What with Royal Mail having recently voted to strike - we now face the possibility of ASDA putting heavy demands on “agency workers” in the run-up to Christmas this year…
I’m not sure what makes employers think they can routinely re-write the contracts of full time staff without some kind of “buyout” of “voluntary redudancy” option available…
Now that Brexit has been booted down the road into next year already - the normal run-up to Christmas can now commence - no excuses!
What are you referring to? Agency drivers■■?
The link is about a baker who didn’t sign the new contract so lost his job…
Don’t expect much agency work from Asda they are turning against the whole idea of agency from what I can tell
In store contracts, nowt to do with drivers/warehouse/distribution centres. Union are demonstrating but not as many store colleagues are in the union so they are not that interested. Distribution on the other hand is proper unionised and have a national agreement in place to try and prevent this sort of thing.
As said no more demand on agency than usual running up to xmas so far, in fact we are probably down on agency use. Been using a few more traction contractors on peak days in the last few weeks but that is mainly because our Xmas hire units arent in yet.
Winseer:
I’m not sure what makes employers think they can routinely re-write the contracts of full time staff without some kind of “buyout” of “voluntary redudancy” option available…
They “think they can” because they can. The law allows it.
Easy to understand here:
citizensadvice.org.uk/work/ … -overview/
Want more laws protecting workers?.. Consider where your vote should go soon.
Want more “flexibility” for employers? … Consider where your vote should go soon.
Think most will vote for corbyn as didn’t he say he’d raise minimum wage to £10.50 .
Buying votes basically.
And if this happens am. Sure more employers will follow asda be unpaid breaks. Overtime rates will be cut. So yes be in more per hour e. But if do overtime maybe worse off long terml
My point here is that Full Time Employers in general, but in this example “A firm that employs a lot of drivers also, full time & agency” - are deliberately racing to the bottom on the full timer’s T&Cs, thinking that the staff will “wear it” when we ALL have the option of walking away and coming back at a very similar firm on agency…
How can T&Cs for full time jobs ever get better if people “Fear” Zero Hours contracts and flexible working?
“I’ll let you keep your preferred 9-5 hours slot sonny, - but you’ll be taking a pay cut to facilitate that lack of flexibility…”
The key to driving UP wages is to “be available for ANY work” - but only if the money is right!
NEGOTIATE instead of outright “refuse” all the time.
That way, the management won’t just force the implementation - meaning the staff get sweet FA, because they “wouldn’t negotiate” when the firm insisted upon re-writing the conracts…
Winseer:
NEGOTIATE instead of outright “refuse” all the time.That way, the management won’t just force the implementation - meaning the staff get sweet FA, because they “wouldn’t negotiate” when the firm insisted upon re-writing the conracts…
Only fly in the ointment is most employers don’t say “we’re thinking of doing this, what do you think?” They just change the terms and you either like it or lump it. They will always get bums on seats for the new terms. Much like the haulage industry, if people keep accepting jobs for £9 per hour then what incentive is there to raise the rate.
All well and good negotiating, but the employer has to be open to it in the first place.
Yes, indeed. “Still being in the EU” hasn’t helped matters much, especially with Christmas coming up, and a flood of EU workers still available to pick up any and all agency work about…
It now doesn’t look like there will be much of an “uplift” as I was hoping on the Christmas Rates - does it? 
As for these tales of “Rights Taken Away” if we do Brexit…
Well - if an Employer can re-write people’s contracts with impunity - I reckon we’ve already LOST all the rights that actually mean anything to the average hapless worker eh?
Perhaps we should better define what “Rights” we’d like to:-
(1) Obtain for the first time
(2) Keep, that are fully implemented about the EU
(3) Get back - that were given up to the EU
The main “RIght” I’d like to see in the workplace - is that you cannot be sacked except for being a CRIMINAL at work. ENOUGH of “Political Sackings” already!
Employee sacked for sharing clip mocking religion is reinstated | National Secular Society (ASDA)
McDonald's boss Steve Easterbrook fired after dating employee - BBC News (McDonalds)
NONE of these reasons for “sacking” - seem to be about the two issues that should be involved in ALL cases warranting dismissal…
(1) Criminal behaviour
(2) Behaviour directly losing the company money
If we got on with leaving the EU - we could implement such a law that would be (1) First time (2) Enshrine perceived rights already given so-called “by the EU”, and (3) take back control in cases where one CANNOT currently sack a “bad employee” - even if they get caught red-handed in an act of sabotage, etc.
Franglais:
Want more laws protecting workers?.. Consider where your vote should go soon.
Want more “flexibility” for employers? … Consider where your vote should go soon.
I’m guessing you’re talking about voting Labour? Be aware that their policies on forcing companies to hand over 10% to employees as well as going onto 4 day weeks for 5 day pay are likely to end up with increased unemployment as companies decide automating jobs is cheaper and small businesses, especially small family businesses decide the cost and hassle of hiring staff isn’t worth it.
Winseer:
If we got on with leaving the EU - we could implement such a law that would be (1) First time (2) Enshrine perceived rights already given so-called “by the EU”, and (3) take back control in cases where one CANNOT currently sack a “bad employee” - even if they get caught red-handed in an act of sabotage, etc.
The Withdrawal Act signs into UK law ALL existing EU laws, rules and regulations that are in force on the day we leave. And you can sack an employee if they get caught red handed.
Conor:
I’m guessing you’re talking about voting Labour? Be aware that their policies on forcing companies to hand over 10% to employees as well as going onto 4 day weeks for 5 day pay are likely to end up with increased unemployment as companies decide automating jobs is cheaper and small businesses, especially small family businesses decide the cost and hassle of hiring staff isn’t worth it.
That is the classic “free market” argument.
Does the history of the minimum wage in the UK support that theory?
economicshelp.org/labour-ma … imum-wage/
Small family businesses say “Expansion will cost us an additional margin, due to a rise in the NMW, so we won`t bother”. Really?
Conor:
Franglais:
Want more laws protecting workers?.. Consider where your vote should go soon.
Want more “flexibility” for employers? … Consider where your vote should go soon.I’m guessing you’re talking about voting Labour? Be aware that their policies on forcing companies to hand over 10% to employees as well as going onto 4 day weeks for 5 day pay are likely to end up with increased unemployment as companies decide automating jobs is cheaper and small businesses, especially small family businesses decide the cost and hassle of hiring staff isn’t worth it.
Winseer:
If we got on with leaving the EU - we could implement such a law that would be (1) First time (2) Enshrine perceived rights already given so-called “by the EU”, and (3) take back control in cases where one CANNOT currently sack a “bad employee” - even if they get caught red-handed in an act of sabotage, etc.The Withdrawal Act signs into UK law ALL existing EU laws, rules and regulations that are in force on the day we leave. And you can sack an employee if they get caught red handed.
The hard part of “sacking someone” - is catching them red-handed doing WHAT?
If one is accused of commiting a crime - then there are due processes go to through, and it can take some time to sack someone, although they can be suspended on full pay with immediate effect, or without pay following a short discplinary hearing at which a union rep will likely be present.
If one is accused of something that it arguably NOT a crime such as “insulting a colleague” or “walking into the ladies by mistake” or “backtalking a manger” - then if one is without a contract, then it becomes all too easy to sack someone on the spot for the most minor of such “offences”, whilst a full timer - takes ages to be got rid of, no matter how GREAT the offence.
This means that the Law and Union Power - appear to be in INVERSE proportion, which is not a good thing for the rest of staff that end up paying for it.
I would advise any full timer - especially a LONG STANDING full timer - to consider “jumping before they are pushed” when it comes to “taking an exit package” if they feel they are on the verge of being sacked on a technicallity. This gets around any “wastage” project that might be in play by the firm…
“We need to shed 10,000 staff across the country. Sack people for 4 sicks in a year, insubordination, clocking fraud, (going home early!) Racism (having an argument with someone not white British), or a variety of other reasons that we can make up as we go along.”
Someone like me, an argue-the-toss-about-anything kinda guy - has long since acted thus - and on more than one occasion to boot. 
I often wonder what the point of a contract of employment is in the first place. It’s just a meaningless piece of paper that employers can change whenever they feel like to whatever suits them.
To my way of thinking, breaking a contract is cause for punitive measures, but I’m honest enough to admit that goes both ways, however unpalatable that may be.
Franglais:
Want more laws protecting workers?.. Consider where your vote should go soon.
Want more “flexibility” for employers? … Consider where your vote should go soon.
You mean after 45 years of EU membership more EU will fix everything.Remind us which side Thatcher was on in 1975 and 15 hour shifts are obviously all about protecting workers not flexibility for employers.
Some.contracts are so full of clauses your need a solicitor to work it all out. So we just sign them.
Did you all hear about UK exec for McDonalds.
He’s single started a relationship with an.employe who was also single over age. Then had a consensual relationship.
Yet he was sacked because his contract says can’t enter a relationship with any employee.
Unbelievable.
It’s how most of us meet our other half.via work
The original ASDA contract is a good one.
It’s why ASDA wanted rid of it.
They would of been completely fudged if the union could of convinced the majority of people not to sign it.
Unfortunately almost everyone has signed it so they few hold outs are fudged.
Just shows how toothless unions are which can be seen as a good thing as they can bring a country to its knees. Heck just at the aviation union they can ■■■■■■■ the country easily and sometimes do.
The large…
Conglomerates want armies of drone workers and with contracts like this, they’re another step closer to getting them.
As soon as working the weekend became the norm and time and a half and double time disappeared, they’d won.
edd1974:
Some.contracts are so full of clauses your need a solicitor to work it all out. So we just sign them.Did you all hear about UK exec for McDonalds.
He’s single started a relationship with an.employe who was also single over age. Then had a consensual relationship.
Yet he was sacked because his contract says can’t enter a relationship with any employee.
Unbelievable.
It’s how most of us meet our other half.via work
Very true. What would happen at any point in the future, when we’re all working for the same “Nanny State” employer with a clause like THAT btw?
Only Unemployed people - would be able to breed like rabbits, and create a next generation of poor, disabled, and workshy people… Right? 
As Full Time contracts become scarce, because employers are “too afraid of too many obligations” - they will make their actual contracts put out to tender “all the more draconian” - because they CAN. The Law of Unintended Consequence coming into play there - or just simply ill-thought-out political policies??
Perhaps the better way to proceed - would be a draconian enforcement of a TWO tier “minimum wage” - instead of those “tiers” being based upon “age”, why not have a tier system that was say, £10ph for a full timer contract OR you would have to pay a minimum wage of £15ph for anyone on a ZHC… Oh, and scrap this “Self Employed via Umbrella” thing as well, of course…
Current LABOUR policies - aren’t they?
All the time employers don’t get punished for being “Greedy”, and don’t get punished for “contractual abuses” - then I guess such abusive contracts - are going to be here to stay.
At present, I don’t think I’ll be voting Conservative at the election. I’ve still got a few weeks to change my mind yet though.
At present, I’m “no longer afraid of Corbyn getting in” - and hence can “vote Brexit Party” without the fear that I’ve been told to have over that.
No contracts or unions on the wal mart side over here. Used to be the company asked the drivers what they thought about changing something but now they just do it and, as has been said before, you either like it or lump it. A couple of years ago head office decided to eliminate day runs and have all drivers be away all week, some drivers didn’t want to or couldn’t so they left.
I guess that’s the beauty of no contracts, nothing to break and the company has all the power.
remy:
No contracts or unions on the wal mart side over here. Used to be the company asked the drivers what they thought about changing something but now they just do it and, as has been said before, you either like it or lump it. A couple of years ago head office decided to eliminate day runs and have all drivers be away all week, some drivers didn’t want to or couldn’t so they left.I guess that’s the beauty of no contracts, nothing to break and the company has all the power.
True it’s not all bad.
I currently need the flexibility and can not do contracts.
If your in the states you should gives your opinion on the chicken issue on the other thread. Apparently dozy thinks if you eat american chicken you drop dead.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=162730
Winseer:
Perhaps the better way to proceed - would be a draconian enforcement of a TWO tier “minimum wage” - instead of those “tiers” being based upon “age”, why not have a tier system that was say, £10ph for a full timer contract OR you would have to pay a minimum wage of £15ph for anyone on a ZHC… Oh, and scrap this “Self Employed via Umbrella” thing as well, of course…Current LABOUR policies - aren’t they?
I don`t know what is happening in your imagination about Labour policies?
The new manifesto hasn``t been published yet, I think, but from 2017, page 45:
“2. Ban zero hours contracts – so that
every worker gets a guaranteed
number of hours each week.”
and
“7. Raise the Minimum Wage to the
level of the Living Wage (expected
to be at least £10 per hour by
2020) – for all workers aged 18
or over, so that work pays.”
Page 9
“We will take
on the social scourge of tax avoidance
through our Tax Transparency and
Enforcement Programme, and close
down tax loopholes.
But we will not ask ordinary
households to pay more. A Labour
government will guarantee no rises
in income tax for those earning below
£80,000 a year, and no increases
in personal National Insurance
Contributions or the rate of VAT.”
Of course, some of us will continue to read the Tory rags to be told what the Labour Party are saying, but the information is there if anyone has ten minutes to spare to read it.
labour.org.uk/wp-content/upload … o-2017.pdf