We’ve just been told not to record ‘unnecessary’ manual entries when we pop our cards in at the start of our shifts. Unnecessary has been explained as “those couple of minutes before and after you insert and eject your card at the begining and end of your shift”. You know… those few minutes of incovenience collecting paperwork and keys, and finding and walking to one’s vehicle. We’ve been told “our cards should be in within the first 5 minutes of our shifts”, and to do a manual entry only if we’ve waited for a lorry. All this in the name of ‘efficiency’. Somehow I suspect they’re minute pinching, as we’re paid off our tachos.
I’m of the opinion this is legally wrong because once I enter the office at the start of my shift (bang on the particular hour), I’m on duty, waiting for keys and paperwork, and walking to my vehicle, none of which I’m doing for love, all of which I’m doing to earn money under the instruction of my employer. I’m always visualising what Mr. VOSA would say about the things I’m often asked to do should I be stopped at the roadside, and my tacho/vehicle inspected.
I’ve politely told them I shall continue entering manual entries, and my manager, weirdly enough, sided with me but is simply trying to implement the order from above
Ensure that their driver card is inserted into the correct slot (driver in slot 1, second driver in slot 2 from the moment they take over the vehicle, and that it is ready for use, before the vehicle is moved
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Ensure that ALL duties conducted since the driver card was last removed from a tachograph are manually entered onto the card record, using the manual entry facility on the tachograph
Agreed they are trying to save money. 5 minutes at each end of the shift will probably cost you 15 minutes pay. I don’t know how many drivers at your place but that will add up to a tidy saving.
As you are and as the post above do them. Both for pay and your legal compliance
Carrying on doing what you do. If they moan at you for it tell the manager that you will phone DVSA and name the company and ask for their view if this practise is compliant or not. If it is then you will do as they ask. I think they would quite quickly try to stop you making that phone call though.
One day I was asked to collect the company van from a truck dealership that had carried warranty work on a unit and the driver had used the van to start from there.
I went as passenger in another unit and put my card into tacho. when I got out I took my card and got into van and made written entry on printout. On the way back to yard I took a 45 min. break and entered that on printout and on arrival at yard put the final details on printout.
As there were no units in yard I was unable to do a manual entry on card and simply attached printout to timesheet. For my trouble I was issued with an infringement because the company that did the tacho. analysis work didn’t take any notice of written entries. As we were paid by tacho.hours we had to cover every minute.
As in the machine logs how many hours and minutes and pays you accordingly?
Well the manual entry aint unnecessary then. Its to cover you from when your shift starts to when it ends.
If they see that as “unnecessary” then its time to find a new employer
ezydriver:
All this in the name of ‘efficiency’. Somehow I suspect they’re minute pinching, as we’re paid off our tachos.
I’m of the opinion this is legally wrong because once I enter the office at the start of my shift (bang on the particular hour), I’m on duty, waiting for keys and paperwork, and walking to my vehicle, none of which I’m doing for love, all of which I’m doing to earn money under the instruction of my employer. I’m always visualising what Mr. VOSA would say about the things I’m often asked to do should I be stopped at the roadside, and my tacho/vehicle inspected.
I’ve politely told them I shall continue entering manual entries, and my manager, weirdly enough, sided with me but is simply trying to implement the order from above
What’s your opinion on this?
If they pay from the tacho, then ■■■■■■■■ to them. Manual entry all the way. Like you say, you’re on duty as soon as you walk through the door, if they haven’t got a lorry or load for you then it’s their problem, you’re not there to sit on your arse unpaid.
Does sound like your boss has a little bit of backbone left.
Thanks all. The consensus through this thread is encouraging and helpful.
Just to clarify:
We HAVE been told to do a manual entry if waiting for a lorry.
If we haven’t waited and our lorry is there, we’ve been told NOT to do manual entries for those couple of minutes at the beginning and end of shifts walking to and from the office and lorry.
We’re paid according to the hours and minutes on our tachos - they act as clock machines. So from now on, if I don’t do manual entries and it goes in at 18:05, and I pull it out at 06:12, I’ll be paid for 12hrs and 7 minutes, even though my shift is actually 18:00-06:15, 12hrs and 15 minutes, thus losing 8 minutes pay.
I’m not ready to jump ship yet, as in most other ways I’m happy and the job suits.
ezydriver:
We’re paid according to the hours and minutes on our tachos - they act as clock machines. So from now on, if I don’t do manual entries and it goes in at 18:05, and I pull it out at 06:12, I’ll be paid for 12hrs and 7 minutes, even though my shift is actually 18:00-06:15, 12hrs and 15 minutes, thus losing 8 minutes pay.
Even if you are monitored it’s not hard to find ten minutes or so during the shift to make up for the lost time.
ezydriver:
We’re paid according to the hours and minutes on our tachos - they act as clock machines. So from now on, if I don’t do manual entries and it goes in at 18:05, and I pull it out at 06:12, I’ll be paid for 12hrs and 7 minutes, even though my shift is actually 18:00-06:15, 12hrs and 15 minutes, thus losing 8 minutes pay.
Even if you are monitored it’s not hard to find ten minutes or so during the shift to make up for the lost time.
But that would be cutting off your nose to spite your face - making yourself stay at work for an extra hour every week…
In fairness, I don’t do manual entries. As far as I’m concerned, collecting the keys and the paperwork from the office, walking over to the truck and putting my stuff in it isn’t tachograph recordable. We never used to do it in the days of waxed paper discs. Tachograph recording starts when you plonk your ■■■■ onto the driver’s seat.
ezydriver:
Thanks all. The consensus through this thread is encouraging and helpful.
Just to clarify:
We HAVE been told to do a manual entry if waiting for a lorry.
If we haven’t waited and our lorry is there, we’ve been told NOT to do manual entries for those couple of minutes at the beginning and end of shifts walking to and from the office and lorry.
We’re paid according to the hours and minutes on our tachos - they act as clock machines. So from now on, if I don’t do manual entries and it goes in at 18:05, and I pull it out at 06:12, I’ll be paid for 12hrs and 7 minutes, even though my shift is actually 18:00-06:15, 12hrs and 15 minutes, thus losing 8 minutes pay.
I’m not ready to jump ship yet, as in most other ways I’m happy and the job suits.
I have been told the same in the past in my yard and have taken no notice. You know the old routine… “yes sir, yes sir”, then carry on as normal.
Truth be told I don’t think they like encouraging drivers to do regular manual entries because so many manage to ■■■■■■■■ them up & then the depot ends up with the dreaded red flags against it’s name for infringements, making the office look bad. Some drivers in our yard still sweat at the thought of manual entries so actually present themselves in the office early for paperwork, as so they can insert their card bang on their start time… ■■■■ that.
Like you said, they pay us off the card and they are hardly going to discipline you for keeping accurate records. Just carry on. Once upon a time we were paid in 15 minute blocks so it didn’t matter pay wise, when they changed it to be by the minute that moved the goalposts so I make sure every single minute on duty is recorded, even adding time on the next day for the time it took to hand in my paperwork the previous day.
Paid by hours and minutes on the tacho? Manual entry from the time the shift officially starts.
This can work two ways though…
My shift starts at 10:30 a.m. If, for example, I go and briefly look at my manifest for the day, at 10:15, and get clocked doing it, I then have to adjust all my tacho timings accordingly. First WTD break at just before 16:15 instead of the usual JUST before 16:30.
So it’s “Hands off” until 10:30 because I don’t start getting paid until 10:30.
but is simply trying to implement the order from above