I know this has been covered before but I just want some clarification.
If a co revises contracts of employment with clauses you do not agree with, my belief is that if you just do not sign it, then by law it is still considered that you are still considered in agreeance to the terms of that contract anyway …correct?
So…if you disagree with certain clauses that in your opinion is unreasonable to the point of taking the ■■■■…Do you…
Refuse to sign it, but attatch a note pointing out you do not agreee with clauses x y and z to clarify why?
Sign it as an acknowledgement of receipt only, and then attatch the note of disagreeance?
Just hand it back unsigned but instead write out an official grievance letter in place of it?
Or some other option?
Also…Can they "make you’’ sign it in terms of…No signature no job.
Thanks
.
Option “B” every time: take your labour elsewhere bud. You know which way this crap is heading, we’ve spoken enough about it. Walk away and leave them to the dross drivers that they so richly deserve.
I’m sure you can have a kind of collective contract where if a certain percentage agree or don’t object even then it’s adopted throughout but I may be wrong.
Nice red pen crossing through whatever clauses with ‘unacceptable’ and signed/ initialled?
Regardless of what you do, new T&Cs are enforced, you might make a few grand should unfair dismissal become an option to pursue, as long as the tribunal agrees with you and you followed whatever the company’s protocol is when raising your objection.
You should be in a union, if you’re not, join one.
Hand it over to them.
I haven’t.
I am,…just want put in the picture armed with some knowledge, before I contact them.
I plan to if and when it becomes necessary…have not been issued with one yet.
They craftily appear to be handing them out one at a time at random, the only reason for that I can think of is they are issuing the certainties to sign first with theirs, and leaving the rest to last in case of any potential resistance to it.
Thanks anyway mate.
You should be in a union, if you’re not, join one.
Hand it over to them.
I haven’t.
I am,…just want put in the picture armed with some knowledge, before I contact them.
I plan to if and when it becomes necessary…have not been issued with one yet.
They craftily appear to be handing them out one at a time at random, the only reason for that I can think of is they are issuing the certainties to sign first l, and leaving the rest to last in case of any potential resistance to it.
Thanks anyway mate.
Yes, that’s a sneaky thing to do, and sadly, common. The thinking behind it is, to try and get it hung out for a while, leave the ones that might actually have some balls until last, then try to claim that it’s a collective ageeement in all but name, by virtue of custom and practice. Won’t work with a union that knows their stuff, but worth a shot, from their point of view.
Assuming it’s what you have posted before you need to not sign and then raise a grievance for an unfair change in t and c’s. That should stop disciplinary action for refusing to sign. That should be their next step rather than just leaving it. Nowadays tribunals are far less forgiving of firms who don’t have the paperwork signed.
There is nothing stopping a company changing t and C however it should not be a detrimental change to yourself. At that point redundancy should be offered.
Personally from what you have posted it looks like you won’t be there much longer so make sure they pay you to be on the way. To do that jump through the hoops.
the maoster:
Option “B” every time: take your labour elsewhere bud. You know which way this crap is heading, we’ve spoken enough about it. Walk away and leave them to the dross drivers that they so richly deserve.
I’ll just see what happens mate and act accordinglly.
As you say, we’ve both talked about this.
Thing is I’m doing a job efficientlly (and willinglly) there that nobody else wants or likes…except me,.so why the aggravation and agitation.
Ok, I aint saying all this crap is aimed directly at me, but as Juddian always says, they adapt a one size fits all policy, and base their treatment of driivers criteria, on the lowest common denominator of (■■■■ poor) driver.
The rest of us who can do the job and actually know what we are doing without being ■■■■ wet nursed like some, are caught up in all this ■■■■.
It would be a shame to jack a job I like doing, especially as I’ve managed to get my personal t.s and c.s sorted to suit me in terms of hours worked/time off etc.which may be difficult anywhere else.
I’ve spoke to at least two other good drivers who have done it all, t.shirt etc etc, if we all did leave, as you say they’ll be left with quite a lot of dross, not all btw, but quite a few, but who knows, maybe this is what they are aiming for a bunch of yes men who will just do as they are told by them whatever ■■■■ they are told to do.
Simply put a line through the parts you disagree with and return it, signed and initial your amendments. Subsequently raise a grievance against the proposed changes to your T&C’s, outlining the reasons for your objection to the changes.
Honestscott76:
Simply put a line through the parts you disagree with and return it, signed and initial your amendments. Subsequently raise a grievance against the proposed changes to your T&C’s, outlining the reasons for your objection to the changes.
Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
I was thinking along those lines myself mate prior to posting.
I’ll just sit tight and wait for it to arrive, and at the same time get Union advice.
Just a pity the Union membership at the co was not more popular, maybe they would think twice about all this sort of crap.
ALL the lads I talk to in strong Union firms seem to avoid it (surprise surprise) but there you go.
Thanks a lot everybody for the input…off for a kip.
robroy:
I know this has been covered before but I just want some clarification.
If a co revises contracts of employment with clauses you do not agree with, my belief is that if you just do not sign it, then by law it is still considered that you are still considered in agreeance to the terms of that contract anyway …correct?
So…if you disagree with certain clauses that in your opinion is unreasonable to the point of taking the ■■■■…Do you…
Refuse to sign it, but attatch a note pointing out you do not agreee with clauses x y and z to clarify why?
Sign it as an acknowledgement of receipt only, and then attatch the note of disagreeance?
Just hand it back unsigned but instead write out an official grievance letter in place of it?
Or some other option?
Also…Can they "make you’’ sign it in terms of…No signature no job.
Thanks
.
I’m sure they have 90 days in which they can inform you of their intended changes to contract. Then after that they can basically rip up your contract & put you on new one.
I think the ‘blue pencil rule’ is still used in English law, that is where a blue pencil line is drawn through any parts of a contract you deem unfair, not sure that the pen colour has to be blue though any-more! This is where a union is needed, collective bargaining is what is needed in all situations like this. If you’ve been working in a job for months or even possibly years, the contract you have is an accepted practice and can’t be changed willy-nilly. Get legal advice!
Any change to a contract of employment must be agreed by both parties, them changing it without your agreement is usually against the contract of employment HOWEVER if you continue to work with the changes and not put in a formal complaint then you can be deemed as having accepted them.
If both parties cannot come to an agreement ultimately if the employer decides they want to force terms through they can make your current contract and position, and therefore you, redundant. Your options then are to be re-employed under the new contract terms or go find a job elsewhere.
A contract is supposed to be an agreement by all parties to do certain specified things. So what use is it if one side can break their agreement at will just because it doesn’t suit them? They can ask for a change, but no way should they demand a change under threat of ‘or else…’
I just dropped an agency who asked me to sign a new contract, the subtle difference being that the “New” one was a “one hour contract”, with the old one being the more usual Zero Hours Contract.
It is my understanding that a 1hr contract - obliges one to work one shift per week at their own discretion, and as such you strangely never qualify for “being paid if we cannot give you any work”.
I’m BUSY mid-week these days. If I can’t get weekend work at the agency, then they are no good to me any more.
Perhaps offering me a “weekends only” contract - would have stopped me walking away?
The agency emailed a new contract to me, asking me to print sign and return it. It was absurdly unfair. I edited it by inserting words like “not and never” wherever relevant. I printed off and signed two copies, asking the agency to sign one copy and return it to me. They duly did so and they never queried it.
Optimum:
The agency emailed a new contract to me, asking me to print sign and return it. It was absurdly unfair. I edited it by inserting words like “not and never” wherever relevant. I printed off and signed two copies, asking the agency to sign one copy and return it to me. They duly did so and they never queried it.
the maoster:
Option “B” every time: take your labour elsewhere bud. You know which way this crap is heading, we’ve spoken enough about it. Walk away and leave them to the dross drivers that they so richly deserve.
I’ll just see what happens mate and act accordinglly.
As you say, we’ve both talked about this.
Thing is I’m doing a job efficientlly (and willinglly) there that nobody else wants or likes…except me,.so why the aggravation and agitation.
Ok, I aint saying all this crap is aimed directly at me, but as Juddian always says, they adapt a one size fits all policy, and base their treatment of driivers criteria, on the lowest common denominator of (■■■■ poor) driver.
The rest of us who can do the job and actually know what we are doing without being [zb] wet nursed like some, are caught up in all this [zb].
It would be a shame to jack a job I like doing, especially as I’ve managed to get my personal t.s and c.s sorted to suit me in terms of hours worked/time off etc.which may be difficult anywhere else.
I’ve spoke to at least two other good drivers who have done it all, t.shirt etc etc, if we all did leave, as you say they’ll be left with quite a lot of dross, not all btw, but quite a few, but who knows, maybe this is what they are aiming for a bunch of yes men who will just do as they are told by them whatever [zb] they are told to do.
Most fellas overestimate their individual value. The profit difference between two competent people following broadly equivalent practices is probably pennies an hour. And of course, most would simply imagine themselves to be a cut above.
What broadly determines pay rate is shared collective expectations about what a reasonable wage looks like, not your individual “value” as if it has any independent measure.
