hi folks i put my card in at 16.05 ,drove for 1.05 ,then had 30 min break +2.35 on poa ,then drove for 2 hours 50, then had 30 mins break , while driving back to base, tachograph warning saying I need break in 15 mins ,so i had to pull in for another 30 mins break ,went over by 1 minute ,were did I go wrong i thought two 30 mins break covered me , any help would be great
Your 2 hours+ on poa cleared your driving time so your 2nd 30 min break actually looked like your first 15 on your second stint. On download you will find you are ok and didn’t go over.
It really is a stupid way of setting up the tachos considering poa isn’t classed as a break over a here. Would guess that probably 75%of infringements are caused by this-I know mine are!
Beau Nydel:
Your 2 hours+ on poa cleared your driving time so your 2nd 30 min break actually looked like your first 15 on your second stint. On download you will find you are ok and didn’t go over.
It really is a stupid way of setting up the tachos considering poa isn’t classed as a break over a here. Would guess that probably 75%of infringements are caused by this-I know mine are!
Thanks beau for your help ,I stopped at Services, showing driving time 4.31
Is that 4.31 for the shift or for the day? If for the shift don’t know what happened sorry.
Beau Nydel:
Is that 4.31 for the shift or for the day? If for the shift don’t know what happened sorry.
Hi beau, started at 16.05 drove 1.05 then 30 mins break ,then 2.35 poa ,then drove 2.50 , then 30 mind break , ,drive 1.00 then 45 mind other work ,while driving back to base ,tachograph flashed saying 15 to 4.30 driving , pulled in but went over 4.31 , had to take another 30 min break to reset tachograph,i think poa has cancelled the first break
Your problems are two-fold. Firstly, you appear to be using POA when there is no reason at all to do so. The whole point of POA is to allow the driver to be “at work” (and so being paid) while not actually working, thus allowing his paid time to exceed the WTD limit of 60 hours.
Secondly, you appear to be allowing the tachograph machine to dictate your working/driving time. The tachograph is not infallible.
You are correct that the 2hrs 35 min of POA has “reset your driving time” - this is simply a result of the programming of the tacho unit to count all POA as “break” (when in fact it should only be counted as Break when the card is in Slot 2 under “multi-manning”).
Simplest solution is not to use POA (do you actually need to use it?). Slightly more complex solution is to work out for yourself exactly how much driving and Break time you have accrued and ignore the stupid machine and the warnings/messages it flashes at you.
Roymondo:
Your problems are two-fold. Firstly, you appear to be using POA when there is no reason at all to do so. The whole point of POA is to allow the driver to be “at work” (and so being paid) while not actually working, thus allowing his paid time to exceed the WTD limit of 60 hours.Secondly, you appear to be allowing the tachograph machine to dictate your working/driving time. The tachograph is not infallible.
You are correct that the 2hrs 35 min of POA has “reset your driving time” - this is simply a result of the programming of the tacho unit to count all POA as “break” (when in fact it should only be counted as Break when the card is in Slot 2 under “multi-manning”).
Simplest solution is not to use POA (do you actually need to use it?). Slightly more complex solution is to work out for yourself exactly how much driving and Break time you have accrued and ignore the stupid machine and the warnings/messages it flashes at you.
Thank roymondo really appreciate your help i get it now cheers
Roymondo:
Your problems are two-fold. Firstly, you appear to be using POA when there is no reason at all to do so. The whole point of POA is to allow the driver to be “at work” (and so being paid) while not actually working, thus allowing his paid time to exceed the WTD limit of 60 hours.Secondly, you appear to be allowing the tachograph machine to dictate your working/driving time. The tachograph is not infallible.
You are correct that the 2hrs 35 min of POA has “reset your driving time” - this is simply a result of the programming of the tacho unit to count all POA as “break” (when in fact it should only be counted as Break when the card is in Slot 2 under “multi-manning”).
Simplest solution is not to use POA (do you actually need to use it?). Slightly more complex solution is to work out for yourself exactly how much driving and Break time you have accrued and ignore the stupid machine and the warnings/messages it flashes at you.
I disagree on both counts.
To me the purpose of poa is to allow a driver who has all recorded breaks deducted to get paid whilst waiting around and not racking wtd working time up unnecessarily.
As break neither counts as working time I don’t see your argument that it’s poa allowing you work extra. Poa only levels the playing field for the minority of drivers who have all recorded breaks deducted.
Obviously there’s the way tachos have to treat poa by wrongly acting like break, so it does throw wrong information like in the ops case. But it’s wrong to not use the tacho as a counter. The tacho could say you’ve driven 4:30, but you e also used a stopwatch which says 4:15, if you drive another 15 mins then you’re illegal despite not actually driving more than 4:30, again you could start a stopwatch when you start a break, it could get to 45 mins whilst the tacho says 43, if you set off, despite actually having 45 mins, if you drive over 4.5 then you’re driving more than 4.5 without s 45 min break.
Actual times are irrelevant, only the time the tacho allocates to each activity is what matters
You could either write down your driving times before you put it on POA or if your paid your breaks put it on break and tell them in office you’ve put break instead.
I usually just bang a 15 minute break in to push my 6 hour on and have a proper break somewhere I want.
stevieboy308:
I disagree on both counts.To me the purpose of poa is to allow a driver who has all recorded breaks deducted to get paid whilst waiting around and not racking wtd working time up unnecessarily.
As break neither counts as working time I don’t see your argument that it’s poa allowing you work extra. Poa only levels the playing field for the minority of drivers who have all recorded breaks deducted.
Then you are not disagreeing with me at all - as I said, the purpose of POA is to enable the driver to be “at work” (and being paid) in excess of the 60 hour Working Time limit.
Roymondo:
stevieboy308:
I disagree on both counts.To me the purpose of poa is to allow a driver who has all recorded breaks deducted to get paid whilst waiting around and not racking wtd working time up unnecessarily.
As break neither counts as working time I don’t see your argument that it’s poa allowing you work extra. Poa only levels the playing field for the minority of drivers who have all recorded breaks deducted.
Then you are not disagreeing with me at all - as I said, the purpose of POA is to enable the driver to be “at work” (and being paid) in excess of the 60 hour Working Time limit.
Break does that too though
I’ve never ever used POA, but I think on my tacho you can select whether or not it counts POA as break. Will that be correct.
I keep two log books as well, just in case. 
In the Op’s case I would have not bothered with the first 30 min break, just hit POA. Then keep an eye on your 24hr driving total rather than what the tacho says you have left as the POA will clear drive time. Take your full 45min when you had your second 30min break and the tacho wont be shouting at you.
Or, take a 15min break then put on POA. Keep an eye on the POA and dont let it go over 28 mins without putting it on other work for a minute then back to POA. The tacho wont register the 28 mins of POA as break to reset drive time so what drive it tells you that you have left will be correct. Another 30 mins on break will reset the drive time and will be displayed properly.
The other option, if you dont get deducted all of your breaks, is if you think you are going to be on a bay/not working or moving for 3 hours like you seem to have been is stick it on break for the whole lot. This means you can have a split rest and not burn a 15hr if you are doing max hours.
I use a hell of a lot of POA (between 2 and 4hrs a day) doing long supermarket shifts and never been caught out using either of the first 2 methods.