15 hours

Can drivers be planned 15 hour shifts

can drivers be dictated that "we (the company) can make you do 3 x 15 hour shifts a week

I can feel another urban myth coming on…

UnionJack:
Can drivers be planned 15 hour shifts

can drivers be dictated that "we (the company) can make you do 3 x 15 hour shifts a week

I would say that depends on your contract of employment and your normal working practice, but generally I would see nothing wrong with a company planning a 15 hour spread-over if it was needed as long as you’re given the opportunity to plan your week accordingly, though I suspect some drivers will disagree

The big question is how much rest will you be getting before the next shift, if they’re also planning a reduced daily rest between some shifts it may be a whole different ball game

UnionJack:
Can drivers be planned 15 hour shifts

can drivers be dictated that "we (the company) can make you do 3 x 15 hour shifts a week

it would depend on your contract of work if you have one.

also if there plan you for 15 hours there must take the responsibility of you not completing your shift to some unfor see event

in the reg is says this

LIABILITY OF TRANSPORT UNDERTAKINGS
Article 10

1. A transport undertaking shall not give drivers it employs
   or who are put at its disposal any payment, even in the form
   of a bonus or wage supplement, related to distances travelled
   and/or the amount of goods carried if that payment is of such
   a kind as to endanger road safety and/or encourages
   infringement of this Regulation.
2. A transport undertaking shall organise the work of
   drivers referred to in paragraph 1 in such a way that the
   drivers are able to comply with Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85
   and Chapter II of this Regulation. The transport undertaking
   shall properly instruct the driver and shall make regular
   checks to ensure that Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 and
   Chapter II of this Regulation are complied with.
3. A transport undertaking shall be liable for infringements
   committed by drivers of the undertaking, even if the
   infringement was committed on the territory of another
   Member State or a third country.
   Without prejudice to the right of Member States to hold
   transport undertakings fully liable, Member States may make
   this liability conditional on the undertaking’s infringement of
   paragraphs 1 and 2. Member States may consider any evidence
   that the transport undertaking cannot reasonably be held
   responsible for the infringement committed.
4. Undertakings, consignors, freight forwarders, tour operators,
   principal contractors, subcontractors and driver employment
   agencies shall ensure that contractually agreed transport
   time schedules respect this Regulation.
5. (a) A transport undertaking which uses vehicles that
   are fitted with recording equipment complying with
   Annex IB of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 and that
   fall within the scope of this Regulation, shall:
   (i) ensure that all data are downloaded from the
   vehicle unit and driver card as regularly as is
   stipulated by the Member State and that
   relevant data are downloaded more frequently
   so as to ensure that all data concerning
   activities undertaken by or for that undertaking
   are downloaded;
   (ii) ensure that all data downloaded from both the
   vehicle unit and driver card are kept for at least
   12 months following recording and, should an
   inspecting officer request it, such data are
   accessible, either directly or remotely, from the
   premises of the undertaking;
   (b) for the purposes of this paragraph ‘downloaded’
   shall be interpreted in accordance with the definition
   laid down in Annex IB, Chapter I, point (s) of
   Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85;
   (c) the maximum period within which the relevant data
   shall be downloaded under (a)(i) shall be decided by
   the Commission in accordance with the procedure
   referred to in Article 24(2).

tachograph:
The big question is how much rest will you be getting before the next shift, if they’re also planning a reduced daily rest between some shifts it may be a whole different ball game

i thought the only type of daily rest you could take after a fifteen was a reduced one.

ashbyspannerman:

tachograph:
The big question is how much rest will you be getting before the next shift, if they’re also planning a reduced daily rest between some shifts it may be a whole different ball game

i thought the only type of daily rest you could take after a fifteen was a reduced one.

Not if you’ve taken a three hour rest period during the spread-over

But you are of course right I phrased it badly and should have said “if they’re also planning less than an 11 hour rest period between some shifts it may be a whole different ball game”

they can plan a 15 hour day
but what will they do when you cant get back to the yard
Argos Magna pk works on a 12 max
theres an inquisistion if you book any more

i think so, as long as they are planning for reduced daily rests and no more than 3 between any weekly rest periods. the way the things are at least you’ll be earning a good wage

YES, they can plan a 15 hour day BUT the over-riding factor for the driver is SAFETY.

If the driver considers that they are, or will be, too tired to do such a shift then that takes precedence over everything else.

No matter what the company says about it, you are no good to anyone DEAD.

There will be the usual comments of - you will lose your job etc if you do not comply but what’s the use of a job when you are dead or have killed/injured someone else because you tried to please the boss

i think its between you and the company, but its something they cant enforce if you want to put your foot down, but if you do its like anywhere else … next thing your stuck on 8 hours basic till you come round to their way of thinking

also if you have a 15 day then must have at least 9 hours off, you can have more buts up to you.

ashbyspannerman:

tachograph:
The big question is how much rest will you be getting before the next shift, if they’re also planning a reduced daily rest between some shifts it may be a whole different ball game

i thought the only type of daily rest you could take after a fifteen was a reduced one.

As far as I’m aware, the length of daily rest has no relation to the hours worked as long as you’ve done the minimum. It’s not compulsory to have a 9hr rest after a 15hr day. You can park up at 21.00hrs and not start till 14.00hrs the next day if you want, it only becomes a violation if you leave your card in, due to over-run.

Im with Tachograph, if it complies with the WTD then yes of course they can providing the work is there, if there doing it out of badness then I would say something, but if its genuine and the work is there and your not breaking the law with your WTD then I dont see the problem.

berewic:

ashbyspannerman:

tachograph:
The big question is how much rest will you be getting before the next shift, if they’re also planning a reduced daily rest between some shifts it may be a whole different ball game

i thought the only type of daily rest you could take after a fifteen was a reduced one.

As far as I’m aware, the length of daily rest has no relation to the hours worked as long as you’ve done the minimum. It’s not compulsory to have a 9hr rest after a 15hr day. You can park up at 21.00hrs and not start till 14.00hrs the next day if you want, it only becomes a violation if you leave your card in, due to over-run.

But simple arithmetic rules here, you cannot have a longer rest as there are still 24 hours in a day and 15 + 9 equal that 24.

Berewics example is not a 17 hour break or rest period.

13 + 11 = 24
15 + 9 = 24

Do the math as the yanks say

15hrs + 9 = 24 I know so that days 24hr period is legal but there is nothing that says you have to start your next shift at the end of the 24hr period. If your only 3hrs away from where you need to be but got 8hrs to get there after your 9hr rest, what’s the point of getting out of bed at 6am if you don’t need to start till 11am ? If you only take a 9, it’s going to count as a 9 and 2hrs will have to be made up later. If you take more than 11 but less than 24, it counts as an 11hr rest period.

I think some of us, including me, assumed that the 15s would be done back to back with the same start time each day

I used to do 15s but the next days shift would start later in order for enough rest (for me) to be taken.

Start 6am finish 9pm then have 12 hours off but only 9 counts as rest. Start 9am next day.

Not sure if the 3 hours that was not counted in the 12 hours off can be counted as daily rest for the next 24 hour period if it falls within that period… hmm… GURU needed…

I think the point thats being made is that after doing a 15 hour spread over you are automatically on a reduced rest period be it 9 hrs or 11+ , it still counts as a reduced daily rest.

Goaty:
I think the point thats being made is that after doing a 15 hour spread over you are automatically on a reduced rest period be it 9 hrs or 11+ , it still counts as a reduced daily rest.

I disagree. If you take your card out, the rest period would be counted from when you finished to when you started again the next day and if it’s 11 or over it counts as 11.

ROG:
I think some of us, including me, assumed that the 15s would be done back to back with the same start time each day

I used to do 15s but the next days shift would start later in order for enough rest (for me) to be taken.

Start 6am finish 9pm then have 12 hours off but only 9 counts as rest. Start 9am next day.

Not sure if the 3 hours that was not counted in the 12 hours off can be counted as daily rest for the next 24 hour period if it falls within that period… hmm… GURU needed…

So what your saying is, although you didn’t work for 12hrs you still have to make up 2hrs along the line?

berewic:

Goaty:
I think the point thats being made is that after doing a 15 hour spread over you are automatically on a reduced rest period be it 9 hrs or 11+ , it still counts as a reduced daily rest.

I disagree. If you take your card out, the rest period would be counted from when you finished to when you started again the next day and if it’s 11 or over it counts as 11.

Yes, your rest period is from when you take your card out until it goes in again. If however you have 11 (or more) hours off after a 15 hour spread over (assuming you didn’t have at least 3 hours rest in this 15 hour s/over) it will still be counted as one of your 3 reduced daily rest periods because onlythe first 9 hrs of the 11 (or more) are within a 24 hour period.

15 hr s/over + 9hrs rest = 24 hrs. the extra hours you have on top of this don’t come into it.

Daft I know but the drivers hours regs are set in stone so to speak and are pretty clear on this.

Then I could be in trouble when I start with the Digi. I’ve never worked it like that so hope the Digi will let me know. Does it tell you stuff like that? How many hrs driving it’s counted/got left, weekly rest, can’t start till ?, etc, etc?