Mission creep.. inward facing cameras

There’s been a bloke at our yard for a few weeks, every day, fitting something to our units. I struck up a conversation, and he’s retro fitting the direct vision gear so we can go into London. But he was also upgrading the inward facing cameras. I asked him why he was doing that, and he told me they’re no longer using SD cards, but linking them live to the office. I’ve not confirmed this with my manager, but another driver has. There’s been no word of this, we’ve not been told, God only knows what or where the official policy is.

That’s a definite line crossed for me. I just about tolerated the ‘incident cameras’ because the manager had to go to the trouble of taking the SD card out and downloading it, and would only do that if the Microlise threw up a harsh braking incident (one bloke got sacked for eating a yoghurt this way!). So in a way though we were being recorded, they turned out not to be too threatening or uncomfortable.

But now I spend 12-15 hours per night feeling very uncomfortable, as if at any moment somebody could be watching me. It’s really tapped into something deep in me that I can’t shake off. They got us semi comfortable with ‘incident cameras’, and are now introducing live cameras. I have no idea who can watch.

When I started driving artics in 2004 I had a waxy tachograph chart and a mobile phone surveying me, and that was it. Since then I’ve seen GPS trackers, remote digi tachos, live inward and outward facing cameras, extensive telematics, random drink and drug tests… I’m sure a Cat A prisoner on suicide watch in a supermax prison enjoys less surveillance.

What gets me, is that if say in 1975 all the UK’s drivers went into work Monday and their lorries had inexplicably been fitted with the surveillance tech we have today, whereas the week before all they had were paper log books, that leap would have led to pandemonium, and a lorry drivers’ strike called immediately, all for good reason. But I think of the boiling frog analogy, in that if you turn the heat up gradually, the frog in the water will gladly sit there and boil alive, seemingly oblivious to the heat.

It really is that bad.

Gonna start looking for a new job me thinks. Probably look for a shunting job somewhere, as at least I’ll have a definite finishing time and less surveillance. Either that or use my savings for a narrowboat and escape this mad society.

Just a rant. I know a couple of you will understand.

One step ahead of you on that [emoji6]
New owners have cameras fitted to their trucks and will be fitting them to my excoworkers trucks
I say that as I handed my notice in on Monday and start new job week Monday

New pastures

blue estate:
I handed my notice in on Monday

Was that decision because of those cameras? I’m assuming it is. Did you make that clear to them? What did they say?

ezydriver:

blue estate:
I handed my notice in on Monday

Was that decision because of those cameras? I’m assuming it is. Did you make that clear to them? What did they say?

One of the reasons along with an erosion of T&C’s
and toxic management culture

New pastures

blue estate:

ezydriver:

blue estate:
I handed my notice in on Monday

Was that decision because of those cameras? I’m assuming it is. Did you make that clear to them? What did they say?

One of the reasons along with an erosion of T&C’s
and toxic management culture

New pastures

Good on you mate. I hope your new job works out.

When my lot first put the inward facing ‘incident cameras’ in a couple years ago, I saw 3 drivers instantly hand their notice in.

ezydriver:

blue estate:

ezydriver:

blue estate:
I handed my notice in on Monday

Was that decision because of those cameras? I’m assuming it is. Did you make that clear to them? What did they say?

One of the reasons along with an erosion of T&C’s
and toxic management culture

New pastures

Good on you mate. I hope your new job works out.

When my lot first put the inward facing ‘incident cameras’ in a couple years ago, I saw 3 drivers instantly hand their notice in.

Thanks , I will be a rose amongst thorns as I’m the only one doing general haulage in a firm of tippers [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

New pastures

One word.
Union.

Few more words, stick together, do not accept driver facing cameras, said cameras don’t get fitted, if cameras get fitted without consultation and impact assessment then you have valid grounds for a constructive dismissal claim…the govt tell you this on the relevant .gov pages re personal survelliance.

The trouble here is that you accepted them and have been continuining to work normally, so yes i suspect your best way out is another job.

No doubt the usual suspects will be along shortly to inform us if you arn’t doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear :unamused:

Replace that giant pathetic Scania flag hanging on the back wall with one reading go ■■■■ yourself you nosy ■■■■■

cav551:
Replace that giant pathetic Scania flag hanging on the back wall with one reading go [zb] yourself you nosy [zb].

Ha ha, I’ve thought about getting hold of a Stobart’s uniform and driving in that all night.

Juddian:
One word.
Union.

Few more words, stick together, do not accept driver facing cameras, said cameras don’t get fitted, if cameras get fitted without consultation and impact assessment then you have valid grounds for a constructive dismissal claim…the govt tell you this on the relevant .gov pages re personal survelliance.

The trouble here is that you accepted them and have been continuining to work normally, so yes i suspect your best way out is another job.

No doubt the usual suspects will be along shortly to inform us if you arn’t doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear :unamused:

I agree about unionisation. I’m in a union, as are a couple other drivers, but overall most aren’t - our company certainly aren’t unionised in the classic sense. Interestingly, my old job, which was heavily unionised have hardly any surveillance in the cab. I still go in there to pick up, and chat with my old workmates, so get to know the ins and outs. I really enjoyed working there because the union was so strong. Management were constantly trying it on, were always challenged, and mostly always backed down. I’d support unionisation in any workplace. Micro surveillance and micro management in the workplace has to be one of the most dystopian things to happen to humanity. Most workplaces just feel like open prisons now.

It would be the final straw for me too I’m afraid,they can have as many outward cameras as they want on but as soon as an inward one appears(and we have a strong Union presence) I’d be leaving,I’d take a pay cut and go tramping if need be,I’ve always said this and I’d stick to it…
There is no way I’d work anywhere that practices this…

Yorkielad:
It would be the final straw for me too I’m afraid,they can have as many outward cameras as they want on but as soon as an inward one appears(and we have a strong Union presence) I’d be leaving,I’d take a pay cut and go tramping if need be,I’ve always said this and I’d stick to it…
There is no way I’d work anywhere that practices this…

One of our drivers who drives one of the brand new batch of 21 plates told me there’s a device in his unit that watches his eyes, and if he averts them for a given time, it beeps loudly. I’m yet to confirm this myself, but I’ve no reason to doubt him. I just can’t believe what’s happening. I think of the days I’d drive my dad’s Ford Cargo around customer premises, aged 12, with the customer’s knowledge and permission, and I think how happy we were doing that. They were brilliant memories. And I look now, and… I don’t know… :unamused:

I hope they have a very good data protection policy and physically secure access with an automatic log of viewing to the video feed so only named people with very good and documented reason can access it. Eg, depot manager and only after an incident / report.

Then again, for that they only need the SD card version except for extreme accidents, but they’d be investigated by the police not the office.

If you want to mess with them, suggest you need to be able to see the log on request of who’s viewed the footage and critically why. When they say what log, the one you have to keep under data protection or GDPR. Ok, its likely ballony, but its very unlikely they know that and might make them panic. :slight_smile:

trevHCS:
I hope they have a very good data protection policy and physically secure access with an automatic log of viewing to the video feed so only named people with very good and documented reason can access it. Eg, depot manager and only after an incident / report.

Then again, for that they only need the SD card version except for extreme accidents, but they’d be investigated by the police not the office.

If you want to mess with them, suggest you need to be able to see the log on request of who’s viewed the footage and critically why. When they say what log, the one you have to keep under data protection or GDPR. Ok, its likely ballony, but its very unlikely they know that and might make them panic. :slight_smile:

Exactly, SD cards were a compromise I suppose, even though I don’t excuse them. But why on earth do they need a live feed?

It’s a panopticon situation, which was originally prison architecture when prisons were reformed a few centuries ago. It’s now used on workers. Those who say if you’re doing nothing wrong you’ve got nothing to fear are deluded.

Would not feel comfortable with a camera looking at me while i work, so would never drive a truck with one, if i had to i would block it and let them sack me then i would bring them to court, it’s a win win for being in such a confined space
I also would never ever do a drug test unless they had a genuine reason for asking me to do one, never for the sake to suit themselves
The problem is not the technology it’s the drivers themselves, most follow the idea of i have no choice or I’ll follow the leader, it’s just another term for not having a brain or any common sense, it’s also unfortunate that this game attracts the low of the low that can’t think for themselves, there is no other job that has as many thicks working in it
Union is the way to go, the no brainers then have to follow the majority so everyone gains

I suggest you check with someone who knows what they are talking about.

It would be impossible to have to a live direct feed to the office from every truck, not too mention the amounts of data required to send that amount of live feed via a SIM card.

They will have a SIM card in the system that will upload any footage from a harsh brake or harsh cornering event much the same as the current system. The only difference is that short file of x minutes will be uploaded to a server for the managers to view.

So they really are not any different than the system you already have accepted.

They are also linked to an ignition live and won’t stay on for long after the ignition is turned off, so no one would be able to watch yiu when parked up for the night.

But you have 2 choices stay or leave.

Our front facing cameras are exactly the same and they are 3g not even 4g to upload footage.

simcor:
I suggest you check with someone who knows what they are talking about.

It would be impossible to have to a live direct feed to the office from every truck, not too mention the amounts of data required to send that amount of live feed via a SIM card.

They will have a SIM card in the system that will upload any footage from a harsh brake or harsh cornering event much the same as the current system. The only difference is that short file of x minutes will be uploaded to a server for the managers to view.

So they really are not any different than the system you already have accepted.

They are also linked to an ignition live and won’t stay on for long after the ignition is turned off, so no one would be able to watch yiu when parked up for the night.

But you have 2 choices stay or leave.

Our front facing cameras are exactly the same and they are 3g not even 4g to upload footage.

They wouldn’t need to have a live feed running from every truck all the time. But surely they could choose to connect to any truck any time and turn the camera on at will for, say, 5 minutes?

Our old cameras were linked with the forward facing ones. If the circuit worked we saw a solid blue light on the FF camera, anything other than a solid blue light meant the circuit was faulty, and we were obliged to report it (usually a corrupted SD card). But they’ve replaced the FF cameras too, meaning the solid blue light has gone. It seems the responsibility for reporting whether the cameras work has been removed from the drivers. If that’s the case, then surely they have the remote ability to check the camera? If they have the remote ability to do that, then surely they have the remote ability to view them at any given moment, no?

ezydriver:

simcor:
I suggest you check with someone who knows what they are talking about.

It would be impossible to have to a live direct feed to the office from every truck, not too mention the amounts of data required to send that amount of live feed via a SIM card.

They will have a SIM card in the system that will upload any footage from a harsh brake or harsh cornering event much the same as the current system. The only difference is that short file of x minutes will be uploaded to a server for the managers to view.

So they really are not any different than the system you already have accepted.

They are also linked to an ignition live and won’t stay on for long after the ignition is turned off, so no one would be able to watch yiu when parked up for the night.

But you have 2 choices stay or leave.

Our front facing cameras are exactly the same and they are 3g not even 4g to upload footage.

They wouldn’t need to have a live feed running from every truck all the time. But surely they could choose to connect to any truck any time and turn the camera on at will for, say, 5 minutes?

Our old cameras were linked with the forward facing ones. If the circuit worked we saw a solid blue light on the FF camera, anything other than a solid blue light meant the circuit was faulty, and we were obliged to report it (usually a corrupted SD card). But they’ve replaced the FF cameras too, meaning the solid blue light has gone. It seems the responsibility for reporting whether the cameras work has been removed from the drivers. If that’s the case, then surely they have the remote ability to check the camera? If they have the remote ability to do that, then surely they have the remote ability to view them at any given moment, no?

Like I said there is no way to remotely connect to a live feed of our front facing cameras. And secondly do you really think someone would have to time to spend all day remotely connecting to cameras for no reason at all just to check up on people?

As I said most work on 3G which is incredibly slow for the reasonable high quality footage from cameras these days. It juts wouldn’t be very practical currently.

Unless trucks were fitted with 4G or 5G WiFi then it is extremely unlikely to anywhere near that advanced or capable.

simcor:

ezydriver:

simcor:
I suggest you check with someone who knows what they are talking about.

It would be impossible to have to a live direct feed to the office from every truck, not too mention the amounts of data required to send that amount of live feed via a SIM card.

They will have a SIM card in the system that will upload any footage from a harsh brake or harsh cornering event much the same as the current system. The only difference is that short file of x minutes will be uploaded to a server for the managers to view.

So they really are not any different than the system you already have accepted.

They are also linked to an ignition live and won’t stay on for long after the ignition is turned off, so no one would be able to watch yiu when parked up for the night.

But you have 2 choices stay or leave.

Our front facing cameras are exactly the same and they are 3g not even 4g to upload footage.

They wouldn’t need to have a live feed running from every truck all the time. But surely they could choose to connect to any truck any time and turn the camera on at will for, say, 5 minutes?

Our old cameras were linked with the forward facing ones. If the circuit worked we saw a solid blue light on the FF camera, anything other than a solid blue light meant the circuit was faulty, and we were obliged to report it (usually a corrupted SD card). But they’ve replaced the FF cameras too, meaning the solid blue light has gone. It seems the responsibility for reporting whether the cameras work has been removed from the drivers. If that’s the case, then surely they have the remote ability to check the camera? If they have the remote ability to do that, then surely they have the remote ability to view them at any given moment, no?

Like I said there is no way to remotely connect to a live feed of our front facing cameras. And secondly do you really think someone would have to time to spend all day remotely connecting to cameras for no reason at all just to check up on people?

As I said most work on 3G which is incredibly slow for the reasonable high quality footage from cameras these days. It juts wouldn’t be very practical currently.

Unless trucks were fitted with 4G or 5G WiFi then it is extremely unlikely to anywhere near that advanced or capable.

Ok, well, I’ll do some investigation and get the info on them to ascertain all this. Even if we’re on 3G now, how long before 5G is used for this very purpose? hence the thread title. How long before every truck is on a constant live feed? 2 years? 5 years? That this will happen is very unsettling. I fully expect it from my lot.

I don’t think somebody is spending all day connecting to the cameras. It’s that they can connect, and I wouldn’t or couldn’t know which bothers me.

It’s times like these am so glad I work for a small family run business that still obeys rules and regs as they have to but doesn’t go over the top like this. During a post work Friday pint with our gaffer (imagine that, we not only know his name unlike the blue chip lot but he is actually on our level) he mentioned in cab cameras becoming more frequent… at which point one of our drivers pointed out if he had one he would be sat naked as much as possible and he would stick his arse right up to the camera. Boss laughed and said good job I trust you lot and leave you to run your week yourselves. Job done