I worked for them for a week, my last shift having been on 17.09, they haven’t paid me anything and yes, they do have my bank details.
I called them today to inquire about my pay, they said there’s still “an ongoing investigation” regarding a DVSA stop that day (17.09). They stopped me because I had forgotten to raise my tail-lift thus my lights were covered by it, a prohibition was issued - I raised the tail-lift and fixed the problem, admitted responsibility and paid my fine on the spot so the prohibition was lifted and I was allowed to go with “no further consequences for you or your employer”, as the DVSA man assured me. Upon my return to the customer’s yard I submitted all the paperwork the DVSA issued in regards to the incident, I only kept the fine receipt and the “Fixed penalty notice” which were issued to me personally. I got (informally) sacked later that day.
During the conversation with the agency today they said they had to pay back the money the client spent on my “training” (which consisted of me going out with of their full-time drivers for a full shift) + other expenses (“our company got fined” is what she said) which strongly implied they will be looking to claim back part or all of the money they allegedly lost; “we had major problems with the client because of what happened” she added which further implied I might be held liable for this whole mess.
In the end the person from the agency told me to call tomorrow to speak with someone from their accountancy. I have received a pay slip 2 weeks ago but the hours are all wrong (a full day is missing from my 1st week, as well as the Monday following week which was the 17th September- my final day for which I should’ve got a 2nd pay slip which I haven’t.
Can they legally withhold any money and if they do, am I entitled to see evidence for any damage/liability caused? If they refuse to pay tomorrow or only pay a part of what they owe me, should I get a lawyer or will the acas do?
PAYE or Ltd? Not that is makes a huge amount of difference.
They will have to pay you. They might try and weasel out of it for a bit.
Contact ACAS if PAYE - then email manager/owner of agency (depending on how big it is) and ask if you were working directly for them or the haulier as ACAS have asked you to confirm this with respect to the stoppage of wages.
If Ltd - write a short letter asking for payment in 7/14 days or action will be taken to recover the unpaid invoice using the small claims court.
Also make sure you write a review on their google listing, and facebook page warning other drivers about their conduct. They hate this. If you want me to join in let us know the name of the agency and I’ll happily leave them a review. I’m sure others will oblige.
Any costs they or the client incur is tough ■■■■■■■ and I can guarantee that the agency will have absolutely watertight terms of business which say they’re not liable for any costs or losses that arise from your actions. They cannot legally withhold money if you’re PAYE and they cannot make any deductions without your consent. If they’re claiming you have to I would look at your contract of employment with them and find if it says you can be and if it doesn’t ask them to point out anywhere with your signature on where it says they can and you agreed to it.
If you’re self employed it depends entirely on your terms of business you got them to sign when you joined the agency as to whether they’re liable or not and if you didn’t have any terms of business that stated you were not liable for any costs or losses they could charge you for them.
You can’t get sacked from an agency client because you don’t work for them, you work for the agency.
If they refuse to pay sod ACAS and the lawyer, send them an invoice for what you’re owed and giving them 7 days to pay and if they don’t then file a claim online at moneyclaim.gov.uk.
Conor:
Any costs they or the client incur is tough ■■■■■■■ and I can guarantee that the agency will have absolutely watertight terms of business which say they’re not liable for any costs or losses that arise from your actions. They cannot legally withhold money if you’re PAYE and they cannot make any deductions without your consent. If they’re claiming you have to I would look at your contract of employment with them and find if it says you can be and if it doesn’t ask them to point out anywhere with your signature on where it says they can and you agreed to it.
I’m not an LTD. I never signed any contract as they didn’t send me anything, in fact the only contact with the agency I’ve had has been over the phone and via email (they asked me to send them my scanned licence/CPC/digi card). The pay rates they texted me after my 1st day at work, I didn’t want to ask before that because I hadn’t passed the assessment drive with the client and I knew (know) a guy who works for the same agency/client so I had a good idea about the pay;
Conor:
You can’t get sacked from an agency client because you don’t work for them, you work for the agency.
Like I said, it was all very “informal” - following the monday (day of “incident”) I received a txt from the agency that my shift for tomorrow (tuesday 2a.m.) was cancelled, “will call tomorrow to explain”, but never called so I went in on Wednesday (as I had a full week schedule) but the client sent me away “your shifts for the rest of the week have been cancelled due to the tail lift issue”. I tried calling the agency the next morning and the day after but they ignored my calls (didn’t pick up the phone) and didn’t call me back so I went with another agency and that was the end of it (or so I thought)
yourhavingalarf:
Work out…
What you are owed since you’ve been working for them. Ask for that amount in full.
When they refuse (which they will) tell them you are going to start through the courts immediately and then proceed down that route.
They’re lying to you about everything.
Find another agency pronto.
These kind of parasites make my blood boil!
How can I prove the exact amount? The way it worked was (this is what I was told by other drivers who worked for the same client) that they had different pre-calculated routes with a certain number of hours allocated to each route - so if you took longer to complete the route you’d still get paid the original number of hours that the company planners deemed enough for the particular run to be completed, unless you could prove you were delayed by traffic/accidents in which case you might get paid for all the hours. I have my personal log-book detailing start/finish times, where I went and what I did but I don’t suppose it would hold up well in court? That and my driver’s card, I have no copies of timesheets (I used to sign in and out into a time sheet at the client’s transport office)
Tell the agency that you’re taking them to court for non payment.
Then explain on your court application the aproximate amount you think you’re owed and the reason why it’s approximate. Then let the wheels of justice turn.
Working for such vague rates with all the caveats they have in place is nothing short of robbery. Always get the rate set in writing for what ever you’re doing. I wouldn’t go near a job that paid in the manner you’ve just described.
You have said that you are not ‘limited’ but have not answered whether you were acting as a ‘self employed’ driver. This is a very Dodgy set up from day one if these are the terms for a PAYE employee. This should have set alarm bells ringing. The job takes as long as it takes. However the haulier can make these conditions with a ‘risk taker’ so an Owner Driver, a Limited Company or a self employed supplier of labour. The Agency falls into that category, but a PAYE employee of the haulier or the Agency does not.
The next time you’re in a truck, do printouts for the days you worked as it’ll have the times you started and finished at least in each unit.
Since tachos have to be accurate, those times should be admissable in court esp for small claims and it’ll give the reg numbers of the trucks you were in.
I would copy them and send those to the agency as those are the min times you’re claiming for and they have 7 days to pay it into your bank else you will start a claim without further reference to them.
Investigation - no damage was caused thus they have no claim against you. They have nothing in writing thus have no claim and if the client is peed off, that’s between them and the agency not you. Not your problem.
Wages wrong - send them the copy of the tacho and tell them they have 2 days to get the right amount into your account or you’re taking them to small claims.
As long as you are PAYE they are just being a bunch of aholes and trying everything they can to keep the money. If they sent you pay slips then it shows you are under the agency books so they cant claim they dont know you.
Whatever you do, send the claim in as its surprising how many people pay up when they get the notification and realise you’re serious! Plus they have to pay the court fee even if they settle.
cav551:
You have said that you are not ‘limited’ but have not answered whether you were acting as a ‘self employed’ driver. This is a very Dodgy set up from day one if these are the terms for a PAYE employee. This should have set alarm bells ringing. The job takes as long as it takes. However the haulier can make these conditions with a ‘risk taker’ so an Owner Driver, a Limited Company or a self employed supplier of labour. The Agency falls into that category, but a PAYE employee of the haulier or the Agency does not.
I checked my tax account (on gov.uk) and they have indeed paid in my PAYE tax and the NIC (there’s also a “employer NIC” on my payslip) which suggests I was employed as a PAYE driver for the agency. Btw the payslip I received was from a company with a different name than that of the agency which might further muddy things up. I checked the gov’t LTD register, the directors of the 2 companies appear to me to be husband and wife.
Other than that I have to admit, I had no contract or terms of employment presented to me. I knew (know) a guy who works (still) for the agency as a driver who told me at the time they were OK, which is why I went with them on good faith.
sammym:
Also make sure you write a review on their google listing, and facebook page warning other drivers about their conduct. They hate this. If you want me to join in let us know the name of the agency and I’ll happily leave them a review. I’m sure others will oblige.
Lol, they already have a 1.6/5 stars rating on google. I feel like a proper idiot for just taking my friend’s word for them, the excitement of getting my first trucking job must have clouded my judgement at the time.
I hope it doesn’t come to this. I just finished reading 20 of the 28 pages of “guidance” on how to file a claim and my head is spinning. Turns out I have to contact them first (in writing) then wait for their response (or lack of), before I can even begin a claim. Thanks for the link, though. I’ll definitely make use of it if all else fails.
ETS:
I checked my tax account (on gov.uk) and they have indeed paid in my PAYE tax and the NIC (there’s also a “employer NIC” on my payslip) which suggests I was employed as a PAYE driver for the agency. Btw the payslip I received was from a company with a different name than that of the agency which might further muddy things up.
So you may have been working for them via an umbrella company? You need to find out exactly how you were employed and go from there.
Conor:
So you may have been working for them via an umbrella company? You need to find out exactly how you were employed and go from there.
Does it matter, though? I contacted/was contacted back by a recruitment agency calling themselves “■■■”, once inside the client’s premises I identified myself as “Noob driver from ■■■ agency”, I signed on the client’s timesheet as “Noob driver” from “■■■” agency. Which company the agency task with paying me shouldn’t matter as long as they, the “■■■” agency have obtained a copy/proof for the payment made and any claims I have, I would think, should be directed towards agency “■■■” rather than their accountant sub-company or whatever it is that paid my PAYE/NIC.
ETS:
I checked my tax account (on gov.uk) and they have indeed paid in my PAYE tax and the NIC (there’s also a “employer NIC” on my payslip) which suggests I was employed as a PAYE driver for the agency. Btw the payslip I received was from a company with a different name than that of the agency which might further muddy things up.
So you may have been working for them via an umbrella company? You need to find out exactly how you were employed and go from there.
If he didn’t know he was umbrella it’s fraud.
I hate agencies who try this sort of stuff.
You are either a contractor (me) or employed. There is never any doubt. If there is it’s fraud and it’s disgusting.
ETS:
Anyone had a similar issue with agency/employer?
I worked for them for a week, my last shift having been on 17.09, they haven’t paid me anything and yes, they do have my bank details.
I called them today to inquire about my pay, they said there’s still “an ongoing investigation” regarding a DVSA stop that day (17.09). They stopped me because I had forgotten to raise my tail-lift thus my lights were covered by it, a prohibition was issued - I raised the tail-lift and fixed the problem, admitted responsibility and paid my fine on the spot so the prohibition was lifted and I was allowed to go with “no further consequences for you or your employer”, as the DVSA man assured me. Upon my return to the customer’s yard I submitted all the paperwork the DVSA issued in regards to the incident, I only kept the fine receipt and the “Fixed penalty notice” which were issued to me personally. I got (informally) sacked later that day.
During the conversation with the agency today they said they had to pay back the money the client spent on my “training” (which consisted of me going out with of their full-time drivers for a full shift) + other expenses (“our company got fined” is what she said) which strongly implied they will be looking to claim back part or all of the money they allegedly lost; “we had major problems with the client because of what happened” she added which further implied I might be held liable for this whole mess.
In the end the person from the agency told me to call tomorrow to speak with someone from their accountancy. I have received a pay slip 2 weeks ago but the hours are all wrong (a full day is missing from my 1st week, as well as the Monday following week which was the 17th September- my final day for which I should’ve got a 2nd pay slip which I haven’t.
Can they legally withhold any money and if they do, am I entitled to see evidence for any damage/liability caused? If they refuse to pay tomorrow or only pay a part of what they owe me, should I get a lawyer or will the acas do?
If it is shown as a “deduction” - then you are supposed to “consent” to it.
If it is just “missing” - then the company are likely to be actually defrauding HMRC, and possibly committing insurance fraud as well, as it is likely they are trying to pretend you “never existed” on their books.
If you’ve done all the paperwork against you, paid the fine(s) etc. then the very least the dismissing company should do - is bloody well document any and all deductions made against your final pay rounds.
We don’t do ‘name and shame’ on TN, because things can get very complicated quite quickly.
Whatever info you seek is best done by PMs.
So a truck forum that is scared of sparing others from such nobsence and scared of alerting others to the truth of some of the low life in haulage .Grow a pair.
Pathetic .
Right, I called today stating my issue all over again - as I was advised yesterday, only to be told by a different person (not the one I spoke to y’day) that their accountant doesn’t work Thursdays; would I want to give them a call Monday?
Obviously they’re playing dumb, so I won’t waste any more time - I’ll go ahead and state my claim to them in writing via post and see where that goes.
Whatever info you seek is best done by PMs. 