Who’s taking a 25% reduction in there pay and who’s going to quit
Are you driving for a “small company” who will continue to hire you as LTD ?
I’m still waiting for the agency to confirm what there rates will be after 6th before i move on to other things, probably
Will be interesting to see what the implementation of IR35 has on the private sector, as if the UK economy isn’t already in the brown stuff. What a great time to bring in sweeping changes that will result in the economy taking further hits.
robbo99.:
Will be interesting to see what the implementation of IR35 has on the private sector, as if the UK economy isn’t already in the brown stuff. What a great time to bring in sweeping changes that will result in the economy taking further hits.
Why will the economy “take further hits”?
205:
I’m still waiting for the agency to confirm what there rates will be after 6th before i move on to other things, probably
I think that the rates should have been confirmed to you many months ago instead of waiting till the final week before it kicks in
205:
IR35 for HGV, Truck, and LGV Drivers: Here's What You Need to Know
Who’s taking a 25% reduction in there pay and who’s going to quit
Most Ltd drivers are on less money than PAYE when you factor in holiday pay and employer pension contributions given many agencies seem to think a quid an hour extra for Ltd is the way to do it.
Where I’m at Ltd are on less than PAYE even before accounting for holiday pay and employer contributions because the parity pay rules of the Agency Workers Regulations don’t apply to self employed.
Conor:
205:
IR35 for HGV, Truck, and LGV Drivers: Here's What You Need to Know
Who’s taking a 25% reduction in there pay and who’s going to quitMost Ltd drivers are on less money than PAYE when you factor in holiday pay and employer pension contributions given many agencies seem to think a quid an hour extra for Ltd is the way to do it.
Where I’m at Ltd are on less than PAYE even before accounting for holiday pay and employer contributions because the parity pay rules of the Agency Workers Regulations don’t apply to self employed.
The trouble is most don’t see that, they only see the perceived tax benefits, or fiddle it as they don’t pay tax. I’ve been LTD before, admittedly not in this industry but in one that paid a proper rate above PAYE, and tbh I wouldn’t go back to that way of being paid ever again.
As for the supposed mass exodus of LTD drivers not going back to PAYE, then good, sod off quickly, then we might see an actual real driver shortage and rates increase. But I’ll just sit here and wait to see that flying pig go past first.
The big clients have been taking on more in house drivers for months.
There’s going to be a lot less work for agency drivers as they will be deemed too expensive.
During the busy months of the year, agency drivers may be offered big bonuses but that is unlikely to make up for all the months sat at home with no work.
In the 2021/22 tax year, agencies will have to pay 13.8% employer’s national insurance contributions (NICs) when the driver earns over £170 in any one week. This could result in agencies only giving drivers one shift each week.
In case anyone doesn’t realise the nonsense that is the NI system, a driver can work one day each week for 5 different agencies, and no one will pay a penny in NICs (employer’s NICs or employee’s NICs) if he doesn’t earn more than £170 each day. This is because the £170 employer’s allowance (it’s £184 employee’s allowance) is given with every payroll that the driver is on. And unlike Income Tax, NICs aren’t annualised.
Agencies might even start paying a £170 day rate Then a driver could earn £44,200 for the year, and neither the driver or the employer will pay a penny in NICs. (providing the driver just does one shift each week for 5 different agencies).
Franglais:
robbo99.:
Will be interesting to see what the implementation of IR35 has on the private sector, as if the UK economy isn’t already in the brown stuff. What a great time to bring in sweeping changes that will result in the economy taking further hits.Why will the economy “take further hits”?
I think all would agree that the economy is in a total mess. IR35 enforcement in the private sector will only cause further problems, it’s not just the haulage sector that will be affected but many sectors. If you read the link to the original post I think you will see the perceived problems on the horizon. IR35 has been around for years, Government and HMRC have turned pretty much a blind eye on the private sector for a reason, now the fun begins. If enforced heavy handedly many professional bodies agree that the changes will cause nothing but problems to the economy.
carlston49:
This could result in agencies only giving drivers one shift each week.
In my contact I’m guaranteed 24hrs pay so are several of my fellow limpers, so maybe those drivers you mention are on the wrong contact
carlston49:
There’s going to be a lot less work for agency drivers as they will be deemed too expensive.
But they’re not though. I don’t know what you think the profit margin of agencies is but it isn’t more than £2 an hour a driver. It costs a haulage company at best a extra £30-£50 a day for an agency driver however that money is more than saved by the fact that when it’s quiet they don’t have to have them in and make jobs up for them to do unlike a permanent employee.
Agencies might even start paying a £170 day rate Then a driver could earn £44,200 for the year, and neither the driver or the employer will pay a penny in NICs. (providing the driver just does one shift each week for 5 different agencies).
Sorry but that is bollox. The driver most certainly will, especially given the lower threshold is £138 a week. HMRC will soon be sending them a letter out saying they’ve underpaid Class 2 NIC. And any driver who doesn’t pay NIC is an idiot and they’ll find that out when they don’t get their State Pension.
Conor:
205:
IR35 for HGV, Truck, and LGV Drivers: Here's What You Need to Know
Who’s taking a 25% reduction in there pay and who’s going to quitMost Ltd drivers are on less money than PAYE when you factor in holiday pay and employer pension contributions given many agencies seem to think a quid an hour extra for Ltd is the way to do it.
Where I’m at Ltd are on less than PAYE even before accounting for holiday pay and employer contributions because the parity pay rules of the Agency Workers Regulations don’t apply to self employed.
A quid to 2 quid an hour more for ltd was fine with me when I could bill FRS VAT and keep half of it as it paid the majority of the yearly tax bill - especially worthwhile over 40k vs PAYE. Since all that was knocked on the head and claimable expenses also nerfed into the weeds it’s now a waste of time unless you can bill for a fiver an hour more and there’s no way anyone is paying that.
Conor:
And any driver who doesn’t pay NIC is an idiot and they’ll find that out when they don’t get their State Pension.
I’m reasonably confident when I am due for official retirement in around 20 years time, there won’t be a State Pension to have, or at least not worth a w4nk. Those who are not paying now might be ahead of the game without realising it as they’ll still have the money in their bank account and not the government’s.
DCPCFML:
Conor:
And any driver who doesn’t pay NIC is an idiot and they’ll find that out when they don’t get their State Pension.I’m reasonably confident when I am due for official retirement in around 20 years time, there won’t be a State Pension to have, or at least not worth a w4nk. Those who are not paying now might be ahead of the game without realising it as they’ll still have the money in their bank account and not the government’s.
Those Ltd drivers who are not paying now have already lost out big time in 2020-21, more than what they’ve avoided in NI. The drivers who were doing everything they can to limit the amount of tax and NI they paid got nothing when it all went to crap. The Ltd drivers who were playing the game properly got to sit at home getting 80% of their normal income the same as employees on furlough benefitting by over £2500 per month more than those who used to bang on about how they paid no tax. One guy we didn’t see for 6 months.
robbo99.:
Franglais:
robbo99.:
Will be interesting to see what the implementation of IR35 has on the private sector, as if the UK economy isn’t already in the brown stuff. What a great time to bring in sweeping changes that will result in the economy taking further hits.Why will the economy “take further hits”?
I think all would agree that the economy is in a total mess. IR35 enforcement in the private sector will only cause further problems, it’s not just the haulage sector that will be affected but many sectors. If you read the link to the original post I think you will see the perceived problems on the horizon. IR35 has been around for years, Government and HMRC have turned pretty much a blind eye on the private sector for a reason, now the fun begins. If enforced heavy handedly many professional bodies agree that the changes will cause nothing but problems to the economy.
I still don’t see that “The economy” e.g. the national economy will take a hit?
Some companies and individuals will need to change their modus operandi, and they might take a hit, yes. But not the country as a whole.
Apart from those employing Ltd drivers, with an obvious agenda, which professional bodies are suggesting any downsides?
The fact a “loophole” hasn’t been closed quickly isn’t a reason to delay further is it? As the article says drivers, without their own truck, have long known they were, or should have been, actually employees.
Franglais:
robbo99.:
Franglais:
robbo99.:
Will be interesting to see what the implementation of IR35 has on the private sector, as if the UK economy isn’t already in the brown stuff. What a great time to bring in sweeping changes that will result in the economy taking further hits.Why will the economy “take further hits”?
I think all would agree that the economy is in a total mess. IR35 enforcement in the private sector will only cause further problems, it’s not just the haulage sector that will be affected but many sectors. If you read the link to the original post I think you will see the perceived problems on the horizon. IR35 has been around for years, Government and HMRC have turned pretty much a blind eye on the private sector for a reason, now the fun begins. If enforced heavy handedly many professional bodies agree that the changes will cause nothing but problems to the economy.
I still don’t see that “The economy” e.g. the national economy will take a hit?
Some companies and individuals will need to change their modus operandi, and they might take a hit, yes. But not the country as a whole.
Apart from those employing Ltd drivers, with an obvious agenda, which professional bodies are suggesting any downsides?
The fact a “loophole” hasn’t been closed quickly isn’t a reason to delay further is it? As the article says drivers, without their own truck, have long known they were, or should have been, actually employees.
Take a look at the mess implementing IR35 had in the public sector. Now not just haulage but the wider private sector will be affected by these new changes. How do you come to the conclusion that IR35 is a loophole?HMRC have their own agenda, although not fit for purpose they are well aware of IR35. Watch for the dodgy umbrella schemes crawling out of the woodwork now.
With the economy in its frailty do you really not see how the economy won’t be affected when if IR35 is heavily enforced will affect many. Agencies margins are pity full as they are, they will have to supply PAYE drivers at an extra cost to them, end clients will have to foot the bill for the the agency worker, a lot already on the bones of their arses. What a great time to enforce legislation that has been around for many years.
HM treasury has lost tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of pounds a year by shysters claiming to be self employed when they’re working exactly the same as the employee alongside them. That’s money the government needs to pay to do stuff which if it doesn’t get it has to borrow and ultimately then the bill for all the extra borrowing as a result of these tax dodgers falls upon the PAYE employees in this country in the form of higher taxation.
As for the economy taking a hit, PMSL. If faced with a choice of having to pay the proper tax or sitting at home with no income which do you think these whining tax dodgers and mickey mouse self employed are going to choose? Sure they talk a good talk but certainly in the IT sector all the gobshytes are now going on PAYE as companies have made it clear it’s PAYE or the door and I expect haulage to be the same especially given the same group of people also tend to be those up to their eyeballs in debt with things like their cars on chuckie.
Conor:
HM treasury has lost tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of pounds a year by shysters claiming to be self employed when they’re working exactly the same as the employee alongside them. That’s money the government needs to pay to do stuff which if it doesn’t get it has to borrow and ultimately then the bill for all the extra borrowing as a result of these tax dodgers falls upon the PAYE employees in this country in the form of higher taxation.As for the economy taking a hit, PMSL. If faced with a choice of having to pay the proper tax or sitting at home with no income which do you think these whining tax dodgers and mickey mouse self employed are going to choose? Sure they talk a good talk but certainly in the IT sector all the gobshytes are now going on PAYE as companies have made it clear it’s PAYE or the door and I expect haulage to be the same especially given the same group of people also tend to be those up to their eyeballs in debt with things like their cars on chuckie.
So HMRC have lost millions to so called shysters, that’s their own doing for not enforcing IR35 which they have had in their armoury since 2000. Easy to blame shysters when the real not fit for purpose shysters are HMRC. I’m just wondering the real definition of a shyster, could it also include a scruffy lazy slob who’s only reason to exist is to brown nose because of his inadequacies?
PYSL? There are adult nappies to help you out there.
Oh and just to clarify something, you bang on about shyster self employed bending the rules but what about the agency’s and the end clients, haven’t they facilitated this by using said shysters in order to reduce monies paid to the public ■■■■■ by not insisting on PAYE for the last 20 years?
robbo99.:
Conor:
HM treasury has lost tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of pounds a year by shysters claiming to be self employed when they’re working exactly the same as the employee alongside them. That’s money the government needs to pay to do stuff which if it doesn’t get it has to borrow and ultimately then the bill for all the extra borrowing as a result of these tax dodgers falls upon the PAYE employees in this country in the form of higher taxation.As for the economy taking a hit, PMSL. If faced with a choice of having to pay the proper tax or sitting at home with no income which do you think these whining tax dodgers and mickey mouse self employed are going to choose? Sure they talk a good talk but certainly in the IT sector all the gobshytes are now going on PAYE as companies have made it clear it’s PAYE or the door and I expect haulage to be the same especially given the same group of people also tend to be those up to their eyeballs in debt with things like their cars on chuckie.
So HMRC have lost millions to so called shysters, that’s their own doing for not enforcing IR35 which they have had in their armoury since 2000. Easy to blame shysters when the real not fit for purpose shysters are HMRC. I’m just wondering the real definition of a shyster, could it also include a scruffy lazy slob who’s only reason to exist is to brown nose because of his inadequacies?
PYSL? There are adult nappies to help you out there.
Oh and just to clarify something, you bang on about shyster self employed bending the rules but what about the agency’s and the end clients, haven’t they facilitated this by using said shysters in order to reduce monies paid to the public ■■■■■ by not insisting on PAYE for the last 20 years?
So a driver who is caught for speeding now, after years of getting away with it, should tell the authorities to continue turning a blind eye? He knew about the rules, but reckoned the enforcement was lax? The manufacturers are to blame because the truck is too powerful? His boss is to blame because he gets the job done quickly?
Franglais:
robbo99.:
Conor:
HM treasury has lost tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of pounds a year by shysters claiming to be self employed when they’re working exactly the same as the employee alongside them. That’s money the government needs to pay to do stuff which if it doesn’t get it has to borrow and ultimately then the bill for all the extra borrowing as a result of these tax dodgers falls upon the PAYE employees in this country in the form of higher taxation.As for the economy taking a hit, PMSL. If faced with a choice of having to pay the proper tax or sitting at home with no income which do you think these whining tax dodgers and mickey mouse self employed are going to choose? Sure they talk a good talk but certainly in the IT sector all the gobshytes are now going on PAYE as companies have made it clear it’s PAYE or the door and I expect haulage to be the same especially given the same group of people also tend to be those up to their eyeballs in debt with things like their cars on chuckie.
So HMRC have lost millions to so called shysters, that’s their own doing for not enforcing IR35 which they have had in their armoury since 2000. Easy to blame shysters when the real not fit for purpose shysters are HMRC. I’m just wondering the real definition of a shyster, could it also include a scruffy lazy slob who’s only reason to exist is to brown nose because of his inadequacies?
PYSL? There are adult nappies to help you out there.
Oh and just to clarify something, you bang on about shyster self employed bending the rules but what about the agency’s and the end clients, haven’t they facilitated this by using said shysters in order to reduce monies paid to the public ■■■■■ by not insisting on PAYE for the last 20 years?
So a driver who is caught for speeding now, after years of getting away with it, should tell the authorities to continue turning a blind eye? He knew about the rules, but reckoned the enforcement was lax? The manufacturers are to blame because the truck is too powerful? His boss is to blame because he gets the job done quickly?
Eh?
I do wonder if this will drive many from the industry.
I guess time will tell but for many being a ltd company driver had a lot of appeal and many had zero intention of driving full time under PAYE.
In the waiting room talks a lot of the drivers also had main jobs such as plumbers, electrians, taxi drivers. So, it worked out well for them.