I have often seen agencies referred to as leeches in many threads.
As I see it, for example, an agency will provide a driver to a company for £20 hour. From that the driver gets £11 hour and the rest goes to profit etc.
My question is, if you present yourself as a self employed / Ltd, to a company who requires a driver and miss out the agency, can you negotiate a better hourly rate for yourself rather than the agency making the money. So in the above example the company are being charged £20 by the agency, as a self employed, I could charge £15 saving the company £5 from the agency cost.
I’m sure this topic has been discussed already but despite having a good look round, I didn’t come across anything specific.
I understand also that it can be a pain adhering to all the requirements under self employed, but I would just like to know in this thread whether the above is achievable and whether some of you may already be doing this?
Cutting out the middleman will allow you and your prospective client to save/make more money but, there’s a great deal more to it than that.
Don’t bother with self-employed, go Ltd company or forget about the whole thing. Sort out proper liability insurance, draw up contracts that you and your customers can agree to and adhere to. Agree in writing payment terms and the ramifications of non-payment. Work out cover for yourself if you can’t do the shift at short notice. Find yourself a really good accountant, business bank account and understanding girlfriend/wife. Worry about the business far more than you ever thought you would.
I’m looking into this myself just now. Looking at going Ltd and getting g rid of all this umbrella rubbish. First thing I’m looking for is an accountant, I’m not completely sure how I’d know a good one from a bad one. There’s some online that “specialise” in drivers but not sure what makes them so different from umbrella. I’m pretty sure once I get that done I’ll be OK.
I’m going to approach him where I am at some point to see if that’s a feasible option, cutting out the agency would make me sleep so much better
No one will take you seriously. Going Ltd shows some sort of commitment on your part, a more professional attitude than a bloke that just turns up and keeps his reciepts in a shoe box. Anyone can turn up and toss a card across the counter saying I’ll drive your lorries for you but, someone showing up with a companies house listing, full accountabilty and proper banking procedures etc will be considered a better prospect.
If you go Ltd, any problems / damage is your companies liability via your insurance, or if less than you excess, your companies bank account.
If sole trader, you are personally liable, not your Ltd. company. So as an extreme example, go and write off one of your customers shiny new lorries and they could have your house off you.
I hear what your saying, my own image and reliability will be more important than my status as a sole or LTD I would think. I’m looking at this from the perspective of earning myself the most money and not putting a couple of quid an hour in someone else’s pocket whilst I’m at the wheel.
London, this was in response to youravinalaarf who I was chatting with, yes I understand your point about liabilities.
Its a little confusing, especially when the RHA don’t appear to know what they’re talking about!!
One little piece of advice from an agency promising a pound an hour more and off you go.
Hahaha, now that’s the kind of cynicism I find when I look in the mirror. I’m getting all the pieces if this jigsaw together first before I put it together. Expense claims have changed recently, there’s something happening with the VAT rate soon, I want to make sure I understand these things
Hades3000:
I have often seen agencies referred to as leeches in many threads.
As I see it, for example, an agency will provide a driver to a company for £20 hour. From that the driver gets £11 hour and the rest goes to profit etc.
Including the drivers holiday pay…
So in the above example the company are being charged £20 by the agency, as a self employed, I could charge £15 saving the company £5 from the agency cost.
And make yourself worse off than the driver on PAYE on £11/hr as well as losing rights like the right to even be paid on time or at all.
Yes you can do it but usually it requires you to have a decent reputation which is usually gained by doing agency work for the companies you approach.
I’m a limited company driver now working directly with a company rather then through an agency. I get more than their PAYE full timers get and they pay less out, its a win win. Its a company I know and trust and they have come to know me and trust me very well too. In fact we get on so well they are helping me put my own wagon on the road in the near future.
If you have plans to be more than just a driver I really would suggest it. If you are perfectly happy just going to work and collecting a paycheck the stay PAYE.
Don’t ever do it as a Sole Trader or Partnership because of the above Liabiltiy issues. If I wreck a brand new Merc (85k) pulling a brand new trailer (25-30k) with a full load of playstations in the back (585k ish) then my public liability insurance should pick up the cost, (I am covered for upto 5mil per claim). If not then the company is liable for the rest but I am not. If I was sole trader or a partnership there would be no legal distinction between me and my business which would mean any liability of my business is also my own.
Shows its doable if done properly. I’m not becoming a hgv driver to work for someone else, the whole intention is to learn and eventually get one truck operating but obviously this will be a couple of years away if not more, but it certainly looks as tho setting up a Ltd is the way to go. That’s fantastic they trust you enough to help you with getting your own truck up and running, best of luck with that.
Can I just ask, as a Ltd company, the services you offer are simply you and your reliability and qualifications as a driver?
Londontrucker123:
Don’t go sole trader, stay away from this option.
If you go Ltd, any problems / damage is your companies liability via your insurance, or if less than you excess, your companies bank account.
If sole trader, you are personally liable, not your Ltd. company. So as an extreme example, go and write off one of your customers shiny new lorries and they could have your house off you.
Hades3000:
I have often seen agencies referred to as leeches in many threads.
As I see it, for example, an agency will provide a driver to a company for £20 hour. From that the driver gets £11 hour and the rest goes to profit etc.
My question is, if you present yourself as a self employed / Ltd, to a company who requires a driver and miss out the agency, can you negotiate a better hourly rate for yourself rather than the agency making the money. So in the above example the company are being charged £20 by the agency, as a self employed, I could charge £15 saving the company £5 from the agency cost.
Thanks in advance
I am not convinced the leeches would get that kind of money (£20ph) from the company requesting a driver. Typically the agency will take approx. 15%-20% on top of what they are paying a ltd company driver and likely 20%-25% to a PAYE driver…the upside for us (ltd company or PAYE) is that we get our money within 7 days whilst the agency will get their money especially from their corporate customers anything up to 60 days and that is if their invoice hits the correct payment cycle.
I have one haulier company (25+ fleet) I deal direct with and they kindly pay me the following Friday so cant complain…
nsmith1180:
Don’t ever do it as a Sole Trader or Partnership because of the above Liabiltiy issues. If I wreck a brand new Merc (85k) pulling a brand new trailer (25-30k) with a full load of playstations in the back (585k ish) then my public liability insurance should pick up the cost, (I am covered for upto 5mil per claim). If not then the company is liable for the rest but I am not. If I was sole trader or a partnership there would be no legal distinction between me and my business which would mean any liability of my business is also my own.
I have a question…surely when I drive for through an agency or direct to a company I am insured through their insurance and not liable for anything. Now if I was a owner driver then I would assume would need liabilities insurance…
As above advice , do not be a sole trader as its far too risky, its very easy to set up a Ltd company in the UK, my missus runs one (car sales), a good accountant needed be expensive, just make sure you have at least £5M liability cover. My own company in Spain A.G European S.L is also a ltd company well…the Spanish equivalent being Sociedad Limitada (S.L) again easy to do only you need a minimum of 3005euros in a buisness account at start up. There are plenty of ins companies out there offering liability cover but read well the T@C’s some are far better than others…
Londontrucker123:
Don’t go sole trader, stay away from this option.
If you go Ltd, any problems / damage is your companies liability via your insurance, or if less than you excess, your companies bank account.
If sole trader, you are personally liable, not your Ltd. company. So as an extreme example, go and write off one of your customers shiny new lorries and they could have your house off you.
