BBC 2, 9 pm tonight.
I hope they’ve got some opinions from the Worlds greatest bridge experts. 
If it isn’t half an hour of Carryfast lecturing us it’s pointless.
switchlogic:
If it isn’t half an hour of Carryfast lecturing us it’s pointless.
The thought of Carryfast being one of the experts hadn’t even crossed my mind. 
Honest 
muckles:
switchlogic:
If it isn’t half an hour of Carryfast lecturing us it’s pointless.The thought of Carryfast being one of the experts hadn’t even crossed my mind.
Honest
To be fair if Morandi had taken my advice to use the NY Queensboro design,or even make it a suspension bridge with stainless steel re bar reinforced concrete towers,it would still be standing.But what would I know about designing bridges especially almost 60 years ago.
Interesting programme.It boils down to metal corrosion within concrete which,in theory,shouldn’t be happening.Someone is going to be nailed to wall for the accident when ultimate blame has been decided.Will be a hell of an insurance claim.
Gidders:
Interesting programme.It boils down to metal corrosion within concrete which,in theory,shouldn’t be happening.Someone is going to be nailed to wall for the accident when ultimate blame has been decided.Will be a hell of an insurance claim.
Like most of these disasters, seems to be a catalogue of missed opportunities to prevent it.
I’m sure somebody will go down for it, the Italian people will expect it, but I doubt it will be anybody very high up in the Autostrada organisation or government, who were responsible for the policies of bridge inspections and lack of spending on infrastructure.
And by the sounds of it, we shouldn’t be too complacent about our own infrastructure maintenance if the figure they quoted of the reduction in spending on it in the last decade is true.
muckles:
Gidders:
Interesting programme.It boils down to metal corrosion within concrete which,in theory,shouldn’t be happening.Someone is going to be nailed to wall for the accident when ultimate blame has been decided.Will be a hell of an insurance claim.Like most of these disasters, seems to be a catalogue of missed opportunities to prevent it.
I’m sure somebody will go down for it, the Italian people will expect it, but I doubt it will be anybody very high up in the Autostrada organisation or government, who were responsible for the policies of bridge inspections and lack of spending on infrastructure.And by the sounds of it, we shouldn’t be too complacent about our own infrastructure maintenance if the figure they quoted of the reduction in spending on it in the last decade is true.
It’s seems like an obvious attempt to divert attention from and cover the flaws in the stayed bridge design and stressed concrete.As opposed to suspension and/or cantilever and reinforced concrete design.By trying to shift the blame for the collapse onto the maintenance side of the equation.As they say can’t polish a turd.While there’s obviously too much invested in the stressed concrete and stayed bridge idea in numerous places to call a spade a spade in that regard now.
Carryfast:
muckles:
switchlogic:
If it isn’t half an hour of Carryfast lecturing us it’s pointless.The thought of Carryfast being one of the experts hadn’t even crossed my mind.
Honest
To be fair if Morandi had taken my advice to use the NY Queensboro design,or even make it a suspension bridge with stainless steel re bar reinforced concrete towers,it would still be standing.But what would I know about designing bridges especially almost 60 years ago.
Annnnnd we’re off! You were a civil engineering advisor at the time? Impressive
Carryfast:
muckles:
switchlogic:
If it isn’t half an hour of Carryfast lecturing us it’s pointless.The thought of Carryfast being one of the experts hadn’t even crossed my mind.
Honest
To be fair if Morandi had taken my advice to use the NY Queensboro design,or even make it a suspension bridge with stainless steel re bar reinforced concrete towers,it would still be standing.But what would I know about designing bridges especially almost 60 years ago.
you should not use stainless steel.it is susceptible to stress corrosion cracking when the temperature is over 140°F (60°C) and chloride solutions are in contact with the steel material. Embedded natural-weathering steels generally do not perform well in concrete containing moisture and chloride. Weathering steels adjoining concrete may discharge rust and cause staining of concrete surfaces.
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
To be fair if Morandi had taken my advice to use the NY Queensboro design,or even make it a suspension bridge with stainless steel re bar reinforced concrete towers,it would still be standing.But what would I know about designing bridges especially almost 60 years ago.Annnnnd we’re off! You were a civil engineering advisor at the time? Impressive
You obviously missed the intended irony and sarcasm meant in the reference to almost 60 years ago.Bearing in mind that the Queensboro design at least goes back to 1909 and it’s still standing.How difficult would it have been for Morandi to have said that’s what we’ll use for ours.No need for my help. 
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
To be fair if Morandi had taken my advice to use the NY Queensboro design,or even make it a suspension bridge with stainless steel re bar reinforced concrete towers,it would still be standing.But what would I know about designing bridges especially almost 60 years ago.Annnnnd we’re off! You were a civil engineering advisor at the time? Impressive
You obviously missed the intended irony and sarcasm meant in the reference to almost 60 years ago.Bearing in mind that the Queensboro design at least goes back to 1909 and it’s still standing.How difficult would it have been for Morandi to have said that’s what we’ll use for ours.No need for my help.
malcolmgbell:
Dont you remember the hammersmith flyover
google.com/amp/s/www.dailym … itain.html
They mentioned that on the program, but that was monitored and repaired before it collapsed, they seemed to know they had a corrosion problem with the Genoa bridge, but it wasn’t closed or repaired; I think they said the repairs to replace the cables was due this year.
However they also had a corrosion problem with the Forth Road Bridge, which I believe wasn’t covered in concrete, and the Queenboro Bridge, which in the late 70’s, after decades of under investment, had to have lanes closed for safety reasons due to structural issues due to corrosion. The program to bring it back up to standard for it’s hundreds anniversary took 25 years and about $1/2bn.
In fact it appears that bridges need maintenance, especially when they get older and have spent many years in a hostile environment taking far more traffic than the designers could have imagined.
Who’d have thought hey!
malcolmgbell:
Carryfast:
To be fair if Morandi had taken my advice to use the NY Queensboro design,or even make it a suspension bridge with stainless steel re bar reinforced concrete towers,it would still be standing.But what would I know about designing bridges especially almost 60 years ago.you should not use stainless steel.it is susceptible to stress corrosion cracking when the temperature is over 140°F (60°C) and chloride solutions are in contact with the steel material. Embedded natural-weathering steels generally do not perform well in concrete containing moisture and chloride. Weathering steels adjoining concrete may discharge rust and cause staining of concrete surfaces.
How does stainless steel discharge ‘rust’.What bleedin rust that’s why it’s stainless steel.Also when did/does the temperature ever reach over 60 C in Genoa.
stainless-uk.co.uk/products/rebar/
It’s also clear that not only did corroding steel contribute to the issues,stressed concrete ain’t the same thing as reinforced concrete.On that note my own view is that the investigation is itself a diversion exercise in trying to put the emphasis on stay cable corrosion.As opposed to cable stay fatigue if not also tower and deck collapse being the cause and the stay letting go being a symptom.The fact is the combination of stressed concrete and stayed bridge design is a time bomb waiting to go off and they’re are in too deep with the crap design now to call a spade a spade in that regard.
muckles:
In fact it appears that bridges need maintenance, especially when they get older and have spent many years in a hostile environment taking far more traffic than the designers could have imagined.Who’d have thought hey!
Firstly the stress flaws in the cable stayed design are obvious ( continuous rocking,tensile/lateral loads applied to towers and decks unlike suspension bridge design for one example ) also the critical nature of cable stressed concrete as opposed to reinforced concrete.
While it’s obvious that stainless steel is an important solution to the corrosion issue which was ignored when many bridges were built because of cost.
Anyone remember the old bridge in Svilengrad Bulgaria, built by Mustapha Pasha & opened in 1529?
295m long and often nose to tail with Artics on it going to the Middle East.
Carryfast:
muckles:
In fact it appears that bridges need maintenance, especially when they get older and have spent many years in a hostile environment taking far more traffic than the designers could have imagined.Who’d have thought hey!
Firstly the stress flaws in the cable stayed design are obvious ( continuous rocking,tensile/lateral loads applied to towers and decks unlike suspension bridge design for one example ) also the critical nature of cable stressed concrete as opposed to reinforced concrete.
While it’s obvious that stainless steel is an important solution to the corrosion issue which was ignored when many bridges were built because of cost.
They talk of structural steel not reinforcing concrete
whisperingsmith:
Anyone remember the old bridge in Svilengrad Bulgaria, built by Mustapha Pasha & opened in 1529?295m long and often nose to tail with Artics on it going to the Middle East.
Old Bridge, Svilengrad - Wikipedia
A lot of those Balkan bridges were slightly iffy going over them or parked under them. It took a bit of Croat firepower to knock the one down at Mostar 
whisperingsmith:
295m long and often nose to tail with Artics on it going to the Middle East.
Where there many artics about in the 16th century ■■ 
whisperingsmith:
Anyone remember the old bridge in Svilengrad Bulgaria, built by Mustapha Pasha & opened in 1529?295m long and often nose to tail with Artics on it going to the Middle East.
Old Bridge, Svilengrad - Wikipedia
To be fair there probably would have been a lot of blank looks and head scratching in the day if told the road had to be 45 metres high above the river and the bridge had to span most of its entire length so could only be supported by posts at each end of it.