For real. I remember talking to a self-proclaimed master of reversing Romanian driver who told me a story of how he got to know a shunter and after many years of getting to know him he finally revealed an ancient secret trick for spinning it on a dime in reverse - it involved something about placing an object on the imaginary extension of the line on your close side (assuming a good side reverse), then planting your middle wheel on it (just so it’s behind your middle trailer wheel) but I couldn’t quite understand what he was trying to tell me. Anyone know this trick and can you explain to me please? 10 times out of 10 on a tight reverse I’ll hold the angle for too long and end up with my trailer on the line but cab still at an angle so no good. He was saying something like when the middle wheel is there you stop and start to straighten…? Not sure as there was a bit of a problem communicating
ETS:
For real. I remember talking to a self-proclaimed master of reversing Romanian driver who told me a story of how he got to know a shunter and after many years of getting to know him he finally revealed an ancient secret trick for spinning it on a dime in reverse - it involved something about placing an object on the imaginary extension of the line on your close side (assuming a good side reverse), then planting your middle wheel on it (just so it’s behind your middle trailer wheel) but I couldn’t quite understand what he was trying to tell me. Anyone know this trick and can you explain to me please? 10 times out of 10 on a tight reverse I’ll hold the angle for too long and end up with my trailer on the line but cab still at an angle so no good. He was saying something like when the middle wheel is there you stop and start to straighten…? Not sure as there was a bit of a problem communicating
For real?
If you are always too late in chasing off the trailer? Then you know what to do: take the angle off earlier.
Trying to master little tricks and cheats may get you through a test, but not use for much else IMHO.
Franglais:
For real?
If you are always too late in chasing off the trailer? Then you know what to do: take the angle off earlier.
Trying to master little tricks and cheats may get you through a test, but not use for much else IMHO.
But then I end up not getting enough of an angle so I overshoot the gap. It’s not like I reverse into the same space every day, I need some fool proof rule of thumb. There has to be one. I am ready to learn the secret.
You’re watching the trailer and not the wheels, remember on a tandem the trailer pivots at a point between the two axles, on a triple it pivots on the middle axle, assuming the ground is level and ground grip doesn’t vary.
Yes you have to keep an eye on the trailer itself to make sure you account for overhang and don’t hit summat, but concentrate mainly on the wheels, i’ve used a single steering axle urban trailer and if you watched the trailer body you’d end up in the bay next to the one you wanted, watch the wheels instead and easy peasy.
If you have a lifting axle on a triple axle trailer it can make life easier dropping that axle down, either by manual valve or if autolifter by momentarily turning the engine off.
Where even experienced people go wrong is they try to get the arse end of the trailer to enter the gap too soon, that leads to a very difficult juggling exercise and likelihood of your trailer nsr corner hitting something blind to you, leave entering the bay as late as is reasonable and imagine the line you want the wheels to end up on as being extended out from the bay itself, you want the centre axle of a triple to be edging onto that line with the trailer almost straight as far as possible out from the bay, the angle your unit is at that point can be altered by very small shunts barely affecting the trailer angle.
There is no magic rule, apart from knowing trailer pivot points, its practice and practice every day when you don’t need to especially blind sides.
Note, when maneuvering loaded transfer the weight from the mid lift or tag axle to the drive axle on the tractor unit, you’ll find it turns much easier you get better traction and it’s kinder on the vehicle as well as being dare i say a professional approach, some makes will lift the axle fully even loaded (MAN DAF) some makes won’t lift fully but the mid lift has no weight imposed so causes no drag, some inferior vehicles you have no option to do this.
ETS:
Franglais:
For real?
If you are always too late in chasing off the trailer? Then you know what to do: take the angle off earlier.
Trying to master little tricks and cheats may get you through a test, but not use for much else IMHO.But then I end up not getting enough of an angle so I overshoot the gap. It’s not like I reverse into the same space every day, I need some fool proof rule of thumb. There has to be one. I am ready to learn the secret.
Yep the trailer more or less spins around the axis of the centre trailer axle assuming a tri axle.
But you’ll only use that rule in the case of tight turns into a tight slot.Otherwise it’s just like reversing it through a wide bend you’re not spinning it through a tight turn.
What you’re describing is making the unit follow it in either case.If you’re spinning the trailer through a tight turn on or close to it’s centre axle axis then it’s not just a question of timing that right you’ll need lots of lock to follow it like all it’s got.Sounds like you’re not using enough lock and/or at the right time.Take it off slighty earlier than you’re doing and give it all it’s got full lock on the stop then try it.Bearing in mind that lines are very dependent on unit wheelbase etc and little differences can mean a lot.A 6 x 2 unit obviously ain’t going to turn like a 4 x 2 for example it needs a lot more lock to get the same effect and applied a bit earlier.
ETS:
Franglais:
For real?
If you are always too late in chasing off the trailer? Then you know what to do: take the angle off earlier.
Trying to master little tricks and cheats may get you through a test, but not use for much else IMHO.But then I end up not getting enough of an angle so I overshoot the gap. It’s not like I reverse into the same space every day, I need some fool proof rule of thumb. There has to be one. I am ready to learn the secret.
As Juddian says it is all practise, lots of it.
If you either take it off too late, or too early, you are straddling the correct point. Finesse it. Or am I mis-understanding?
It’s very common and very easy to “over steer” when reversing. I do hundreds of reverses per week and still fall foul of it, so don’t beat yourself up about it. Always remember when reversing to use as little steering input as you can get away with! Everything you put into the steering you have to take out at some point.
One thing to bear in mind though is that most reversing fails start on the going forward bit, not the going backwards bit. Try to use the available space in front of you to set up the trailer position before you engage reverse.
OK I see it’s either a very well kept or a largely unknown one. If it’s that big of a deal PM me the Secret, I won’t tell anyone I swear. I’m almost as bad as I was 3 months ago when I started. Going back and forth for 15 min. until I finally luckily ‘‘nail the moment’’ ain’t no fun. And with 2 more corrections at that when there’s 1m in front between the bumper and the barrier. Some guy comes before me (obviously he goes into that space every night) and does a full 90 with cab < 90 relative to the trailer, 1 correction - boom he’s in and I’ve seen 1 other guy do it elsewhere. Yes I know to look at the middle wheel and not the trailer, I only look at the trailer to make sure it’s not about to hit anything. Yes I know about middle axle on tractor etc. What I’m asking is the pivot point, assuming you have an endless line. One of our drivers told me when your middle (trailer) wheel is on the line, start straightening but that’s way too late.
That Romanian guy was on about the FRONT trailer axle, not the middle one…Stop your front wheel before the mark, he said (or something similar) - learn to do that and no space will ever be too tight, you’ll always have room at the front (of the unit) when chasing. I mean 90 degree reverse because that’s literally all you have space for not because it looks cool haha. hardly any room for ‘‘little input’’, hard jacknife and then start chasing at the PERFECT time or you miss the gap and have to start over
and over
and over
while the loaders are sitting on the stairs outside having a laugh enjoying their downtime. I mean when I get there they just go for a coffee/cig because they know it will be 10-20 mins before they can start loading me 
We all have different techniques mate, whatever works for you may not work for me and vice versa. Personally I (unless subconsciously) don’t pay too much attention to the trailer wheels (apart from what they’re about to run over 
) and prefer to watch the back bottom corner of the trailer.
Practice practice practice.
also don’t be a C@@t take a shunt
Commentors are so far, so good.
In this modern day world of culpability, write out a risk assessment and CC to everyone within your organization to highlight a significant exposure from their own risk management matrix ,resulting in monetary loss to that organization from the lack of support and/or training and request the company SOP method statement in respect to this particular situation.
Play them at their own game.
Dont stress, throw it back at the company, because if you get it wrong, they will have no qualms about finding you culpable for any misconduct on you part and hanging you up.
■■■■ em, mate. The whole ■■■■ house is about to go down in flames.
Having a bad day Andie? 
blue estate:
also don’t be a C@@t take a shunt
.
the maoster:
Having a bad day Andie?
Not at all.
You, like me have some uncommon common sense, I can work things out for myself for the best outcome.
But,
There are some inexperienced younger guys out there who cannot.
So my best advice in this situation would be. If you dont know what to do, dont do anything. Then fill out the relevant compliance paperwork to pass the buck.
For £10 an hour, ■■■■ definitely runs up hill.
AndieHyde:
the maoster:
Having a bad day Andie?Not at all.
You, like me have some uncommon common sense, I can work things out for myself for the best outcome.But,
There are some inexperienced younger guys out there who cannot.
So my best advice in this situation would be. If you dont know what to do, dont do anything. Then fill out the relevant compliance paperwork to pass the buck.For £10 an hour, [zb] definitely runs up hill.
知道的不说话。说话的人不知道。
ETS:
blue estate:
also don’t be a C@@t take a shuntRed = barrier
Yellow = 2 steel posts, appr. 3m apart
Green = where you need to enter (you’re going down south so it’s a good side reverse)
Black = distance from building entrance between barrier (appr. 19-20m)If
trailer isn’t nearly parallel by the time you’re near the posts
AND
unit isn’t nearly straight with the trailer by the time you reach the posts
you’re not going in.
Because 5m behind the posts inside the building are the guides with about 15cm/6 in on each side of the wheels if dead centre, 3-4m further in is the end (bay)Take a shunt, I dare you
You can micro-correct an angle if you’re very very slightly off but forget a proper shunt. Going out loaded with un-liftable middle axle on tractor takes a shunt or risk a battle scar on your trailer. Poles are painted yellow on the outside, front and read but black on the insides. Because they’ve lost all their paint. For some mysterious reason.
The only tractors i’ve found in recent times you can’t do anything with the mid lifter when loaded, were Mercs and Ivecos, bad luck if you happen to be saddled with one of those in fleet spec, almost everything else i’ve driven (haven’t driven a Renault since the G thingy) even if the mid lift doesn’t actually raise the driver has the ability to transfer weight onto drive axle.
That does look a nasty reverse to be fair, if you had a back window fitted it could be an easier blind side judging by the shape of the barrier.
Don’t overthink it, just keep practicing preferably where you can’t do any damage no matter how much of mess you make, none of us were born brill at maneuvering and there is no secret because i’ve yet to see two drivers reverse exactly the same way, find and develop the method that suits you.
I prefer to open the drivers door cos it gives far more vision and makes listening easier but don’t see many others doing this, i see some drivers reverse into tight spaces purely on the mirrors and whilst i can do that on a blind side reasonably i can’t manage it on the good side.
On the subject of Romanian drivers, i work with one and his maneuvering skills are extraordinary (thoroughly decent bloke too), watched him into a dark bay, S shape blind reverse onto some rough ground, i might as well have gone and got the coffees in for all the help i was because the trailer came back in one shunt like it was on rails.
ETS:
AndieHyde:
the maoster:
Having a bad day Andie?Not at all.
You, like me have some uncommon common sense, I can work things out for myself for the best outcome.But,
There are some inexperienced younger guys out there who cannot.
So my best advice in this situation would be. If you dont know what to do, dont do anything. Then fill out the relevant compliance paperwork to pass the buck.For £10 an hour, [zb] definitely runs up hill.
知道的不说话。说话的人不知道。
Aye, and another clever Chinaman, Confusion or whatever proclaimed that -
" A man who goes to bed with any itching bottom, wakes up with a smelly finger"
It does look awkward. No one will get it right first time, every time.
If bays such as this have lines painted extending way out in front and you attempt to get it all lined up earlier (yes, without clouting barrier with unit!) you give yourself a little more scope.
As you say pulling a couple of metres forward when almost straight doesnt do much good. Pull out at an angle and then go in. Dont attempt a 90deg turn from the off: just get lined up for a 45deg turn.
If I remember right you do agency work? If so may I suggest you ask your agency to send you somewhere where you can do some shifts as a shunter? A week of shunting and doing 30-40 or more reverses a shift and you’ll get reversing sorted out to a tee. I did 6 months when I first passed my class 1 in a poxy yard where you had to have trailers parked so close to each other you couldn’t get a ■■■ packet between them and it sorted me out for life. Place I’m at now they do a driver apprentice programme and they put the newly qualified drivers in shunters in the yard for a few weeks once they’ve passed their test and that sorts them out too.
You can usually spot drivers who’ve done shunting quite easily by how they position their trailers before they start the reverse and even how they’ll approach where they’re going to back into which is usually completely different from how most other drivers will. They’ve learned how to approach and position themselves for a reverse so they can do it in one non-stop manouvre with minimal steering wheel twizzling.
When it comes to a 90 degree reverse for example unless there isn’t the width ( and you do have the width available in that image) you’ll never find me in a situation where I’m 90 degrees to where the trailer is going to go. Say it’s on your right. As I’m approaching I’ll approach to the left, drive in towards the gap where the trailer is going to go on the right then turn left and at the end a slight turn to the right and you end up in a position where you have the trailer at say 30-45 degrees to the gap it’s going into, or at least already part way through the turn, with the rear of the trailer a few feet past the gap and the unit already turned to the right slightly so it’ll start to turn the trailer as soon as you hit reverse. You’re now only doing a 30-45 degree turn not a 90 degree turn.
Looking at the picture you posted I’d be driving down to the bay close to the side of the building on your right and then once the unit had passed the doors putting the passenger side of the unit somewhere near where the bottom end of that red line is. Your trailer will now be pointed towards the doors. You reverse back in a straight line because the unit is already at the angle it needs to be to start turning the trailer and then when you get to the point you need to start to get in front of it you’ll be at where the yard widens out or will have enough space to start to turn.