Driving hours

Morning all

I’ve been off the road for a while and before that done 4 on 4 off but back now on 5 days or so I am told is this legal for weekly rest -

45 24 24 45 and pay back hours owed I’ve been told so many different things

Thanks for any help

Yes, can be legal. Full rest period required in every other FIXED week.

So if I have a full rest period this weekend that’s the rest for fixed week 1. Reduced rest next weekend and then a reduced rest the weekend after and that’s the rest for fixed week 2. Then a full rest period the weekend after is the full rest period for fixed week 3.

Reductions need to be compensated for by adding the reduction to any rest period of 9 hours.

It seems like the example is where the 45 hour rests are tacked on the beginning and end of 3 fixed weeks. It is possible to do this yes.

Harry Monk:
Yes, can be legal. Full rest period required in every other FIXED week.

So if I have a full rest period this weekend that’s the rest for fixed week 1. Reduced rest next weekend and then a reduced rest the weekend after and that’s the rest for fixed week 2. Then a full rest period the weekend after is the full rest period for fixed week 3.

But you’ve got 2 weeks in a row with reduced weekly rest. You’ve described a 4 week period with 2 reduced weekly rests in the middle which is not legal. A fixed week is from 00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday, not just 7 days from when you put your card in from the first day of the new week.

From gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours

The below is legal because the weekly rest in the first week was Mon-Tue, Mon and Sunday in the second week then Sat/Sun in the third week.

But you’re not describing that. You’re describing weekly rests every fixed week on a Sat/Sun or Sat&Sun which means you’ve only one rest period in every fixed week. So that means that unlike the above example you’ve a single rest period in every fixed week so in your case you’re not taking the legally required 45hrs every other week.

Conor:

Harry Monk:
Yes, can be legal. Full rest period required in every other FIXED week.

So if I have a full rest period this weekend that’s the rest for fixed week 1. Reduced rest next weekend and then a reduced rest the weekend after and that’s the rest for fixed week 2. Then a full rest period the weekend after is the full rest period for fixed week 3.

But you’ve got 2 weeks in a row with reduced weekly rest. You’ve described a 4 week period with 2 reduced weekly rests in the middle which is not legal. A fixed week is from 00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday, not just 7 days from when you put your card in from the first day of the new week.

From gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours

The below is legal because the weekly rest in the first week was Mon-Tue, Mon and Sunday in the second week then Sat/Sun in the third week.

But you’re not describing that. You’re describing weekly rests every fixed week on a Sat/Sun or Sat&Sun which means you’ve only one rest period in every fixed week. So that means that unlike the above example you’ve a single rest period in every fixed week so in your case you’re not taking the legally required 45hrs every other week.

If only there was a thing where drivers could spend a few hours in the classroom every five years learning tachograph rules… oh, wait!

I am having a 45 hour rest period this weekend. This rest straddles 23:59 Sunday- 00:00 Monday. I can attach this rest period to either of the fixed weeks it straddles, last week or next week. I’ll attach it to the fixed week ahead. Next weekend I’ll have a reduced rest period. Then I’ll go to work again. The following weekend I’ll have another reduced rest. This will be at the end of fixed week 2.

Then I will go to work again on Monday and work fixed week 3. At the end of fixed week 3 I will have a nice long weekend rest, paying back the hours I reduced my rest by over the previous two weekends. I have had a reduced rest on two consecutive weekends but a full rest in every other fixed week, weeks 1 and 3.

If you have a regular at the start of week 1 for week 1 with a reduced at the start and end of week 2 then a regular at the end of week 3 for week 3 - you do not have to compensate for one of the reduced ones

this is assuming all the weekly rests include sunday midnights

You are right, I didn’t explain it quite as correctly as I could have. But Conor has this bee in his bonnet whereby he repeatedly states that it is illegal to have a sub-45 hour rest period on two consecutive weekends, and this is quite simply incorrect. He compounds this error by lambasting drivers, often aggressively and insultingly, who do not understand other aspects of tachograph law.

As the Bible tells us, “Why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?” :wink:

Harry Monk:
You are right, I didn’t explain it quite as correctly as I could have. But Conor has this bee in his bonnet whereby he repeatedly states that it is illegal to have a sub-45 hour rest period on two consecutive weekends, and this is quite simply incorrect. He compounds this error by lambasting drivers who do not understand other aspects of tachograph law.

To be fair to Conor - in the normal run of shifts over a long period doing regular reduced reduced regular would be illegal

ROG:

Harry Monk:
You are right, I didn’t explain it quite as correctly as I could have. But Conor has this bee in his bonnet whereby he repeatedly states that it is illegal to have a sub-45 hour rest period on two consecutive weekends, and this is quite simply incorrect. He compounds this error by lambasting drivers who do not understand other aspects of tachograph law.

To be fair to Conor - in the normal run of shifts over a long period doing regular reduced reduced regular would be illegal

I agree with that too. But after any rest period which straddles midnight Sunday in which the driver has had 90 hours off, for example when returning from holiday or a long weekend, it is perfectly legal to reduce the weekly rest period below 45 hours over any two weekends, should the driver choose to. To state that it cannot be legal to ever have two sub-45 hour weekend rests is incorrect, as I’m sure you would agree.

Harry Monk:

ROG:

Harry Monk:
You are right, I didn’t explain it quite as correctly as I could have. But Conor has this bee in his bonnet whereby he repeatedly states that it is illegal to have a sub-45 hour rest period on two consecutive weekends, and this is quite simply incorrect. He compounds this error by lambasting drivers who do not understand other aspects of tachograph law.

To be fair to Conor - in the normal run of shifts over a long period doing regular reduced reduced regular would be illegal

I agree with that too. But after any rest period which straddles midnight Sunday in which the driver has had 90 hours off, for example when returning from holiday or a long weekend, it is perfectly legal to reduce the weekly rest period below 45 hours over any two weekends, should the driver choose to. To state that it cannot be legal to ever have two sub-45 hour weekend rests is incorrect, as I’m sure you would agree.

I agree :smiley:

I had a week and a bit where I did alternate days. The break each time was approx 30 hours. So I didn’t get a 45 in that week. If I have a 32 hr rest then work a day and then another 30hr rest can I count the 30 as a 11 hr daily rest and use the remaining 19 to compensate the 32 therefore a full rest? I’m told you can compensate by adding on to a daily but what if it’s in the same week as the reduced weekly does it still count?

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spacemanZ10:
I had a week and a bit where I did alternate days. The break each time was approx 30 hours. So I didn’t get a 45 in that week. If I have a 32 hr rest then work a day and then another 30hr rest can I count the 30 as a 11 hr daily rest and use the remaining 19 to compensate the 32 therefore a full rest? I’m told you can compensate by adding on to a daily but what if it’s in the same week as the reduced weekly does it still count?

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You can’t make a 45 hour rest period by adding together two shorter rest periods. Regardless of what other rest periods you have had, you have to have a continuous 45 hour rest period in every other fixed week.

Harry Monk:

spacemanZ10:
I had a week and a bit where I did alternate days. The break each time was approx 30 hours. So I didn’t get a 45 in that week. If I have a 32 hr rest then work a day and then another 30hr rest can I count the 30 as a 11 hr daily rest and use the remaining 19 to compensate the 32 therefore a full rest? I’m told you can compensate by adding on to a daily but what if it’s in the same week as the reduced weekly does it still count?

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You can’t make a 45 hour rest period by adding together two shorter rest periods. Regardless of what other rest periods you have had, you have to have a continuous 45 hour rest period in every other fixed week.

Understood, can I pay it back in the same week or does it have to be a new week? Thanks

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spacemanZ10:
Understood, can I pay it back in the same week or does it have to be a new week? Thanks

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You can pay it back in the same week, yes.

Harry Monk:
I am having a 45 hour rest period this weekend. This rest straddles 23:59 Sunday- 00:00 Monday. I can attach this rest period to either of the fixed weeks it straddles, last week or next week. I’ll attach it to the fixed week ahead. Next weekend I’ll have a reduced rest period. Then I’ll go to work again. The following weekend I’ll have another reduced rest. This will be at the end of fixed week 2.

Then I will go to work again on Monday and work fixed week 3. At the end of fixed week 3 I will have a nice long weekend rest, paying back the hours I reduced my rest by over the previous two weekends. I have had a reduced rest on two consecutive weekends but a full rest in every other fixed week, weeks 1 and 3.

It’d be handy to see that in pictorial form (a picture paints a thousand words…) I’m no stranger to Driver’s Hours but (no offence to your communication skills) I cant clearly see how that works, unless you’re having a prior 45 hour rest period in the fixed week that leads up to the one that “straddles 23:59 Sunday- 00:00 Monday”?

Harry Monk:
You can pay it back in the same week, yes.

Perhaps a philosophical or pedantic point but…
Why is it that most of the time, most drivers think in terms of the driver paying something back?
I’ve always looked at it in terms of the driver being paid back the rest he is owed, not something he owes

Zac_A:
It’d be handy to see that in pictorial form (a picture paints a thousand words…) I’m no stranger to Driver’s Hours but (no offence to your communication skills) I cant clearly see how that works, unless you’re having a prior 45 hour rest period in the fixed week that leads up to the one that “straddles 23:59 Sunday- 00:00 Monday”?

Of course what you do in the discussed 3 weeks has implications for before and after. I think the point is that it is theoretically possible to take a 24 hour rest on two following weekends. ROG and Harry Monk have discussed this at length if you look at the other posts above.

I’m all for considering theoretical schedules, but it doesn’t alter the fact that, if the aim is to educate, then such matters are more easily assimilated by the use of images rather than just text. There’s no shortage of people who post on here either claiming or demonstrating an inadequate grasp of the essentials of drivers hours.

The way to remember it is you must have made your hours up that you have reduced by the end of the third week with week 1 being the week you reduced your rest

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Zac_A:

Harry Monk:
I am having a 45 hour rest period this weekend. This rest straddles 23:59 Sunday- 00:00 Monday. I can attach this rest period to either of the fixed weeks it straddles, last week or next week. I’ll attach it to the fixed week ahead. Next weekend I’ll have a reduced rest period. Then I’ll go to work again. The following weekend I’ll have another reduced rest. This will be at the end of fixed week 2.

Then I will go to work again on Monday and work fixed week 3. At the end of fixed week 3 I will have a nice long weekend rest, paying back the hours I reduced my rest by over the previous two weekends. I have had a reduced rest on two consecutive weekends but a full rest in every other fixed week, weeks 1 and 3.

It’d be handy to see that in pictorial form (a picture paints a thousand words…) I’m no stranger to Driver’s Hours but (no offence to your communication skills) I cant clearly see how that works, unless you’re having a prior 45 hour rest period in the fixed week that leads up to the one that “straddles 23:59 Sunday- 00:00 Monday”?

I don’t have the means to upload an image but you can easily draw one yourself. Draw a three fixed week period with a 45 hour weekend rest period at the beginning of fixed week 1 and a 45 hour weekend rest period at the end of fixed week 3. In between these two rest periods there will be two other weekends and on both of these weekends you can take a sub-45 hour rest period while still satisfying the requirement to have a full rest period in every other fixed week.