TGX 440 on the side but I can’t be sure of the letters, but it was a full width cab like the TGA.

The TGX and TGS replaced the TGA. When you could get the TGA it was available in wide and narrow cabbed versions, with the new model they split them up and the TGX is the wide cab and TGS the narrow one.

Paul

I really liked the manual TGA with the little button on the side of the gear stick you can use in place of a clutch,sort of semi auto if you like,move your arm and pick what gear you need when you need it but no leg work.

BIGRIG1:
I really liked the manual TGA with the little button on the side of the gear stick you can use in place of a clutch,sort of semi auto if you like,move your arm and pick what gear you need when you need it but no leg work.

Comfort shift… . it was a manual box with a clutch button on the gearstick

Rob K:
I have been driving a brand new MAN 440 Tipmatic (fleet spec) this week and I cannot believe how this passed QC and was allowed to be produced en masse. It is THE WORST auto box out there. The DAF auto was previously at the top of my ‘worst’ list for the light year it takes between gear changes, but that is now God-like in comparison to this heap of [zb].

There’s a pic of the gear selector and stuff towards the end of this video if you’re not sure which box I’m on about :

youtube.com/watch?v=Z-D3MRGZfMQ

The comments towards the end of the video are exactly the problem with it - the fleet spec version does not let you select any gear at all other than your ‘moving off’ gear. As soon as you are rolling it goes back into auto and controls every gear change for you until you come to a stop again. Nice idea in theory but in practice it is absolutely HOPELESS.

It tries to pull away from all starts on whatever terrain in 3rd gear (of 12), but it block gears and goes to 5th then 7th, 8th and up. This is reasonably fine on the flat, but on even the slightest incline with a decent amount of weight on, 5th is just too high and with the 2 second pause between changes, you’ve lost half your momentum as it changes up at 1400 revs and you’re down at 950 revs in 5th labouring the [zb] out of it so it dies and then has to change down to 4th. Meanwhile the traffic that was in front of you at the lights has now disappeared over the horizon and the lights are on red again.

And hills… it couldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding. Picture the scene: you’ve come down to Brighouse from Harsthead Moor with 25 tonne on and are at the bottom of Ainley Bank. It’s deceptively steep right where it splits into 4 lanes and you need to get a good run at it to stand any chance of going up the other side at ~40. Came down, in top (12th), stayed in top right until where it splits to 4 lanes, by this point the revs were off the bottom of the dial and it was already nearly down to 45. Changes down to 11th, now down to 40 and only just started to enter the righthand curve, but it changed down too low in the rev band, and now it’s too low in 11th and it’s labouring. Changes down to 10th and we’re down to 30mph. Got onto the straight bit where the incline eases slightly and it managed to pull itself to 32mph at 1400 revs and then changed up into 11th again, revs back down at 950 so too low for the blower to do anything, speed died AGAIN, back down in 10th and now 29mph. Seriously… IS THIS [ZB] FOR REAL?

After the first day with it I thought [zb] this [zb] and pulled out the user manual for it. There is nothing that I don’t know about that truck’s operation now, but the only ‘useful’ thing it tells you to stop it from changing down too early is to plant your loud foot and this activates kick down mode . Sounds impressive, but I knew that already from planting my foot to get the [zb] moving on the first day. Well I can tell you that it makes absolutely no noticeable difference whatsoever, as detailed above which was from day 2 and after reading the manual. (I should point out just for clarification that the Tipmatic Profi spec allows you to manually select any gear you want, but not the fleet spec).

And the truck itself . Looks really smart from the outside with the colour coded mirrors and neon-style ‘strip’ lights for the side lights, but the interior is still [zb] with the fridge in the wrong place (RIGHT in front of the middle of the bunk, like a tower sticking out and totally preventing you from sitting on the bunk) and this new design has 18 foot of dashboard in front of you so unless you have the seat at maximum height so your legs are off the ground, you can’t see the 5 cars in the queue directly in front of you. Imagine driving from the back seat of your car - well it’s akin to that. And the roll!!! FFS THE ROLL!!! It’s like driving a bouncy castle, seriously. You could drive straight across 2ft ditches at the sides of the roads and wouldn’t feel a thing, which sounds really nice, but the reality is that the cab is constantly swaying, rocking, bouncing about all over the place and corners like an oil tanker. Pulling a loaded trailer with it is horrible - there’s no feel to what’s going on behind you as everything is ultra-damped and cushioned. It really lulls you into a false sense of security, or would do if the [zb] “gearbox” would allow you to get to a speed where you could get a bit carried away.

HORRIBLE HORRIBLE TRUCK. Give me a Renault Premium any day over it , even one with the factory standard rattling step. I will never complain about a Renault again after this. I even picked up an FH12 Idiot Shift from a hire place this afternoon and the difference between that and the MAN in terms of the gearboxes was like night and day. The I-Shift is far from perfect, but it just ‘works’ and has all the functions for you to do your job with the ability to select your own gears.

/rant

Rant and half

I’ve got a 11 plate MAN XLX 440 with the PROF1 box and I like it a lot. Will agree with some points though.
The retarder I found a bit vicious when I first had it, got used to it now. there’s a switch on the dash to turn it off on mine.
I don’t like the position of the hazard switch, it’s a bit awkward to get at and it’s next to the diff lock, which I’ve turned on by mistake a couple of times.
not keen on where they’ve put the cool box, like you say you can’t sit on the bunk. Which I find comfy enough.
I don’t understand the problem with the steering wheel it’s got good adjustment and doesn’t cover the dash at all.
the cab doesn’t sway any thing like as much as the Stralis I used to have.
It pulls well enough drags twenty plus ton over Woodhead well enough. All in all I’m well happy with it

BIGRIG1:
I totally agree,i normally drive a manual premium and ive been in auto Cf and TGXs this week and the CF is the worst thing ever to have wheels bolted to it, and i think the TGX is over rated,give me my year old premium any day!

I take it you’ve never driven an Axor then I think the CF is a nice unit; at least I don’t feel sea sick when I’m driving one.

I agree with the comments on the MAN, they’re cheap and nasty.

Rob K:
/rant

TL;DR

Never had any real problems with the MAN box save when doing lots of shunting in slow speed mode, in a very tight yard, when it overheats and flashes a warning on the display.

knight:
I’ve got a 11 plate MAN XLX 440 with the PROF1 box and I like it a lot. Will agree with some points though.
The retarder I found a bit vicious when I first had it, got used to it now. there’s a switch on the dash to turn it off on mine.
I don’t like the position of the hazard switch, it’s a bit awkward to get at and it’s next to the diff lock, which I’ve turned on by mistake a couple of times.
not keen on where they’ve put the cool box, like you say you can’t sit on the bunk. Which I find comfy enough.
I don’t understand the problem with the steering wheel it’s got good adjustment and doesn’t cover the dash at all.
the cab doesn’t sway any thing like as much as the Stralis I used to have.
It pulls well enough drags twenty plus ton over Woodhead well enough. All in all I’m well happy with it

Your argument is invalid for the above higlighted and underscored reason. The prof1 spec allows you to set your own gears. The fleet spec does not. Drive a fleet spec one and then come back and say you “like it a lot”.

Rob K:

knight:
I’ve got a 11 plate MAN XLX 440 with the PROF1 box and I like it a lot. Will agree with some points though.
The retarder I found a bit vicious when I first had it, got used to it now. there’s a switch on the dash to turn it off on mine.
I don’t like the position of the hazard switch, it’s a bit awkward to get at and it’s next to the diff lock, which I’ve turned on by mistake a couple of times.
not keen on where they’ve put the cool box, like you say you can’t sit on the bunk. Which I find comfy enough.
I don’t understand the problem with the steering wheel it’s got good adjustment and doesn’t cover the dash at all.
the cab doesn’t sway any thing like as much as the Stralis I used to have.
It pulls well enough drags twenty plus ton over Woodhead well enough. All in all I’m well happy with it

Your argument is invalid for the above higlighted and underscored reason. The prof1 spec allows you to set your own gears. The fleet spec does not. Drive a fleet spec one and then come back and say you “like it a lot”.

What sort of box is it?

mickyblue:

Rob K:

knight:
I’ve got a 11 plate MAN XLX 440 with the PROF1 box and I like it a lot. Will agree with some points though.
The retarder I found a bit vicious when I first had it, got used to it now. there’s a switch on the dash to turn it off on mine.
I don’t like the position of the hazard switch, it’s a bit awkward to get at and it’s next to the diff lock, which I’ve turned on by mistake a couple of times.
not keen on where they’ve put the cool box, like you say you can’t sit on the bunk. Which I find comfy enough.
I don’t understand the problem with the steering wheel it’s got good adjustment and doesn’t cover the dash at all.
the cab doesn’t sway any thing like as much as the Stralis I used to have.
It pulls well enough drags twenty plus ton over Woodhead well enough. All in all I’m well happy with it

Your argument is invalid for the above higlighted and underscored reason. The prof1 spec allows you to set your own gears. The fleet spec does not. Drive a fleet spec one and then come back and say you “like it a lot”.

What sort of box is it?

Learn to read.

Yeah i did,

I will ask again,

If your able to select your own gears, is it an auto or a manual, or one of those semi auto jobs?

So before you type have a think RobK as my question was a valid one.

I