Another driver has told me that soon, Ltd. Co. drivers will not be able to go through agencies.
He said agency drivers will have to go PAYE with the agency or sign up for the big companies and go PAYE with them.
He said Ltd. Companies will be able to send invoices direct to the bigger companies but there could be a 90 day wait for the invoice to be paid.
I am waiting to speak with my accountant but I wonder what drivers here know?
Depends on the contract you have with the agency; I’ve worked through my ltd company for years. There was a push a few years back to clamp down on agencies avoiding taxes by having staff go “self employed” when by any measure they’re really employed. To demonstrate you’re really an independent company you need to show you can decide what work you do, when, where, how. The easiest clause to insert in your contract is that you can substitute another driver for yourself at any time (of course that shift might suddenly be cancelled if you tried, but the contract says you can and as such recognises you as an independent company, not an individual). It is also worth taking occasional shifts from another source, again to demonstrate you’re not dependent on one company for all your work.
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aposhark:
I am waiting to speak with my accountant but I wonder what drivers here know?
HMRC has said that the vast majority of drivers who are self employed do not meet the criteria for self employment and as far as they’re concerned if you don’t own the truck you’re not self employed.
I expect there to be a continuation of the crackdown that has already started with people getting some eye watering tax bills.
Given how many agencies pay a rate above PAYE so low that it doesn’t even cover the holiday pay and workplace pension you don’t get I reckon it’ll all come to an end in the near future, especially once the Swedish Derogation is revoked next year and the PAYE agency drivers in some places end up with a payrise as a result whilst the self employed won’t as the AWR doesn’t apply to them.
Thanks for the replies.
I occasionally work with other agencies and at different locations other than my main agency/client combination.
I have not received any notification from my accountant that I should do anything else to conform with the “rules”.
I wait to chat with him.
Guess what- a certain somebody has all the answers!
Think it’s fair to say that HGV drivers are not that different ( ok , debatable point…) to the rest of humanity and self employed/ limited works very well in many other industries.
As for HMRC charging you huge amounts- if you make reasonable deductions, submit returns when due and pay tax due, I’d love to know what these huge tax demands will consist of!
There appears to be a confusion ( by some- not all) between flexible working arrangements, whether self employed or a limited company, and PAYE.
If you do the former legitimately, paying tax and NI due, trust me, HMRC will be utterly disinterested.
As for “ my transport manager was at a conference about CPC stuff and related matters and if you haven’t got an Operator’s Licence you can’t be self employed…
Guess what? I’ll be radical and take financial advice from accountants…
Good luck whichever way you go[emoji1]
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Maybe this is why i keep seeing adverts offering much better rates and stating PAYE ?
It will always be better to be paid £16-£20ph on PAYE than the same rates on Ltd Co.
Don’t knock it!
Winseer:
It will always be better to be paid £16-£20ph on PAYE than the same rates on Ltd Co.Don’t knock it!
There was a…
Time when Ltd was worth much more than PAYE. Like anything that made the driver a profit it’s been lost forever now.
Winnifred1:
Guess what- a certain somebody has all the answers!
Think it’s fair to say that HGV drivers are not that different ( ok , debatable point…) to the rest of humanity and self employed/ limited works very well in many other industries.
As for HMRC charging you huge amounts- if you make reasonable deductions, submit returns when due and pay tax due, I’d love to know what these huge tax demands will consist of!
There appears to be a confusion ( by some- not all) between flexible working arrangements, whether self employed or a limited company, and PAYE.
If you do the former legitimately, paying tax and NI due, trust me, HMRC will be utterly disinterested.
As for “ my transport manager was at a conference about CPC stuff and related matters and if you haven’t got an Operator’s Licence you can’t be self employed…
Guess what? I’ll be radical and take financial advice from accountants…
Good luck whichever way you go[emoji1]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have Goggle, Jeeves, logic, common sense, libraries, news sites, and many other sources of information, and the means to cite, cross reference, and check on, sources.
If anyone says "Trust me… "
But why would a driver be self employed or a Ltd Co, rather than what I believe the HMRC, (check their website yourselves) refer to as “employees with more than one employer”?
Go on answer. I trust ya! [emoji5]
Of course, rather than pay an accountant, we could all ask a tax official for free.
Maybe we don’t trust them though?
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aposhark:
Thanks for the replies.
I occasionally work with other agencies and at different locations other than my main agency/client combination.
I have not received any notification from my accountant that I should do anything else to conform with the “rules”.
I wait to chat with him.
Just remember that working for two agencies doesn’t mean you aren’t being employed by both of them casually, as opposed to running your own business.
It’s a matter of common sense generally whether you are a businessman or a mere agency worker. Would your friends think of your daily activity as being consistent with the status of a businessman, or would they just consider you a casual and a day-labourer?
Rjan:
Just remember that working for two agencies doesn’t mean you aren’t being employed by both of them casually, as opposed to running your own business.It’s a matter of common sense generally whether you are a businessman or a mere agency worker. Would your friends think of your daily activity as being consistent with the status of a businessman, or would they just consider you a casual and a day-labourer?
I will comment further when I have clarified the situation with my accountant who has always given me good advice for the money my limited company pays him, not based on hearsay or what “friends think”.
I worked…
Directly for different clients as well as through the agencies.
No agency no middleman just me invoicing the client under my agreed terms.
Maigret:
Self-employed drivers: elephants are not giraffes - Ashtons Legal Solicitors
Funny that I don’t see many consultants in the private health sector having their own hospital, beds and operating theatre. Are they employees too then or are they not self employed?
In reality most do some NHS work alongside their ‘private work’. Be very interested if HMRC ask them if they can send a substitute.
Many drivers go self employed because they want to but being self employed is more than just stating it. Involves having correct insurances, operating a pay roll, pension scheme, proper invoicing and the rest. And taking the risk. The risk is…there may be no work.
Trouble is a lot of them don’t do that.
Maigret:
Self-employed drivers: elephants are not giraffes - Ashtons Legal Solicitors
Limited company drivers are not self-employed.
Agencies won’t take on self-employed drivers. They do however take on limited company drivers.
google “self-employed vs limited company” to understand the difference.
Self-employed drivers aren’t registered with Companies House, they aren’t on the payroll of their own limited company, and they don’t receive dividends.
Limited company drivers are registered with Companies House, they are on the payroll of their own limited company, and they do receive dividends.
Winnifred1:
As for HMRC charging you huge amounts- if you make reasonable deductions, submit returns when due and pay tax due, I’d love to know what these huge tax demands will consist of!
Tax due on the income that was offset by expenses claims, especially travel. One agency driver I know who has Ltd puts his car, a car for his wife, “wages” he “pays” her and a whole load of other stuff. He brags about not paying a penny in tax.
If you do the former legitimately, paying tax and NI due, trust me, HMRC will be utterly disinterested.
You sure? They’re missing out on employers NI from the agency, equivalent to 11% of your annual income above roughly £7k a year so if you’re earning £37k a year from the agency self employed that is £3300 or so they’re missing out on in employer’s NI.
Guess what? I’ll be radical and take financial advice from accountants…
Because they’re always right… There’s a lot of people in the IT sector who fell foul of IR35 despite being told by accountants they were OK that would disagree with the confidence you place in accountants. Accountants aren’t the ones who make the rules and make the decision as to whether you’re legitimately self employed, HMRC are. Accountants you’re paying however do have a vested financial interest in keeping you as a customer…
aposhark:
Rjan:
Just remember that working for two agencies doesn’t mean you aren’t being employed by both of them casually, as opposed to running your own business.It’s a matter of common sense generally whether you are a businessman or a mere agency worker. Would your friends think of your daily activity as being consistent with the status of a businessman, or would they just consider you a casual and a day-labourer?
I will comment further when I have clarified the situation with my accountant who has always given me good advice for the money my limited company pays him, not based on hearsay or what “friends think”.
Of course, and I think we’ll all be interested to hear the advice you receive.
But also bear in mind, many of those now being whacked with tax bills, were advised by accountants, and the answer you receive may not be definitive, and will hinge on what you tell the accountant.
The obligation of an accountant is only to prepare accounts that are reasonable based on the information provided to him, it is not to test the veracity of the information provided or to decide hard points of law.
The HMRC which has its own accountants, and lawyers, are clear that they do not view so-called labour-only driving subcontractors as being self-employed. They view them as casuals who come under the PAYE regime.
The gamble that most people are taking is that they are not ultimately investigated, and that the passage of time, the loss of evidence and records, the amounts of tax involved, and the limitation periods will work in their favour.
I know of one driver who for many years just didn’t even register for tax, and for years got away with it. But when they did get hit shortly before retirement, the taxman took everything, and while that might be alright for those who live day to day and accumulate very little (which describes the driver in question), it isn’t a good prospect for those who intend to have assets in later life.
And looking to the future, the pendulum is clearly swinging back against these tax fiddles.
aposhark:
Rjan:
Just remember that working for two agencies doesn’t mean you aren’t being employed by both of them casually, as opposed to running your own business.It’s a matter of common sense generally whether you are a businessman or a mere agency worker. Would your friends think of your daily activity as being consistent with the status of a businessman, or would they just consider you a casual and a day-labourer?
I will comment further when I have clarified the situation with my accountant who has always given me good advice for the money my limited company pays him, not based on hearsay or what “friends think”.
Would that be the same account who will lose money if he says you are employed and need to go paye so loses your services?
The same account who if you are investigated and lose will say based on what you told me I thought you were self employed but you told me wrong so sorry not my problem?
Maybe it’s legal but doesn’t look sure to me and I don’t fancy looking over my shoulder
When I was self employed I always found HMRC an absolute pleasure to deal with, in fact they often sent me complimentary letters telling me that my tax return was "outstanding " when in all honesty I couldn’t even remember sending it in!