Tipping on break

limeyphil:
not a problem. as far as i’m concerned.
drop the trailer, park the unit up, jump in the shunter, load your trailer, drop the trailer, take 7 hours off, card in your own unit shows 9, early friday finish.
i do the job to suit me, not some pen pushing TC, who knows [zb] all.

ps. i’m now at home getting paid because todays work is done.

I used this thread to continue this discussion, it always makes me smile when you can see the renegade point of view!

11 years down the line and my phone rang,mate, hiya mate, do some digging for me please. I don’t want driver rumour or Aldi Do Lidl Say!

Do I have to take my break on a bay? Im not doing anything, no paperwork, mirrors are clean, everything is 100% correct. I don’t want my break here. I want to take it at Madam Trixies when I have finished here.

The heirarchy want me to unload and come straight back to the yard. I am not blagging a night out. I will be home with 35 minutes to spare on a 9 hour drive.

So what does the law state? WTD does not come into this, neither do any extended drives.

A break
A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.

Alternatively, a full 45 minute break can be replaced by one break of at least 15 minutes followed by another break of at least 30 minutes. These breaks must be distributed over the 4.5 hour period. Breaks of less than 15 minutes will not contribute towards a qualifying break, but neither will they be counted as duty or driving time.

Madam Trixie or My Boss?

I’m contrary by nature Wheelnut so my immediate reaction to a Co instructing me to take a break on a bay would be a resounding NO, purely because some spunktrumpet in an office wants me to do it.

The reality for me at least is that I’m not even asked to do it, so consequently I do take breaks on bays whilst I’m playing solitaire / reading TNUK etc purely for my benefit. I then will later on take a break to suit me without the hassle of wondering if I’ve exceeded this limit or that limit.

the maoster:
I’m contrary by nature Wheelnut so my immediate reaction to a Co instructing me to take a break on a bay would be a resounding NO, purely because some spunktrumpet in an office wants me to do it.

The reality for me at least is that I’m not even asked to do it, so consequently I do take breaks on bays whilst I’m playing solitaire / reading TNUK etc purely for my benefit. I then will later on take a break to suit me without the hassle of wondering if I’ve exceeded this limit or that limit.

Same here Maoster ,

Sent from goodness knows where

blue estate:

the maoster:
I’m contrary by nature Wheelnut so my immediate reaction to a Co instructing me to take a break on a bay would be a resounding NO, purely because some spunktrumpet in an office wants me to do it.

The reality for me at least is that I’m not even asked to do it, so consequently I do take breaks on bays whilst I’m playing solitaire / reading TNUK etc purely for my benefit. I then will later on take a break to suit me without the hassle of wondering if I’ve exceeded this limit or that limit.

Same here Maoster ,

And here.

I’ve no issue taking a break on a bay if asked , I’d be more embarrassed siting on a bay for 3/4 hrs then pulling out the gate & having a 45 , it’s no wonder it’s a them & us attitude you get from the t.o when drivers behave like that
Then on the Keedwell thread we’ve those same drivers telling the wife of the owner that she should keep them in a job ,what ZB planet to they live on !!

Wheel Nut:
Do I have to take my break on a bay? Im not doing anything, no paperwork, mirrors are clean, everything is 100% correct. I don’t want my break here. I want to take it at Madam Trixies when I have finished here.

I’ve been pondering over the morality of this myself. Technically bay time shouldn’t count as a proper break because
a) Often no access to toilets (esp. these days)
b) no access to food/water/coffee etc. (unless you brought your own)
c) not free to leave vehicle and wander around
d) don’t know how long you’re going to be there for (20 mins? 35? 1 hour?)

Ever since they lowered the daily pay guarantee from 8 to 6 hours I only take 15 min. break on bay, I don’t care if I’m there for an hour because of a)-d).

dozy:
I’ve no issue taking a break on a bay if asked , I’d be more embarrassed siting on a bay for 3/4 hrs then pulling out the gate & having a 45 , it’s no wonder it’s a them & us attitude you get from the t.o when drivers behave like that
Then on the Keedwell thread we’ve those same drivers telling the wife of the owner that she should keep them in a job ,what ZB planet to they live on !!

Wrong log in?

Can we all agree (!) that tipping on s break is legal provided you are free to do as you want?
So this isn’t a question of law, but of company rules?
If you work for a micro-managed outfit, high security, or where ever time is closely looked at, then break timings will be looked at. It goes with the job. If you find that a problem, go elsewhere. (Not a factory or office though as you probably won’t get freedom to choose your own lunchtime there either)
I’ve never had to work to those conditions myself, but if that was part of a new job, I would have the choice to accept or decline it. If that’s the sort of company you choose to work for…then that’s what you do.
.
.
Unless of course you join a union and negotiate better terms etc, but that is changing the job you are doing.

ETS:
I’ve been pondering over the morality of this myself. Technically bay time shouldn’t count as a proper break because
a) Often no access to toilets (esp. these days)
b) no access to food/water/coffee etc. (unless you brought your own)
c) not free to leave vehicle and wander around
d) don’t know how long you’re going to be there for (20 mins? 35? 1 hour?)

Ever since they lowered the daily pay guarantee from 8 to 6 hours I only take 15 min. break on bay, I don’t care if I’m there for an hour because of a)-d).

4 points. All wrong.

isaac hunt:
4 points. All wrong.

ok

the maoster:

dozy:
I’ve no issue taking a break on a bay if asked , I’d be more embarrassed siting on a bay for 3/4 hrs then pulling out the gate & having a 45 , it’s no wonder it’s a them & us attitude you get from the t.o when drivers behave like that
Then on the Keedwell thread we’ve those same drivers telling the wife of the owner that she should keep them in a job ,what ZB planet to they live on !!

Wrong log in?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+1
a bit obvious there,but say nothing and he can ignore it and assume he got away with it…

when i had the misfortune to work at tesco for a while then when you are on a bay,its other work,and you are waiting on the green light or a shout from a mobile cabbage to move. your break is only accepted if you are not driving,tipping,or loading or waiting to do so for whatever reason .
end of story.
apart from that,then show a break as and when it suits you( tipping or loading on it),then wangle the rest of the day to also suit you whilst keeping off of the office radar…

the maoster:
I’m contrary by nature Wheelnut so my immediate reaction to a Co instructing me to take a break on a bay would be a resounding NO, purely because some spunktrumpet in an office wants me to do it.

The reality for me at least is that I’m not even asked to do it, so consequently I do take breaks on bays whilst I’m playing solitaire / reading TNUK etc purely for my benefit. I then will later on take a break to suit me without the hassle of wondering if I’ve exceeded this limit or that limit.

Yes that was basically the consensus, the phone call was from an old poster from here, he may have even contributed something to this thread. We were just looking for any addendum or corrigendum that says, whoah, hold your horses, document 7/89758 iiib says this!

You never know when you may be taken short, but if I want a toilet and a shower I would sooner do it after tipping.

examinerlive.co.uk/news/loc … d-18533554

scottishcruiser:
Your right Andy, Aldi/Lidl are self tip and the Vosa hoes know this hence why they are there preying on the vulnerable.

Preying on the stupid

dozy:
I’ve no issue taking a break on a bay if asked , I’d be more embarrassed siting on a bay for 3/4 hrs then pulling out the gate & having a 45 , it’s no wonder it’s a them & us attitude you get from the t.o when drivers behave like that

You’ve got that wrong doze, it’s THEM that create the ‘them and us’ scenario.
When you get told to do things 100% right, and they threaten you with disciplinary action for this that and the ■■■■ other, they can’t have it both ways.
If you are on a bay you are technically and absolutely ‘working’, so suddenly it’s ok to bend the rules, no matter how trivial when it suits them.

Tbf, I’ve never been asked to take a break on a bay, but as Maoster says if it suits me I will, and make up with a proper break afterwards…but you invariably get the f/whits who count it as a break, even if they can not get to facilities and/or have a kip for instance.
Would you take that break (if asked or instructed) if it meant you were cutting your own throat, and doing yourself out of a night out, by reducing your proper spreadover by 45 mins for instance.?
I’ve always gone for the ‘reap and sow’ way of working, if I’m treated fairly and generally ok, I’ll bend a bit, …if I ain’t I won’t.

robroy:
If you are on a bay you are technically and absolutely ‘working’,

Why?
“A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.”
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours
So far as the law goes, even a moving vehicle is OK for a break.
If you want to say that a job, when you get no freedom to choose when/where you have a break, is a poor job, I`d agree; but not that you are " technically and absolutely ‘working’," if so.

Franglais:

robroy:
If you are on a bay you are technically and absolutely ‘working’,

Why?
“A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.”
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours
So far as the law goes, even a moving vehicle is OK for a break.
If you want to say that a job, when you get no freedom to choose when/where you have a break, is a poor job, I`d agree; but not that you are " technically and absolutely ‘working’," if so.

Mate…you now exactly what I mean. and I was not referring to any rule of law or regulation, I was speaking broadly.
Loading is part of your job, if you are on a bay you are loading, ok you ain’t physically grafting, but you are carrying out part of the haulage operation, ie working.

If you park in a lay by/cafe/msa/outside your gaff for a coffee you ain’t working.
If you want to forfeit a break in favour of booking other work whilst loading/working that is entirely up to you, but technically on a bay during work time, you can say wtf you like…but in real and technical terms, you are working.
Are you going to continue splitting hairs?

Franglais:

robroy:
If you are on a bay you are technically and absolutely ‘working’,

Why?
“A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.”
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours
So far as the law goes, even a moving vehicle is OK for a break.
If you want to say that a job, when you get no freedom to choose when/where you have a break, is a poor job, I`d agree; but not that you are " technically and absolutely ‘working’," if so.

‘‘You can only take your lunch break at your desk (for safety reasons), oh btw we might have to ask you to resume work before your break is over because there are 5 more guys waiting for you to move on’’

You are working while on a bay (at least I am) because I’m not free to walk away from the truck - for one, most yards are no-walk-through-zones so can’t leave that way, can’t go the other way either because access cards for doors and stuff, 2 they want me to stay there so they can kick me off the bay 1 second after the stutter is closed which can take 20-60 mins or longer but they/I never know before hand so even if I do have the option to walk off I have to keep coming back every few mins to check so my presence inside or right next to the vehicle is pretty much required. I admit to sometimes showing a break while tipping and then taking a proper one at services (tacho on ‘other work’ to compensate)

You don’t need to be free to walk away from the truck for it to qualify as a break ^^^

robroy:

Franglais:

robroy:
If you are on a bay you are technically and absolutely ‘working’,

Why?
“A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.”
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours
So far as the law goes, even a moving vehicle is OK for a break.
If you want to say that a job, when you get no freedom to choose when/where you have a break, is a poor job, I`d agree; but not that you are " technically and absolutely ‘working’," if so.

Mate…you now exactly what I mean. and I was not referring to any rule of law or regulation, I was speaking broadly.
Loading is part of your job, if you are on a bay you are loading, ok you ain’t physically grafting, but you are carrying out part of the haulage operation, ie working.

If you park in a lay by/cafe/msa/outside your gaff for a coffee you ain’t working.
If you want to forfeit a break in favour of booking other work whilst loading/working that is entirely up to you, but technically on a bay during work time, you can say wtf you like…but in real and technical terms, you are working.
Are you going to continue splitting hairs?

I do know what you mean, and partly agree.
But you did say “Technically” and
Mirriam-Webster says
“Technically definition is - with regard to or in accordance with a strict or literal interpretation of something (such as a rule, a term, or an official description…”
So, technically you are wrong to say “technically”.
If the rules say you can be on break, then technically you are.
I agree a forced break isn`t much good etc, but it is legal, and so is technically OK.
Pedantic? Moi?

scott42:
If you are taking a break, you are not even supposed to clean your mirrors.

If you are on a bay and taking a break, i.e. sitting in the cab, having a ciggie, quaffing a brew etc, then you are having a break.

Working is working and if you work and book a break, then you are breaking the law.

If you’re working while booking a break on the tacho that’s creating a false record.They really don’t like that.