How come you dont see many of these in use in UK and Ireland? Other then training schools, ive seen very little seems to a big thing in Norway and Sweden. Seems to make sense when you only have 18tonne of goods send the rigid out and when youve 38+tonne of goods send out the trailer aswell. Instead of a empty trailer or half empty trailer coming home.
Im not trying to advertise for tenden, just google imaged European truck and trailer combo and they came up after a few clicks.
jakethesnake:
They don’t have them in training schools. If they did nobody would pass the reversing.
Or to put it another way a dumbed down training regime to go with a dumbed down road transport industry.Which would obviously all change by necessity if they allowed standard full size 45 ft trailers to be coupled up to a rigid as in Scandinavia and proposed for Europe under trials at present.
Having said that the few operators that use them here usually have an in house induction course before letting drivers loose as in the case of my previous employers.
jakethesnake:
They don’t have them in training schools. If they did nobody would pass the reversing. [emoji38]
Maybe the dual axle ones that havent got front turning axle, i used a bad example all the same. You want me to what, reverse this thing has a mind of its own [emoji2957]
We had quite a fleet of them where I worked until I retired, dog ‘n’ pup we called 'em! Two axle rigids and close-coupled twin axle trailers.
Followed you better than an artic and a doddle to reverse.
Loved them!
Ste46:
We had quite a fleet of them where I worked until I retired, dog ‘n’ pup we called 'em! Two axle rigids and close-coupled twin axle trailers.
Followed you better than an artic and a doddle to reverse.
Loved them!
Steve
Thats what i was thinking, especially for a owner operator or a small fleet who dont have 40foot trailer loads of work everyday, sone days you can use the rigid and trailer combo some days its just the rigid
I know what you mean. One side they are more versatile for the reasons you state, but then on the other tractor and trailer is better.
For example can’t really back door load and tip with a wagon and drag without splitting them up and shunting about.
You can’t leave the trailer somewhere to be loaded in the same way as if it’s a full load on a wagon and drag the truck has to be with it as well.
So whilst you can do trailer swaps you can only swap for a half a load if you see what I’m saying. Unless you’ve got those demount ones whatever there called like what wren kitchens use. But still a pain in the arse compared to a single trailer swap.
Actually not as bad as you think to reverse, just a very different technique which requires you to undo some old habits, having occassionally made a wrong turn with a turnpike double, which is technically harder that a drag due to having a extra articulation point but mostly due to such a shorter tongue/ yoke, I managed to back my way out of trouble without breaking it all down etc and I’m no super trucker by any means and just consider myself average talent, perhaps the adrenaline from the oh ■■■■ moment helped too …I just took my time didn’t let it get too out of shape, and shunt forward a bit if it did etc…
All That said, I admire those who can precise park them, the youngsters in Sweden have to blind side them for the test too I believe
There must be a reason why they make sense for certain operations but I don’t know what it is. The wagon n drag like I drive makes more sense to me although given the choice I’d still prefer an artic.
As for not being able to load/unload them on bays, it can be done. Back in the 90’s I worked for taylors of martley and they had some ‘normal’ wagon n drags on the nacanco contract, empty beer cans to brewery’s. They had cantilever doors on the front of the drag so you could open them and the same on the wagon at the back. Once opened they had some sort of way of closing the outfit up then a metal plate between the now small gap. Worked well.
This is ‘mine’ if you’re interested (probably not) [emoji23]
rsg1234567:
Actually not as bad as you think to reverse, just a very different technique which requires you to undo some old habits, having occassionally made a wrong turn with a turnpike double, which is technically harder that a drag due to having a extra articulation point but mostly due to such a shorter tongue/ yoke, I managed to back my way out of trouble without breaking it all down etc and I’m no super trucker by any means and just consider myself average talent, perhaps the adrenaline from the oh [zb] moment helped too …I just took my time didn’t let it get too out of shape, and shunt forward a bit if it did etc…
All That said, I admire those who can precise park them, the youngsters in Sweden have to blind side them for the test too I believe
Yeah rsg like anything comes good with practice although an A frame trailer takes more skill and patience than an artic to reverse. .
Some cope better than others and I have come across a few who never seem to get any better. Can make an experienced artic driver look silly.
Ah taylors of martley, “you dont wanna come in that way drive” too late i saod as I’m now in your yard and by luck your 4 pallets of wine are still at the front…[emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]
truckertang:
Ah taylors of martley, “you dont wanna come in that way drive” too late i saod as I’m now in your yard and by luck your 4 pallets of wine are still at the front…[emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
We would have been sacked on the spot if we’d have turned right out of the yard instead of going through the village [emoji23]
Apparently it was because the ‘old man’, Donald, lived that way and didn’t want the noise [emoji23]
I passed in a wag and drag and found reversing fine, it cuts in faster than an artic reversing however around corners it just follows you just allow the extra room. Artics do cut in a lot faster tho when going forwards.
newo:
I passed in a wag and drag and found reversing fine, it cuts in faster than an artic reversing however around corners it just follows you just allow the extra room. Artics do cut in a lot faster tho when going forwards.
Rowley010:
I know what you mean. One side they are more versatile for the reasons you state, but then on the other tractor and trailer is better.
For example can’t really back door load and tip with a wagon and drag without splitting them up and shunting about.
You can’t leave the trailer somewhere to be loaded in the same way as if it’s a full load on a wagon and drag the truck has to be with it as well.
So whilst you can do trailer swaps you can only swap for a half a load if you see what I’m saying. Unless you’ve got those demount ones whatever there called like what wren kitchens use. But still a pain in the arse compared to a single trailer swap.
The ideal is a demount body on the prime mover and use the trailer in just the same way as an artic trailer.Which is how I used the things which meant box and trailer swaps just like swapping an artic trailer but with the advantage that it’s easier to cater for multi depot collections/drops and just swapping demount boxes with a rigid is no big deal.As in my case the prime mover was based in Feltham and its box was loaded there then collect the trailer at Luton take them both to Dewsbury swap the box and the trailer and the reverse on the return.While A frames have a much higher tolerance of weight distribution in that you can load the prime mover to the max gross on the rear axles without having to worry about any weight transfer from the front of the trailer.Especially in the case of going for full length artic type trailers which the Scandinavians like to use and which would be effectively impossible without using a turntable/dolly.
While reversing them isn’t the absolute nightmare it’s made out to be just different and actually I found it a nice challenge to add some more interest to the job even in the rare case of also swapping demount trailer boxes.
On that note the demount or skeletal 6 or 8 wheeler rigid,coupled to a 45ft semi trailer of whatever type using a dolly,configuration would be a game changer for the industry in terms of efficiency and flexibility.Providing any permutation of flat/tilt/fridge/box bodies,or even a combination of any,with the same outfit with around 40t + payload and better fuel consumption per tonne mile.
The big benefit in wag’n’drag (assuming the wagon is big and long and heavy enough to control the drag) is the length of prime mover wheel base leading to ride quality that artic drivers can only dream of…ie Nomi’s motor as pictured above i would expect is rock solid unshakeable on the road?
Not so keen on this century’s car transporter designs where a standard tractor unit is fitted with a drag towing hitch, obviously behind the drive axle, towing a bigger longer and heavier trailer with the axles only just behind the centre line, not uncommon to find the tail wagging the dog on those, most unstable combination i’ve ever driven.
Quite a few tipper wagon and pups getting around nowadays, both on stone and coated. You can tip both without uncoupling which has advantages. Hoveringham at Cromford had one years ago, an AEC, but I’m told that one driver had a tendency to leave the trailer at a council depot in Brum etc after he tipped it while he went to another depot to tip the truck. Sometimes he got back to the quarry without the trailer though!
I did drive an ‘A frame’ drag ( like the ones in the pics above (Tenden)) for just over 3 years.
I had trouble with reversing the first week, then I just became natural.
Juddian:
The big benefit in wag’n’drag (assuming the wagon is big and long and heavy enough to control the drag) is the length of prime mover wheel base leading to ride quality that artic drivers can only dream of…ie Nomi’s motor as pictured above i would expect is rock solid unshakeable on the road?
Not so keen on this century’s car transporter designs where a standard tractor unit is fitted with a drag towing hitch, obviously behind the drive axle, towing a bigger longer and heavier trailer with the axles only just behind the centre line, not uncommon to find the tail wagging the dog on those, most unstable combination i’ve ever driven.
A frames are a game changer regarding the tail wagging the dog situation.IE the turntable and bogie/dolly is effectively the same thing as the superimposition of the semi trailer onto an artic tractor unit.IE the weight imposed over the bogie keeps it line just as in the case of an artic tractor unit so little if any lateral movement applied to the A frame at point of coupling just as the much heavier trailer doesn’t wag a tractor unit.That’s why the Swedes etc can happily pull a 40t + trailer with a 25t rigid.You couldn’t do that with just a direct coupling behind the prime mover’s drive axle because the nose weight of the trailer uses it as a fulcrum point and lifts the prime mover’s steer axle.While at the same time the lateral and directional stability of the trailer is all dependent on the prime mover’s steer axle stopping the trailer from revolving the prime mover laterally around it’s drive/rear axle/s.Which is mainly what causes the tail wagging the dog,light steer axle and the trailer then trying to revolve the whole lot around the drive/rear axle of the prime mover.In addition to the problem of a tail heavy trailer creating the opposite effect of a light drive axle combined with a lateral force times distance effect acting on the pin thereby also swinging the outfit from side to side from the rear.
The close coupled design being just a bigger version of a typical car and caravan set up in that regard with all the same flaws and dangers.Which is how we ended up with a close coupled drawbar outfit on its side facing southbound in the northbound carriageway of the M6 and its driver having totally lost his bottle to ever drive a truck again and I took over his run, before the welcome move to A frames.
before the welcome move to A frames.