Victims of think accounting

Morning chaps
Anybody that has become a victim of think new wave igloo accounting or anything else they call themselves can email me on rontierney38@aol.com
As i have a investigating journalist that has come onboard and wants to hear some more stories.i myself have contact within the media the net is closing in
Thanks in advance

I had 7 days as self employed with themin 2014. Got a late Self assessment penalty for 2015/2016 yesterday. Spoke to HMRC and its all cleared up.

You need to speak to alot of Transline drivers. I know quite a few got huge bills last year.

Igloo is in liquidation is it not? You should make sure agencies are slaughtered just as much. Ive been told by 3 agencies that they dont accept PAYE only Self Employed. Some really do force it on you.

Think Accounting, Igloo Accounting, New Wave Accounting where all linked by the same set of sharks. They played cat and mouse with HMRC regarding the MSC Legislation. Once HMRC got a little too close to them they formed their next company.The Drivers that used their services were completely in the dark regarding MSC Legislation. Basically because the sharks wouldn’t play by the rules this in turn roped the Drivers into the tangle because HMRC then maintained that the sharks were “involved” in the said Drivers company and so therefore HMRC landed the Driver with large NI bills and very much smaller Income tax bills because HMRC deemed them to be employees of their company therefore billing them for 2 lots of NI. Of course HMRC let all of this run for the best part of 3 years before informing the Drivers of the sharks wrong doings, even though HMRC were aware of the sharks operations back in May 2011.

As regards the sharks, Lee W last known living in a penthouse in Canary Wharf driving an Aston Martin, Simone W C driving a Lamborghini…Come on HMRC target the sharks not the unsuspecting, trusting, hard working Driver

As I have posted many times, anyone landed with a large bill from HMRC, should, in my opinion appeal it. HMRC like to bully people into paying bills without a fight. Go through HMRCs appeal, this will get you nowhere regarding HMRC but it is the first step on the ladder and has to be done. You will then have the right to go to Tribunal, (HMRC dont like this because they pay for it). The first test case decision for MSC is being appealed by the Apellents, the Appellents lost the first case but that case did not involve Think Accounting, it concerned a company that operateted differently to Think Accounting.

Civil law is completely different to criminal law in that it is constantly evolving/changing as different cases are heard. If enough people appeal then the Tribunal will see the way in which Think Accounting and HMRC have acted in trapping Drivers into this very unfair piece of legislation.

Victims?..
I don’t think anyone was a victim as they willingly used, (albeit blindly) the services of said companies in a get rich scheme. Where they made mistakes was being ignorant, or not wanting to know the details of the scheme they’d enrolled. This is where they where taken advantage of…

peirre:
Victims?..
I don’t think anyone was a victim as they willingly used, (albeit blindly) the services of said companies in a get rich scheme. Where they made mistakes was being ignorant, or not wanting to know the details of the scheme they’d enrolled. This is where they where taken advantage of…

I think you will find that when a company operates a fiddle then you may find that the people that used that said company are victims, or am I missing something?

robbo99.:

peirre:
Victims?..
I don’t think anyone was a victim as they willingly used, (albeit blindly) the services of said companies in a get rich scheme. Where they made mistakes was being ignorant, or not wanting to know the details of the scheme they’d enrolled. This is where they where taken advantage of…

I think you will find that when a company acts in a corrupt way then you may find that the people that used that said company are victims, or am I missing something?

How was it a get rich scheme? A Driver employing the services of a one man band Accountant would have paid the same tax/ni that the Drivers using Think were paying.

robbo99.:

peirre:
Victims?..
I don’t think anyone was a victim as they willingly used, (albeit blindly) the services of said companies in a get rich scheme. Where they made mistakes was being ignorant, or not wanting to know the details of the scheme they’d enrolled. This is where they where taken advantage of…

I think you will find that when a company acts in a corrupt way then you may find that the people that used that said company are victims, or am I missing something?

Truck drivers trying to act like big businessmen and avoid tax, who is going to shed tears if HMRC later catch up with them.

del trotter:

robbo99.:

peirre:
Victims?..
I don’t think anyone was a victim as they willingly used, (albeit blindly) the services of said companies in a get rich scheme. Where they made mistakes was being ignorant, or not wanting to know the details of the scheme they’d enrolled. This is where they where taken advantage of…

I think you will find that when a company acts in a corrupt way then you may find that the people that used that said company are victims, or am I missing something?

Truck drivers trying to act like big businessmen and avoid tax, who is going to shed tears if HMRC later catch up with them.

Your obviously an expert on MSC Legislation then?

robbo99.:
Your obviously an expert on MSC Legislation then?

Clearly the victims where not.
But they where quick to jump on the bandwagon :unamused:

peirre:

robbo99.:
Your obviously an expert on MSC Legislation then?

Clearly the victims where not.
But they where quick to jump on the bandwagon :unamused:

Bandwagon, please elaborate?

The MSC Legislation was introduced in 2007. Up until last year it had never even been tested via the Tax Tribunals by HMRC, therefore it is fair to say that your average Joe had never even heard of it. Think Accounting were very aware of it and continued to cheat punters even after being interviewed by HMRC, Counter Avoidance, on numerous occasions regarding their compliance position.

As stated when HMRC got close to Think Accounting they then opened their next company and so on. I would think that these facts would spell out that Think were a bunch of sharks, to most people.

Add to this HMRC knowing of Thinks breaches of MSC in late 2011, they waited 3 years to inform Drivers that Think were guilty so therefore the Drivers were too. Funny by then there was a nice pot of money for HMRC to go after.

I think what peirre is getting at is the drivers were happy getting a £1 extra an hour and try and claim everything as expenses whilst us ‘mugs’ were on PAYE.

robbo99.:
As stated when HMRC got close to Think Accounting they then opened their next company and so on.

Whilst I agree…

That phoenixing companies is sharp practice and I don’t condone what Think Accounting did. Morphing from one company to another isn’t breaking any laws. Directors and company secretary’s swapping positions and name changing the company will continue until there is legislation to stop it.

Many drivers just took the bait of more money for less work never giving a thought to how a third party could take it’s slice of the pie and leave extra for the aforementioned driver.

I’m not an accountant but, to me at the time it was obvious that the whole brolly scheme thing was ■■■■■■■■ from the start. I persuaded several drivers to avoid it.

yourhavingalarf:

robbo99.:
As stated when HMRC got close to Think Accounting they then opened their next company and so on.

Whilst I agree…

That phoenixing companies is sharp practice and I don’t condone what Think Accounting did. Morphing from one company to another isn’t breaking any laws. Directors and company secretary’s swapping positions and name changing the company will continue until there is legislation to stop it.

Many drivers just took the bait of more money for less work never giving a thought to how a third party could take it’s slice of the pie and leave extra for the aforementioned driver.

I’m not an accountant but, to me at the time it was obvious that the whole brolly scheme thing was ■■■■■■■■ from the start. I persuaded several drivers to avoid it.

Fully agree with you, but Think knew about MSC and continued to operate, ripping off customers. The crucial part is that the Driver was only dragged into the mess because Think were breaching the rules, HMRC knew this and let it run and run and run.
The setting up of a Ltd Company is different to an Umbrella Scheme.

Although I wasn’t involved, I thought that many agencies virtually forced drivers to sign up with them instead of going PAYE, because it allowed the agency to opt out of the new agency worker regulations by stating that the driver weren’t employees, but self employed.

muckles:
Although I wasn’t involved, I thought that many agencies virtually forced drivers to sign up with them instead of going PAYE, because it allowed the agency to opt out of the new agency worker regulations by stating that the driver weren’t employees, but self employed.

Some Agencies do exactly that, it also cuts down on their overheads, ie not having to process PAYE but when it all goes belly up HMRC go for the little man first. The MSC allows for a joint and several collection of monies, ie they want their money and they will get their money from whoever, the MSC Legislation is to do with the status of the Drivers Co, whether it be a stand alone Ltd co or deemed that the owner is employed by his own firm, thus paying 2 lots of Ni and slightly more income tax, its as simple as that yet takes HMRC years to come up with a decision

mrginge:
I think what peirre is getting at is the drivers were happy getting a £1 extra an hour and try and claim everything as expenses whilst us ‘mugs’ were on PAYE.

Maybe he is.

The expenses claimed were set down by HMRC and any Accountant would claim the same amounts.

The extra £1 is as far as I know to make up for lack of holiday pay.

Even holiday pay and Ltd working is a grey area due to a recent court ruling that Ltd Co owners working for another company are entitled to full holiday pay from that company.

Quote victims of think accounting
Vat was not paid nor was corperation tax
By think accounting on behalf of ltd companies
Only got to find out when the bill came through the door… i had to pay corperation tax again… something that think had said they had done same with vat…think thats fraud in my book

Im also led to believe that the police are now involved

And the media are knocking on the door
So ill stand by the statement VICTIMS

Jackron:
Quote victims of think accounting
Vat was not paid nor was corperation tax
By think accounting on behalf of ltd companies
Only got to find out when the bill came through the door… i had to pay corperation tax again… something that think had said they had done same with vat…think thats fraud in my book

Im also led to believe that the police are now involved

And the media are knocking on the door
So ill stand by the statement VICTIMS

What happened to personal responsibility, your corporation tax but you asked your accountant to pay it for you, no wonder some people get mugged off they are to easy.

im a so called victim of think accounting or more of an unwitting victim…im slowly paying hmrc as my bill wasnt as big as some of the lads i worked with but i had it so i guess i must pay it but i certainly didnt go into it thinking i was “dodging tax”

i was made redundant from a 16yr job. as part of the redundancy talks our union at the time got some agencys together and held a night to "help " the 80 or so drivers out . at these meetings every agency there pushed the think accounting way as being the future and oh how good it is you must do it. I / We as drivers went into it blindly under all this “advise” we were given. i had no idea about all the ins and outs of what was invloved. i just wanted to work and pay the bills and as this was “recommended” thats what most of us did very naievely as it turned out. we certainly didnt set out to dodge tax etc. Not all people are like that maybe some but not all.

i understand now how it works and all a bit late am paying it back as said before mine is a pretty small ammount compared to some of the lads i worked with who are in it for over 20 grand.