Who’s responsible for handballing stuff off truck?
We have new manager/owner only small firm 5 trucks.
Went to a drop Friday 5 pallets pallets were to heavy to move with pump.truck over 1t per pallet.
Rang office said deliver has.no forklift to heavy to move have be broken down hanballed off.
Reply got was that’s fine if they handball take it off your truck…
your not covered or insured to do it if.you fall have an accident your not covered and it’s on. Your head if you injury yourself.
For years if anythings had be hanballed I’ve always been on truck opened pallets passed stuff down. To the customer.
As way I see it it my truck I’m.trained to be on the back Jo public isn’t
What would happen if they injured themselves?
So who’s right here? I think it’s me.
And anyway in the end I did help as far as office are.concerend I just sat there feet up watching.
Personally I get up and help on the rare occasions handballing is needed, I know several at our place that won’t and would rather bring it back.
As with you the insurance etc comes into play but I’ve always been of the opinion that if possible a job gets done, it’s really not rocket science to keep everyone safe.
Who is responsible depends on the contract your company has with the supplier and delivery point. So for example everyone who delivered to Netto RDC was responsible for unloading their own vehicle but the usual arrangement is the delivery point is responsible for getting it off your truck.
If they’re supposed to unload it and they get injured that’s not your problem. As for you not being insured, in law that’s wrong unless it’s specifically written down somewhere - I’ve had it written into my employment contracts before at a couple of spots. Basically without that you are but your company don’t want you doing it because they don’t want you injuring yourself and leaving them without a driver.
As someone who has a knackered back and has suffered for years and has had to have periods of time off work including last year when I had to have an emergency spinal op on a knackered disc I’m not volunteering to unload anything. If a delivery point is so bad that they cannot make sure they’ve got mechanical handling systems to take off 1 tonne pallets of stuff I’m not handballing a tonne of goods 25-50kg at a time. That’s 20-40 opportunities per pallet to bugger your back up all because the delivery point is too tight fisted to spend money on the proper tool to do the job.
wrighty1:
Personally I get up and help on the rare occasions handballing is needed, I know several at our place that won’t and would rather bring it back.
As with you the insurance etc comes into play but I’ve always been of the opinion that if possible a job gets done, it’s really not rocket science to keep everyone safe.
Sent from my SM-G960F using
Tapatalk
Excalty my thoughts only rang office to say be here half an hour or so.
Plus also if was left to customer to.do thed take there time.
If I’m there doing it makes them.move quicker.
I think we’re a dying breed most want do as little as possible
Conor:
Who is responsible depends on the contract your company has with the supplier and delivery point. So for example everyone who delivered to Netto RDC was responsible for unloading their own vehicle but the usual arrangement is the delivery point is responsible for getting it off your truck.
If they’re supposed to unload it and they get injured that’s not your problem. As for you not being insured, in law that’s wrong unless it’s specifically written down somewhere - I’ve had it written into my employment contracts before at a couple of spots. Basically without that you are but your company don’t want you doing it because they don’t want you injuring yourself and leaving them without a driver.
As someone who has a knackered back and has suffered for years and has had to have periods of time off work including last year when I had to have an emergency spinal op on a knackered disc I’m not volunteering to unload anything. If a delivery point is so bad that they cannot make sure they’ve got mechanical handling systems to take off 1 tonne pallets of stuff I’m not handballing a tonne of goods 25-50kg at a time. That’s 20-40 opportunities per pallet to bugger your back up all because the delivery point is too tight fisted to spend money on the proper tool to do the job.
It’s not usually the rdc or business units that are the issue, more the kerbside drops etc. Sometimes these things just happen, obviously if you have back problems etc you wouldn’t do it.
edd1974:
I think we’re a dying breed most want do as little as possible
Some of us unfortunately have had to learn the hard way why you don’t. I’ve now only got partial use of my left leg and almost permanent sciatic pain to some degree despite two back ops as a direct result of years of dragging over 1 tonne pallets about with pump trucks, handballing loads off, ■■■■■■■ sheets up onto the tops of packs of timber, jumping on and off the backs of trailers that didn’t have steps.
Sadly I’m unable to let someone spend a day in my shoes because I can guarantee if you did you’d have a change of mind. It pains me that I see others doing what I used to do and treating it like a badge of honour when the reality is that in the 21st Century the only reason you’re having to do it is because the boss of wherever you’re delivering to wants to put more money in their pocket by scrimping on buying the tools needed to do the job. There’s nothing to be proud about leaving yourself looking at spending the latter half of your life including all your retirement suffering from back problems that cause you suffering and restrict what you can do and looking at the number of lorry drivers who have back problems far too many are doing stupid stuff like this.
wrighty1:
It’s not usually the rdc or business units that are the issue, more the kerbside drops etc.
But if you’re having to handball the stuff off the pallets we’re back to that being because the boss is too tight fisted to invest in the kit but this time it’s yours. I spent a while on agency working for a company that made gravestones. They used to be loaded on pallets on a flatbed rigid with drop sides and you’d deliver them to the various undertakers and sometimes cemetaries and the odd private house. Sometimes these undertakers would be in a city centre. Because you’d never expect these places in a month of sundays to have a forklift the lorry had a tailgate lift on the back and one with the fold down ramps on the side so you could deliver to the kerbside using a pallet truck. They didn’t expect their drivers to handball gravestones off the back, they provided the kit so you didn’t.
edd1974:
Reply got was that’s fine if they handball take it off your truck…
your not covered or insured to do it if.
Wait, you’re insured to use the pump truck but not handle individual items? what if a pallet spills during transit, are you allowed to restack the top row or do you have to go back to the yard and let the insured people handle it? I only ever had to “handball” once, because their forklift was too small for the weight of of the pallet so we (me, the flt driver and his boss) split the load in 2 half pallets. All in less time it would’ve taken me to call the office, wait to be transferred to Mr.X who might know, who might have to check with Y and wait for a call back which won’t come, call them again and wait again to speak to Mr.X. to finally be “authorised”
Being helpful and flexible used to be the name of the game, but sadly now if anything goes wrong neither your employer or the guy you’re doing a favour for will support you if you or someone else gets hurt. Could cost you your wages/sick pay or your job. I’d ask your union rep (if you have one) or your boss to put what you can or can’t do in writing (signed on headed paper) so you cover yourself. Personally, at our place, our responsibility ends at the trailer door or the bridging plate on a dock. The trailer interior is mine and I have been known to tell a third party to get off my trailer.
If it’s too heavy to move as one pallet whatever happened to throwing an empty pallet on the back and splitting it into two pallets? Then use the the pump truck to get them off, usually after the first drop you’ll have empty pallets that the customer has sent back, especially if they’re blue cheps.
When I did the Rank Hovis flour contract most of it was handball, throwing 2-3 bags of flour over you shoulder and carry it into the customers premises which where usually small family bakers. They where either 16kg or 25kg bags, or 65 x 16kg or 40 x25kg bags per tonne, I only got a drivers mate if it was at least 3 tonnes at a drop. There where regular 4-6 drops that where below 3 tonnes, so you just broke down the pallet and stacked the bags 6 high along the edge of the truck bed and with your back to the stack slide 2-3 bags onto your shoulder and off you go. It was only medium- large sites that had a forklift and even then most where rated at less than 1 tonne.
I struggle to get the logic of the managers statement. I assume you are a full time employee driving their vehicle? delivering their goods?
They are legally bound to have full insurance cover including liability insurance for you. If it were a shipping container, you would be delivering goods and container that are the property (albeit, temporarily in the case of the ctr) of the consignee, so you would be in a difficult position if you injured yourself whilst in the back of it.
Ask your manager to define exactly what it is you can and cannot do. Whatever it is, they cannot wriggle out of their liability if you get injured in the course of your normal duties as a delivery driver. As for other people on the back of your vehicle, they should be speaking to their managers to see if their liability cover extends to cover them for any injury. I am pretty sure that if they came to your co wanting to claim, your insurers would say they should not be there in the first place.
Whilst your enthusiasm and willingness to help is to be applauded (that isn’t a mickey take by the way), you were instructed not to assist in the handballing, if you’d gone arse over head off the wagon or otherwise hurt yourself, easily life changing, your compensatory claim has just become aeons harder.
There might be good reason the company take this unusual line, maybe they’ve had dealings with the customer before and know there’s some ■■■■ taking by said customer going on here.
Yes back in the day we worked bloody hard lumping stuff around, handballing 21 tons of cwt+ bags on and off was a regular thing, lifting all sorts of crap onto and off wagon decks all roped and sheeted or chained on… decks which never had steps or ladders in those days so clambering up and jumping off from heights, hauling bloody great wagons around with no powersteering and no assistance on the clutch pedal, when in your 60s after a lifetime of that crap and you can barely sleep 6 hours a night (and that broken) because your joints give you hell after lying down for several hours, all that hard work comes back and bites you in the arse and you’ll wish you hadn’t done it.
Juddian:
Yes back in the day we worked bloody hard lumping stuff around, handballing 21 tons of cwt+ bags on and off was a regular thing, lifting all sorts of crap onto and off wagon decks all roped and sheeted or chained on… decks which never had steps or ladders in those days so clambering up and jumping off from heights, hauling bloody great wagons around with no powersteering and no assistance on the clutch pedal, when in your 60s after a lifetime of that crap and you can barely sleep 6 hours a night (and that broken) because your joints give you hell after lying down for several hours, all that hard work comes back and bites you in the arse and you’ll wish you hadn’t done it.
…but, the number of “lorry drivers” these days who couldn’t do it; so many these days look like they struggle to find the strength to stand upright and if you gave them a 56lb bag of anything they either wouldn’t be able to lift it - or would collapse ‘under the weight’ (and, before anyone says anything, I know that the limit got reduced because they were 'Too heavy!).
Other day, I saw a box on a pallet which was about 2 foot long by about a foot square which had printed on the side “10KG. HEAVY. Consider 2 person lift”. Really■■?
The youth of today wouldn’t know hard work if it bit them on the ar$e.
Win-Stone:
…but, the number of “lorry drivers” these days who couldn’t do it; so many these days look like they struggle to find the strength to stand upright and if you gave them a 56lb bag of anything they either wouldn’t be able to lift it - or would collapse ‘under the weight’ (and, before anyone says anything, I know that the limit got reduced because they were 'Too heavy!).
Other day, I saw a box on a pallet which was about 2 foot long by about a foot square which had printed on the side “10KG. HEAVY. Consider 2 person lift”. Really■■?
But that’s why when they’re in their 60s they won’t be in the same sorry state we are.
… but I know what you mean about aches and pains!
Words fail me, there’s some real mental gymnastics going on with you. You mock stuff like the example of the box whilst suffering personally because you did stuff in the past and ended up injured from it which things like that H&S message on the box are there to help to prevent and that’s a bad thing?
If the H&S around manual handling that’s around now was around 40 years ago there’d be 10,000s of lorry drivers today without any of the musculo-skeletal issues they have.
Win-Stone:
…but, the number of “lorry drivers” these days who couldn’t do it; so many these days look like they struggle to find the strength to stand upright and if you gave them a 56lb bag of anything they either wouldn’t be able to lift it - or would collapse ‘under the weight’ (and, before anyone says anything, I know that the limit got reduced because they were 'Too heavy!).
Other day, I saw a box on a pallet which was about 2 foot long by about a foot square which had printed on the side “10KG. HEAVY. Consider 2 person lift”. Really■■?
But that’s why when they’re in their 60s they won’t be in the same sorry state we are.
… but I know what you mean about aches and pains!
Words fail me, there’s some real mental gymnastics going on with you. You mock stuff like the example of the box whilst suffering personally because you did stuff in the past and ended up injured from it which things like that H&S message on the box are there to help to prevent and that’s a bad thing?
If the H&S around manual handling that’s around now was around 40 years ago there’d be 10,000s of lorry drivers today without any of the musculo-skeletal issues they have.
Wow! …And where did I say I ended up injured from it?
…and where did I say I was suffering?
Try reading what people post - and not what you think they post.
This is the year 2021 not 1921. I have been on numerous Manual Handling courses and they all state that mechanical ways of loading should be used as much as possible. The cost to the nation because workers are having back pain was if memory serves me right about £10 BILLION.
It’s all well and good saying “In my day blah blah” or “I aint afraid of hard work unlike todays youngsters” etc, but if your back goes its bloody painfull and you may end up unable to work again so living a life of poverty on benefits! All because somebody couldnt be bothered to buy a powered mechanical means to unload THEIR goods!
At the end of the day you as a workers have got to start looking after your health because no other bugger will!
I find it very odd when employers say your not insured on the back of your truck.
So does that mean your only insured for accidents that occur while you are driving?
If a strap hits you in the face and knocks a few teeth out while you are unstrapping your curtain sider are you insured?
Or do you have to be physically in the back of the truck doing manual labour for it to be classed as ‘non insurance covered work’.
Personally, I help out with unloading. But if my employer tells me I am not insured then I probably wont help out.
Passengers are not insured - Yes they are, the same as the driver and the bloke on the footpath walking past with his dog. Public Liability covers injury, loss of earnings, loss of life and contamination
I see the issue here could be at the place you are delivering to, it may be “your” vehicle, but if they have any working at height conditions or H&S rules, they will prevent you climbing on the back without, fall arrest, restraint, harness, guard rails etc.
The days of getting someone to lift you and a tarpaulin up on the fork tines have gone, the driver climbing up a stack of bags to roll a sheet out, or climb up the back of a muckaway tipper to even the load, gone!
Yes I’m full time been with said company 4 years or so small company 5 trucks
.I don’t have a problem handballing stuff.off never had an issue.
But since the owner sold.up and we have new owners.
Just taken aback buy his comments let delivery point get it off.
which varies from.warehouse units. Lock up units etc no RDC stuff.
He’s saying if has be handled the onus is on who ever is at an other end not on me.
Surley the law is my truck I’m trained if I do happen to fall then obviously.covered by works.insurance.
But if say customer gets on truck slips off . Then who does he claim from?
Guess it’s a mine field.
But my view is I should be doing it there not trained or insured to.
Unless I’m wrong?
If I’ve read it right the guvnor is saying the customer doesn’t have a forklift that’s the customer’s problem not yours.If the customer wants to handball it all off fine let them get on with it ?.
As oppose to the guvnor saying it’s in your contract or they’ve got a bs third party ‘agreement’ with a ‘union’ with no consultation so you have to do it.If/when your spine eventually lets go that’s your problem.Been there done that.
If it’s the former you’re in a dead man’s shoes job with a decent guvnor.Take his advice.
If it’s the latter bring it back to the yard park it up and walk away.
It’s not your problem Edd, your gaffer told you not to handball and to let them get on with it, your responsibility for what happens has ended at that point regarding those unloading, grab a coffee if there’s one kicking about and relax.
I love gaffers like that, give me plain instructions, no umming and ahhing. Do this don’t do that, superb mate so long as i follow the intructions i’m untouchable, learned this a long long ago on my forst big company, so long as a manager OK’d it you could get away with anything.
I only ever had to “handball” once, because their forklift was too small for the weight of of the pallet so we (me, the flt driver and his boss) split the load in 2 half pallets. All in less time it would’ve taken me to call the office, wait to be transferred to Mr.X who might know, who might have to check with Y and wait for a call back which won’t come, call them again and wait again to speak to Mr.X. to finally be “authorised”