As many agency drivers are PAYE has anyone asked, been granted, been offered, been refused furlough by their agency?
This question is aimed more at drivers who have been on agency books (and/or at the same assignment) for three months or more.
Other than personal experience if there are any experts on this scenario could you point to your sources of reference?
The way I see it if you are a PAYE employee (with an appropriated contract) with any agency you are entitled to be offered to be furloughed.
Contact Industrial Recruitment says (today) that furlough is only available if the organisation you are working at is forced to close by the government. This agency is advising workers who are dropped from their regular assignment (for whatever reason) to claim SSP.
Obviously, an agency could offer other work and that would negate the requirement to furlough.
Roop298:
As many agency drivers are PAYE has anyone asked, been granted, been offered, been refused furlough by their agency?
This question is aimed more at drivers who have been on agency books (and/or at the same assignment) for three months or more.
Other than personal experience if there are any experts on this scenario could you point to your sources of reference?
The way I see it if you are a PAYE employee (with an appropriated contract) with any agency you are entitled to be offered to be furloughed.
Contact Industrial Recruitment says (today) that furlough is only available if the organisation you are working at is forced to close by the government. This agency is advising workers who are dropped from their regular assignment (for whatever reason) to claim SSP.
Obviously, an agency could offer other work and that would negate the requirement to furlough.
What appears to be the state of affairs??
No. There is no ‘entitlement’ for any worker.
If a company (agency) chooses not to apply for the furlough monies…that’s it. They don’t have to.
I’m beginning to think that if there’s one thing worse than being laid off as agency - it’s being kept on as full timer!
No sniff of any furlough pay to date at the agency… I do hope they don’t try and side-step their financial obligations as well, here… Agency are not answering my messages… I’ve been offered work at a different venue, got told I have to undergo another assessment, and now the goalpost has been moved, as I’ve been asked for a Covid-19 letter WTF ever THAT is!?
Ed: Story linked has been edited to reflect a U-TURN posted by Beeb @ 22:00 tonight.
If the agency have got no work for me, anywhere, at all, ongoingly… Just furlough me on 80% of my average pay these past 13 weeks already!
You’d think there would be so many people out sick or self-isolating right now - that the work would be pouring into agencies… But the opposite is happening, very likely in the case of above firm - because they’ve got a mothballed sister business to cart a load of spare drivers in from…
I have spoken to your agency on your behalf. They have told me that they have work for you, working any 5 from 7 on a ZHC. They are awaiting your acceptance and can have you out working tomorrow.
Harry Monk:
I asked my agency for furlough last week but they seem to have gone very quiet.
All I heard was no further placements and anyone currently working in a placement will be withdrawn with immediate effect.That was from an agency that only had my details and had never offered me any jobs anyway.
Roop298:
As many agency drivers are PAYE has anyone asked, been granted, been offered, been refused furlough by their agency?
This question is aimed more at drivers who have been on agency books (and/or at the same assignment) for three months or more.
I get it at my agency but I’m in a very unique situation. The reasoning for the policy of not giving it is that they have work available, mostly at Goole Tesco RDC, so drivers are expected to take the alternative available work if their main assignment has closed. I suspect that’s the reasoning with a lot of agencies. It isn’t because it costs them any more or that it affects cashflow because usually they don’t get paid by the clients until weeks after they’ve had to pay you anyway.
Winseer:
No sniff of any furlough pay to date at the agency…
If they’ve not written to you laying out the terms of the furlough such as how your pay will be calculated, whether you need to be in regular contact with them etc then it is extremely unlikely you are.
AFAIK To qualify for furlough on agency, there’s a requirement for you to be PAYE and guaranteed a certain number of hours under the Swedish Derogation in your contract by your agency. In my case (unbeknown to me) I was guaranteed 24hrs, and as the nearest alternative client worksite was an unreasonable distance (35-40 miles/1hr each way) to commute.
Of all the drivers on the books who where on this contract (>100) only 10 met the criteria for furlough, there rest either didn’t have Swedish derogation in their contract or where mostly Ltd Co and have therefore got nothing.
I’m beginning to think that if there’s one thing worse than being laid off as agency - it’s being kept on as full timer!
No sniff of any furlough pay to date at the agency… I do hope they don’t try and side-step their financial obligations as well, here… Agency are not answering my messages… I’ve been offered work at a different venue, got told I have to undergo another assessment, and now the goalpost has been moved, as I’ve been asked for a Covid-19 letter WTF ever THAT is!?
Ed: Story linked has been edited to reflect a U-TURN posted by Beeb @ 22:00 tonight.
If the agency have got no work for me, anywhere, at all, ongoingly… Just furlough me on 80% of my average pay these past 13 weeks already!
You’d think there would be so many people out sick or self-isolating right now - that the work would be pouring into agencies… But the opposite is happening, very likely in the case of above firm - because they’ve got a mothballed sister business to cart a load of spare drivers in from…
Roop298:
As many agency drivers are PAYE has anyone asked, been granted, been offered, been refused furlough by their agency?
This question is aimed more at drivers who have been on agency books (and/or at the same assignment) for three months or more.
I get it at my agency but I’m in a very unique situation. The reasoning for the policy of not giving it is that they have work available, mostly at Goole Tesco RDC, so drivers are expected to take the alternative available work if their main assignment has closed. I suspect that’s the reasoning with a lot of agencies. It isn’t because it costs them any more or that it affects cashflow because usually they don’t get paid by the clients until weeks after they’ve had to pay you anyway.
Winseer:
No sniff of any furlough pay to date at the agency…
If they’ve not written to you laying out the terms of the furlough such as how your pay will be calculated, whether you need to be in regular contact with them etc then it is extremely unlikely you are.
I agree entirely. No furlough pay for those turning down alternative work assignments…
However, it is complicated (a) by the current drying-up of such work assignments and (b) the need to do fresh unpaid assessments and (c) being asked for a Covid-19 filled-in form - whatever that is…before getting the go-ahead to even attend one of these fresh assessment… Meanwhile, income is at zero, but the agency haven’t sent any P45’s out, presumably because they won’t be able to claim anything back from the government if they do… I think the agencies are trying to push people into resigning rather than sacking them outright, so they stay qualified for the government hand-out. The alternative, is to stay on zero pay for weeks and months on end, depleting one’s savings, knackering one’s state pension in years to come (by the ceased payments of National Insurance Contributions no longer deducted from zero wages…)
…Or anything else that permits our so-called business establishment to shirk and sidestep their social and financial obligations that they clearly aim to ride a coach and horses through…
One might have thought that there would be a HUGE demand for Supermarket agency in particular at this time - but there is this reluctance to pay the new higher post-april 1st 2020 Ex-Swedish Derogation pay rates, and we get laid off instead. How absurd, how tight-fisted, and how Mike-Ashley like eh?
I’m beginning to think that if there’s one thing worse than being laid off as agency - it’s being kept on as full timer!
No sniff of any furlough pay to date at the agency… I do hope they don’t try and side-step their financial obligations as well, here… Agency are not answering my messages… I’ve been offered work at a different venue, got told I have to undergo another assessment, and now the goalpost has been moved, as I’ve been asked for a Covid-19 letter WTF ever THAT is!?
Ed: Story linked has been edited to reflect a U-TURN posted by Beeb @ 22:00 tonight.
If the agency have got no work for me, anywhere, at all, ongoingly… Just furlough me on 80% of my average pay these past 13 weeks already!
You’d think there would be so many people out sick or self-isolating right now - that the work would be pouring into agencies… But the opposite is happening, very likely in the case of above firm - because they’ve got a mothballed sister business to cart a load of spare drivers in from…
“I’ve been offered work”…
I remember the times in the past with different agencies when I got offered a totally unsuitable assignment (which I was presumably expected to turn down…)
I accepted it though, only for them to phone back 5 minutes later to tell me “Oh, It’s been cancelled”.
Just the standard agency patter for “We’ll lie to you to try and trick you into resigning, and tell you some more lies until you fall for one, somewhere at some time”…
As I said some time ago - I detest office politics.
All a worker wants is a square deal done fair and square, paid at a fair rate that is written down and easily understood by both sides.
That’s it.
WHY oh WHY this perceived need to f— the workforce about with the “Lies Management” thing where we’re kept in the dark, not told anything, and punished for things you’re left to guess at?
Even the client supermarkets themselves - have ■■■■■■ in their own pots by pushing for more people on low-paid shifts with no shift slots available on the better-paid ones…
This ex-swedish derogation thing - has pushed up the weekday night rate sharply, whilst slightly lowering the weekend rates… “Got any work?” Sure. It is 104 miles away and we have unlimited flat 8 hour shifts 02:00 or 17:00 starts paid at day rate. “There are 18 other depots closer to me than that. How come there’s nothing closer to me there?” Do you want this assignment or not? “How come there’s no weekend work, despite the hourly rate just having dropped for weekends?”
……
My suggestion would be to meet them halfway, either attending a low-paid assignment in my own area OR having to travel further to get a high-paid assignment.
FFS I can’t afford to spend 40-50 sheets on a round trip for a job that’s barely going to GROSS me £100 - can I?
Don’t they have any agency “recruits” in the nearby town in question? Is that why the payrate went up there and there’s still work available there?
peirre:
AFAIK To qualify for furlough on agency, there’s a requirement for you to be PAYE and guaranteed a certain number of hours under the Swedish Derogation in your contract by your agency. In my case (unbeknown to me) I was guaranteed 24hrs, and as the nearest alternative client worksite was an unreasonable distance (35-40 miles/1hr each way) to commute.
Of all the drivers on the books who where on this contract (>100) only 10 met the criteria for furlough, there rest either didn’t have Swedish derogation in their contract or where mostly Ltd Co and have therefore got nothing.
Having read the guidance for employers no that’s not the case. Whilst your agency has done the same thing as mine to get around the Swedish Derogation it isn’t a requirement for furlough. Even those on zero hours can get it.
I remember the times in the past with different agencies when I got offered a totally unsuitable assignment (which I was presumably expected to turn down…)
I accepted it though, only for them to phone back 5 minutes later to tell me “Oh, It’s been cancelled”.
Just the standard agency patter for “We’ll lie to you to try and trick you into resigning, and tell you some more lies until you fall for one, somewhere at some time”…
As I said some time ago - I detest office politics.
All a worker wants is a square deal done fair and square, paid at a fair rate that is written down and easily understood by both sides.
That’s it.
WHY oh WHY this perceived need to f— the workforce about with the “Lies Management” thing where we’re kept in the dark, not told anything, and punished for things you’re left to guess at?
…
My suggestion would be to meet them halfway, either attending a low-paid assignment in my own area OR having to travel further to get a high-paid assignment.
I used to work for agencies, years ago. It’s simple really. I presented my services and requirements. They offered work. If suitable, I agreed and worked.
If said agency forked me about I signed up with another agency. Vote with your feet. Show some backbone.
But I’ve a sneaky feeling that you’ve run out of agencies/placements that will put up with you…
I’ve been on the books with one agency for about three years and another for 15 months. I’ve tried contacting both of these companies to request being furloughed; both totally ignore texts and calls, either to individual ‘consultants’ and I use the word very loosely, mobiles, or the main land-line. I think, as someone has already mentioned, that they are hoping that drivers will just resign so that their responsibility to them ends.
We really shouldn’t be surprised with this behaviour, honest agencies are very hard to find. I think the old adage, “You know when they’re lying, it’s when their lips are moving” pretty much sums 90% of them up.
Harry Monk:
I asked my agency for furlough last week but they seem to have gone very quiet.
Snap. I was told to “phone in”, and then got told “My services are no longer required”, although I understand I won’t be getting a P45 unless I resigned…
They’ve not been answering my messages since, and now my assessment looks like being cancelled, as I have had a Covid 19 “letter” requested, of which I have no idea how to obtain one, or even had explained to me what one is… “Required before you can go on this assessment”…
Questions that come to me include
“Why lie to me”?
“Why stand me down via a phone call instead of in writing via the on-line system”?
“Why mention old tacho offences as the (clearly, trumped-up) reason why now”?
“Why pretend that there will be some work forthcoming, when there clearly won’t be any”?
“Why not just sack me, and give a reason I can’t litigate over”? (Hint: “No Reason” - I can and have litigated over in the past.) Why not just tell the bloody truth, and be done with it?
peirre:
AFAIK To qualify for furlough on agency, there’s a requirement for you to be PAYE and guaranteed a certain number of hours under the Swedish Derogation in your contract by your agency. In my case (unbeknown to me) I was guaranteed 24hrs, and as the nearest alternative client worksite was an unreasonable distance (35-40 miles/1hr each way) to commute.
Of all the drivers on the books who where on this contract (>100) only 10 met the criteria for furlough, there rest either didn’t have Swedish derogation in their contract or where mostly Ltd Co and have therefore got nothing.
Having read the guidance for employers no that’s not the case. Whilst your agency has done the same thing as mine to get around the Swedish Derogation it isn’t a requirement for furlough. Even those on zero hours can get it.
Perhaps the agencies just don’t want to pay any up-front furlough money whatsoever, and knowing that there won’t be any actual assignments for some time to come, clearly are trying to side-step their financial obligations by “encouraging people to resign by giving them no work for a prolonged period, depriving DWP/HMRC of W1/M1 National Insurance Contributions on both sides…”… The Government might have something legal to say about those firms who “employ people on zero pay” for a prolonged period because of the shortage of contributions that’ll then become apparent… Only a fool would “resign” BEFORE they’ve got another job lined up, and alas - there are no jobs to even go to interviews for at this time because - no interviews allowed because of the lock-down !!
Also, doesn’t “Laying anyone off proper” (i.e. sacking them, or just sending them a P45 at their own instigation) mean that they can no longer claim back monies under the Furloughment scheme outlined by Chancellor Sunak (so far, on the back of an envelope, it seems…)
Is anyone on here getting the 80% furloughment pay yet, that is “not as one-off ■■■■-up, but officially”?
I know quite a few agency lads personally, most of whom have been driving for my lot for years. Chatting to a couple of them this morning they tell me that the agency market is a bloodbath right now with every man for himself and because the demand for the small amount of work is so high, the agencies have cut the rate down to nearly minimum wage and basically said take it or leave it. Both of them are now working for £9 hour as that’s what the agency offered or face sitting at home getting nothing. They usually get £13 on PAYE days. Both of them have families and mortgages but the agency was fobbing them off over furlough. The agency knows if they turn down the work they won’t have any problem finding someone else to do it.
We actually had a full-time night trunking job advertised last Thursday as our volumes have suddenly rocketed. Clean and easy work, pretty much all RDCs but rota’d to work weekends. Pay is above average. Chatting with our HR man in the canteen on Saturday he said he’d never seen anything like it - he received nearly 300 applications for it in just 24 hours . The job pretty much went to the first person who applied that had all the boxes ticked and could start the same day after an assessment.
I’m still seeing a few agencies advertising in my area but it’s just bait on a hook to get you on their books. There’s no actual work and they’re saying the usual thing to theirs drivers “keep your phone switched on, we expect the work to pick up in a few weeks”. They don’t expect anything of the sort! They know it’s likely to get even worse but they won’t admit to it so they don’t have to pay furlough.
In a follow up to ^^^^this - it would seem that firms who’ve stood people down without them actually being ill, or in a high-risk group self-isolating…
…don’t get paid, ever again for the rest of their natural lives…
So much for Sunak’s £300billion package then…
The vast majority of people who’ve already been stood down - do not have Coronavirus, are not likely to ever get Coronavirus, and didn’t want to go sick on zero pay indefinitely, neither.
People should beware of being sacked by phone or word of mouth, or told things like in the phone conversation like “We’re about to sack you for - if you go now by resigning - there won’t be a black mark on your record for future employment”…
would be something like: “You run a red light in your wagon 3 months ago, and we’ve only just had the police citation through for it” “We got a phone call from the police today, stating that a vehicle you were driving at the time was involved in an alleged hit & run incident” No proof mind, such as a letter from the police saying thus… just our say-so… “You were recorded in a junction box 1 month ago, and didn’t pay the fine ‘It’s the first you knew about it’ - isn’t an excuse!” You didn’t report a driving offence to your insurance company, so we’re going to sack you and get an IN endorsement applied to your licence - unless you’ve resigned in the meantime…
This would be an example of “Agency Lies” weaponized to the nth degree - wouldn’t it?
