Damage Clause In Your Contract?

Morning folks,
Following on from another post where a recently qualified driver is looking for advice about a named North Yorkshire fridge haulier, it seems his chosen firm might spank their drivers for 500 quid if they damage anything. I recently had a similar experience as I’m coming back into the industry after a 17 year break from professional driving and whereas I’m by no means a new driver, I’m very aware that some stuff will have changed during that time.
When I took early retirement from the emergency services last year, I renewed my class 1 licence, paid for and sat through 5 days of DCPC training and got myself a digicard so I could go back on the road. At my age and with the family commitments I have, I’m not arsed for long hours and nights out so I chose a skip firm in Leeds (they’re “big and yellow”) and wrote to them asking if they had any driving jobs going. I got a call the next day and was invited for interview…they offered me the job there and then and I started soon afterwards.

Now to the point…at the interview, at no point was I told about their policy to “fine” drivers £250 for every bit of damage so when I turned up on day 1 and they went through the contract, this came as a bit of a surprise. This isn’t a bonus that would be lost if damage caused but a fine from the drivers wages, to be taken at £50 a week! Now, with 14 years HGV driving experience before I joined the services in 2001, I’m old and ugly enough to know that even the most careful driver will eventually make a mistake and damage might be caused. It’s just human nature. I wasn’t happy about it but I wanted the job, so I thought I’d give it a go although I felt like the firm had cheated me and it didn’t feel right. As it turned out, the firm was appalling to work for in many other ways and have a huge turnover of drivers so I voted with my feet and left after 3 months for another job with a company that operates a bonus for not damaging stuff, they don’t “fine” folks.

Is it common these days for employers to take money from hardworking drivers if they make genuine mistakes? Isn’t that what insurance is for?

No doubt covering excess or just to cover cost of repair, that’s if they even bother repairing it. Personally I wouldn’t work for such a firm because like you say these things will happen, I would imagine more likely on a skip wagon as well. Could also be the result of high staff turnover resulting in poor quality drivers that just don’t care

I used to do it. Negligent damage, why should I pay for it? They would get one “free” go in every twelve months.

I paid exceptionally good money, gave them the best motors I could, uniforms, anything they wanted within reason. After I introduced a £250 deduction, silly incidents declined dramatically.

None of them ever complained about it, they were working men like myself, who appreciated their jobs, and the hard work we all put in. We actually were a “team”.

I’m still friends with the ones who are still around, which I think speaks for itself.

Drempels:
I used to do it. Negligent damage, why should I pay for it? They would get one “free” go in every twelve months.

I paid exceptionally good money, gave them the best motors I could, uniforms, anything they wanted within reason. After I introduced a £250 deduction, silly incidents declined dramatically.

None of them ever complained about it, they were working men like myself, who appreciated their jobs, and the hard work we all put in. We actually were a “team”.

I’m still friends with the ones who are still around, which I think speaks for itself.

I see where…

You’re coming from but, what about damage that the driver sustained whilst away from the vehicle? Unless he/she can prove beyond doubt they didn’t do it, they could be penalised for something that’s not their fault.

As for the OP, I wouldn’t be signing anything at all that specified I’d be paying the first X of any damage. I wouldn’t be applying for work that stated those sort of terms either.

yourhavingalarf:

Drempels:
I used to do it. Negligent damage, why should I pay for it? They would get one “free” go in every twelve months.

I paid exceptionally good money, gave them the best motors I could, uniforms, anything they wanted within reason. After I introduced a £250 deduction, silly incidents declined dramatically.

None of them ever complained about it, they were working men like myself, who appreciated their jobs, and the hard work we all put in. We actually were a “team”.

I’m still friends with the ones who are still around, which I think speaks for itself.

I see where…

You’re coming from but, what about damage that the driver sustained whilst away from the vehicle? Unless he/she can prove beyond doubt they didn’t do it, they could be penalised for something that’s not their fault.

As for the OP, I wouldn’t be signing anything at all that specified I’d be paying the first X of any damage. I wouldn’t be applying for work that stated those sort of terms either.

How many times have I heard that one. How many times has it happened to me? Never. I’m careful about where I park, I fold mirrors in at night if I think it looks tight. I have seen motors hit by others whilst parked, and I’ve twice had a motor hit whilst I’ve been sitting in it. Sure, it happens, but for it to happen to the same bloke four times in as many months… See what I mean?

Drempels:
Sure, it happens, but for it to happen to the same bloke four times in as many months… See what I mean?

You didn’t…

Point that out origionally and I’d agree with you, anyone who has four non-fault bumps is about as honest as a politician an a hotel suite counting out the cash. But, damage can be done without the drivers knowledge and they could be paying for something they didn’t do which is clearly unfair.

Damage done to a vehicle: would a less than scrupulous employer go the trouble of chasing a contested claim, write off any NCB or take the easy, cheap, quick, option of docking the driver?

Im glad Im not a newbie having to look at these terms and conditions today.

As I said on the other thread, it’s a liberty, a ■■■■ take, and an illustration of what happens when drivers do not stick together either in a Trade Union or a union with a small ‘u’.

This sort of dog ■■■■ was what was fought against by our Grandfathers, but has just been handed back to the employers by the spineless.
They’ll have us paying for diesel and tyres next.

Just a controversial curveball to chuck in here…but I can not help thinking and suspecting that the idea came about when bosses saw that drivers were actually willing to spend ■■■■ thousands customising the trucks they drove, so then it was a case of…
‘‘Hang on a minute, if they are actually doing that, I’ve just had a brilliant idea’’

yourhavingalarf:

Drempels:
Sure, it happens, but for it to happen to the same bloke four times in as many months… See what I mean?

You didn’t…

Point that out origionally and I’d agree with you, anyone who has four non-fault bumps is about as honest as a politician an a hotel suite counting out the cash. But, damage can be done without the drivers knowledge and they could be paying for something they didn’t do which is clearly unfair.

No, I didn’t. Thing is, from a driver’s point of view, you have no idea of what goes on with some employees, and why should you, it’s not your job. I have loads of examples, but this is one of my favourites…

Few years ago, I went back to mechanicing, at the request of a mate of mine who owns a skip hire firm. One Monday afternoon, I’m bumbling around doing some little jobs when he rings me and asks me to come up to his office. Driver is outside, and lorry has damage to O/S/F corner. Driver claims he was parked up and it got hit by a van on Friday. Go into office and boss is holding a bit of paper, showing the lorry in a street somewhere in Willesden, with a van driving away.

Driver says he went to the council, got a still of the CCTV and this proves it (you can see where this is going). Boss says to me, there’s something wrong with this pic, but I can’t put my finger on it. I looked at it, and being a vehicle enthusiast, I clocked it immediately, every vehicle was from the 1990s and matey had photoshopped the lorry into it! After I pointed this out, and there probably wasn’t CCTV there in the 90s, he went very quiet, then got very angry (and he’s a scary bloke) then promptly sacked the driver.

An hour or so later he comes into the workshop absolutely wetting himself laughing, looking at the picture, and repeatedly saying he couldn’t believe it. He had it framed

This is the kind of thing you’re dealing with…

robroy:
As I said on the other thread, it’s a liberty, a ■■■■ take, and an illustration of what happens when drivers do not stick together either in a Trade Union or a union with a small ‘u’.

This sort of dog [zb] was what was fought against by our Grandfathers, but has just been handed back to the employers by the spineless.
They’ll have us paying for diesel and tyres next.

Just a controversial curveball to chuck in here…but I can not help thinking and suspecting that the idea came about when bosses saw that drivers were actually willing to spend [zb] thousands customising the trucks they drove, so then it was a case of…
‘‘Hang on a minute, if they are actually doing that, I’ve just had a brilliant idea’’

Thing is, it wasn’t handed over by the spineless. It was taken away by a Labour government, who opened the doors to millions of superhumans from Eastern Bloc countries.

Drempels:

robroy:
As I said on the other thread, it’s a liberty, a ■■■■ take, and an illustration of what happens when drivers do not stick together either in a Trade Union or a union with a small ‘u’.

This sort of dog [zb] was what was fought against by our Grandfathers, but has just been handed back to the employers by the spineless.
They’ll have us paying for diesel and tyres next.

Just a controversial curveball to chuck in here…but I can not help thinking and suspecting that the idea came about when bosses saw that drivers were actually willing to spend [zb] thousands customising the trucks they drove, so then it was a case of…
‘‘Hang on a minute, if they are actually doing that, I’ve just had a brilliant idea’’

Thing is, it wasn’t handed over by the spineless. It was taken away by a Labour government, who opened the doors to millions of superhumans from Eastern Bloc countries.

Nah you can’t blame the EEs for every bloody thing mate.
Ok I’ll go with you so far as they also have their share of rivets as well as us Brits.
Just take my point for a minute…if the first …say two companies (at the time when things started turning to ■■■■, say mid to late 90s at a guess, when drivers started accepted any bloody thing ) sudenlly rocked up and said ‘‘Right lads, as from Mon we are going to’’…charge for damage/stop your + 40 hour overtime rate/have cameras facing you/gonna pressurise you to do 15hr days/not pay you any longer for parking…and/or any other ■■■■ take modern management policy you can come up with, …and the lads said…‘‘Aye, and ■■■■ you, we’re standing together and not putting up with that crap’’ …What could they do? Sack every driver?
Nah…not the EEs this time mate, spineless Brits end of.

I’m not blaming them, I would do the same thing in their position. I’m blaming a government who laughably called themselves Labour, for undermining their very own principles and de-valuing the lives of their voters.

The bottom line is; more of something makes it worth less. Sadly, this applies to humans now. If we have more drivers, we don’t need to value them. If they protest against cameras, or long hours, or whatever, just get rid of them and get somebody else in, who doesn’t have any long-term interest. Who cares if they do a bit of damage, everything’s leased, it’s all insured, the contract will have gone to another firm by the time the lease agreement is up. This applies to drivers wherever they’re from.

This is of course, nothing new. Every time the working class in the UK starts to achieve a bit of (relative) prosperity, the taps are turned on, and the labour pool is diluted, resulting in more people competing for fewer jobs. Every government of every hue has done it, they are just cheeks of the same arse.

Drempels:
I’m not blaming them, I would do the same thing in their position. I’m blaming a government who laughably called themselves Labour, for undermining their very own principles and de-valuing the lives of their voters.

The bottom line is; more of something makes it worth less. Sadly, this applies to humans now. If we have more drivers, we don’t need to value them. If they protest against cameras, or long hours, or whatever, just get rid of them and get somebody else in, who doesn’t have any long-term interest. Who cares if they do a bit of damage, everything’s leased, it’s all insured, the contract will have gone to another firm by the time the lease agreement is up. This applies to drivers wherever they’re from.

This is of course, nothing new. Every time the working class in the UK starts to achieve a bit of (relative) prosperity, the taps are turned on, and the labour pool is diluted, resulting in more people competing for fewer jobs. Every government of every hue has done it, they are just cheeks of the same arse.

Something we agree on mate, Labour Party for the working people ? (ie…their raison d’ etre Rodney) my Arse.

Bottom line is the job’s ■■■■ ed, principles are ■■■■ ed, loyalty to good employees are ■■■■ ed, in fact the whole sorry arsed UK is ■■■■ ed.
Other than that everythings fine eh?

Drempels:
This is the kind of thing you’re dealing with…

I don’t doubt…

For a second that this is the kind of thing you’ve had to put up with or worse, pay out for. I worked for a small 4 man outfit and the gaffer was a good bloke. He specifically pointed out to one driver to make sure the suzies were out of harms way when shunting for empty cans in the yard. Sure as eggs is eggs he gets a call at silly o’clock from that driver saying all his suzies were wrapped around the propshaft and he couldn’t pick up the container and take it to Felix. I really do feel your pain.

I still say that drivers paying for damage is the thin end of the wedge. Gaffers/agencies are happy to take the profit from this industry but also have to except that damge will be inevitable from some drivers.

Gonna go out on a limb here, I know some drivers who are 100% damage free for 30+years…100%.

Interesting subject, Personally i wouldnt allow any company to charge me for damage to a vehicle, ok accidents happen, drivers do not deliberately do the damage, BUT, some of it can be avoided if the driver took extra care…for eg, If a driver was given a reward for careful driving, maybe he might treat the equipment better, but no guarantees eh !
I worked for a large company who renewed their trucks and trailers every 3 years, and paid cash too…but their insurance was sky high due to various mishaps, drivers jumping the pin and wrecking the back of the cab, mirrors being ripped off, along with airlines, lights and clusters, the list is endless, and their damage bill was £350.000 per year…but never ever brought in a waiver for the drivers, merely notices on the wall, and extra training ( as if that would stop it ) but although we employed a few EE`s…it was never any of them that caused the damage…sad to say it was mostly agency drivers, and a few regular brit drivers…i mean…we ran only fridges…but i saw one guy ( agency ) laying on the catwalk in his brand new hi-viz coat…to put the airlines on…when i asked him why he didnt split -couple…told me he didnt know how !! and no matter what we said to the TM, it didnt make any difference, as they used agency every day, and that was that…no induction beforehand, and as per usual earned more that the regular salaried drivers, yet di the most damage.

Like ROB pointed out, us oldies had it good in our day, but those who came after bent over backwards and changed the terms to the 15 hour day…only 9 off…and pay as you go for your own accidents, and it will stay that way until drivers get a backbone and stand up for themselves, and tell their bosses theyre not doing this and that anymore…end of.

robroy:

Drempels:
I’m not blaming them, I would do the same thing in their position. I’m blaming a government who laughably called themselves Labour, for undermining their very own principles and de-valuing the lives of their voters.

The bottom line is; more of something makes it worth less. Sadly, this applies to humans now. If we have more drivers, we don’t need to value them. If they protest against cameras, or long hours, or whatever, just get rid of them and get somebody else in, who doesn’t have any long-term interest. Who cares if they do a bit of damage, everything’s leased, it’s all insured, the contract will have gone to another firm by the time the lease agreement is up. This applies to drivers wherever they’re from.

This is of course, nothing new. Every time the working class in the UK starts to achieve a bit of (relative) prosperity, the taps are turned on, and the labour pool is diluted, resulting in more people competing for fewer jobs. Every government of every hue has done it, they are just cheeks of the same arse.

Something we agree on mate, Labour Party for the working people ? (ie…their raison d’ etre Rodney) my Arse.

Bottom line is the job’s [zb] ed, principles are [zb] ed, loyalty to good employees are [zb] ed, in fact the whole sorry arsed UK is [zb] ed.
Other than that everythings fine eh?

Think you summed it up pretty well!

A few have said they wouldn’t work for a company with a damage policy like that…neither would I!! If they’d been up-front enough to tell me at the interview I wouldn’t have taken the job, that’s my point…they were sneaky so-and-so’s and only told me on the first day. Arses.

Picklehoffer:
A few have said they wouldn’t work for a company with a damage policy like that…neither would I!! If they’d been up-front enough to tell me at the interview I wouldn’t have taken the job, that’s my point…they were sneaky so-and-so’s and only told me on the first day. Arses.

Agree with you, they should be upfront from the start, then everybody knows where they stand. I hate that sneaky ■■■■.

yourhavingalarf:

Drempels:
This is the kind of thing you’re dealing with…

I don’t doubt…

For a second that this is the kind of thing you’ve had to put up with or worse, pay out for. I worked for a small 4 man outfit and the gaffer was a good bloke. He specifically pointed out to one driver to make sure the suzies were out of harms way when shunting for empty cans in the yard. Sure as eggs is eggs he gets a call at silly o’clock from that driver saying all his suzies were wrapped around the propshaft and he couldn’t pick up the container and take it to Felix. I really do feel your pain.

I still say that drivers paying for damage is the thin end of the wedge. Gaffers/agencies are happy to take the profit from this industry but also have to except that damge will be inevitable from some drivers.

Gonna go out on a limb here, I know some drivers who are 100% damage free for 30+years…100%.

More power to the accident-free guys, good on them. We should be trying to “raise awareness” to use a pointy-shoe buzzword, about how much there is to being a driver. Vast majority of folks don’t have a clue.

Drempels:

yourhavingalarf:

Drempels:
I still say that drivers paying for damage is the thin end of the wedge. Gaffers/agencies are happy to take the profit from this industry but also have to except that damge will be inevitable from some drivers.

Gonna go out on a limb here, I know some drivers who are 100% damage free for 30+years…100%.

More power to the accident-free guys, good on them. We should be trying to “raise awareness” to use a pointy-shoe buzzword, about how much there is to being a driver. Vast majority of folks don’t have a clue.

Thing is though it doesn’t matter if you’ve done the job for 30 years or 30 minutes, anybody can have an accident by it’s very nature and definition.
You can’t just say ''Right that’s it, I aint having anymore accidents.

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The job I do for instance, …every week taking a 44 tonne truck with a 14’ 9 trailer down roads that are not designed for such, narrow and tight as ■■■■ with overhanging trees, and totally unsuitable for artics, to remote farms.
In theory I could do damage every bloody week, certainly more chance than another driver delivering Tesco rdc.s, but there are no parameters of leeway to me, we are both working to the same ■■■■ stupid unreasonable rules, but doing work as different as chalk and cheese.