So I’ve heard the 48 hour figure bounced around for ages, but assumed it was something that could be opted out of. It turns out I assumed wrong, as in all official documentation I can find states clearly ‘NO OPT OUT’.
I’ve never worked less than 50 hours, and regularly exceed 60 hours, and this has been the norm at every haulier I’ve worked for. It’s VERY rare for me to work less than 12 hours per day, and I work five days a week, for months on end, and from what I can gather this is normal for me and all the other drivers too.
As per the title, am I missing something or is this widespread practice blatant flounting of the law on a huge scale?
think its rather maximum then average.
you can extend it to 60 hour,but musst pay back every hour you made over 48 hour after 17 weeks or 26 weeks unpaidbut not in a company facility.
so standing over the weekend with a lorry in italy doesnt count.
you need to have real off,as you pay back your time and not company time. and waiting for a retourn load isnt off.
Many drivers need to be doing over a 48hr week with what the job pays, And it should be upto the driver if he/she wants to work 60/70hrs each week, Some jobs like euro work you couldn’t only do 48hrs per week, So stick your WTD /POA bs were the sun don’t shine for me until the min wage becomes a real in line with inflation living wage of +10 per hour , thought not
Also i have never worked to a max of 48hrs or used POA either, or observed the WTD nonsense
Most hauliers and drivers just want to make money. Drivers hours are one thing, but the WTD is a complete joke that lots of companies basically just ignore. I’m not sure it is even enforced and am certainly not aware of any company being busted for ignoring it, unless someone knows differently.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Most hauliers and drivers just want to make money. Drivers hours are one thing, but the WTD is a complete joke that lots of companies basically just ignore. I’m not sure it is even enforced and am certainly not aware of any company being busted for ignoring it, unless someone knows differently.
im on shift around 60 hours a week,but working time does not include breaks or poas. so 5 45 minute breaks or more if you need 2 45s can be deducted from my shift time. then when im on a bay being tipped for an hour i put it on poa,this poa is deducted from working time. if i go into work and have to wait an hour for a job or a truck then thats poa aswell which is deducted from working time so at the end of my 60 hour week i only do around 45 hours working time.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Most hauliers and drivers just want to make money. Drivers hours are one thing, but the WTD is a complete joke that lots of companies basically just ignore. I’m not sure it is even enforced and am certainly not aware of any company being busted for ignoring it, unless someone knows differently.
Yes I know differently - well - kind of
Plenty of companies in front of a TC have their lack of control over the WTD thrown at them along with their other little problems. Lack of compliance with the WTD is added to the pile of other ‘offences’ and ‘may’ increase any sanctions given. The TCs do want the WTD adhered to. So in a way some companies do find that it matters but you are right no companies I know of have actually been prosecuted.
A customer who recently applied to increase his O licence was called to a public inquiry and had to produce (amongst many other things) evidence of WTD control, working time records and proof of reference periods used. He struggled with this bit (had everything else). He has been given his O licence increase on the basis that an inspection of his WTD and Tacho records will be carried out in 3 months time.
So I would like to say that it does matter. It certainly helps if the company complies.
Now this is the way I view the WTD. Let’s say a driver does a 50 hour working week. Week after week going two hours over the 48 hour guideline. Four or six months down the line that driver has to take 3 to 5 days off (roughly) to compensate, which wouldn’t necessarily be paid for by their employer. The driver isn’t suddenly safer by having those days off and for some, all they will actually do is lose money and the haulier will have a truck standing idle meaning they cannot provide a service to their own customers. Not sure how that benefits anyone?
I was driving a tacho exempt vehicle earlier this year and some of their drivers were working 70 and 80 hour weeks with no records of any description kept.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Now this is the way I view the WTD. Let’s say a driver does a 50 hour working week. Week after week going two hours over the 48 hour guideline. Four or six months down the line that driver has to take 3 to 5 days off (roughly) to compensate, which wouldn’t necessarily be paid for by their employer. The driver isn’t suddenly safer by having those days off and for some, all they will actually do is lose money and the haulier will have a truck standing idle meaning they cannot provide a service to their own customers. Not sure how that benefits anyone?
I was driving a tacho exempt vehicle earlier this year and some of their drivers were working 70 and 80 hour weeks with no records of any description kept.
Only the first 4 weeks of holls count towards WTD so perhaps the non counted days can be used to bring down the average ?
So one of our " progressive " members in the EU has his latest brainwave. He ignores the real world and says lets make the maximum working week 48 hours for everyone. But some weeks the worker might need to work more than 48 hours. Your just being awkward now, but ok, we will make it an average of 48 hours over a fixed period of time, happy now ? We have just been told that lots of workers would like the chance to work more than 48 hours, and industry have told us they might as well shut up shop if this goes ahead. OK just to keep you happy they can opt out if they want…but not them lorry drivers, you’ve got to leave me and my new law something!
But lorry driving is the one job that’s always had to work long hours, that’s why we’ve always kept their hourly rate down, we still need them to put the hours in.
I wish you’d stop picking holes in my new law. Here’s what we’ll do. All the time lorry drivers spend at work but are not actually doing anything, won’t count as working hours OK ? We’ll call it POA. Let me see if I’ve got this straight, everyone can opt out if the want, except lorry drivers who can do 15 hours per day by using your POA idea?
Yes that’s right, happy now ? Well no, not really, the 48 HOUR thing is now totally point less. Should we not just scrap the whole idea ?
You’ve gone too far now, the EU does not have any pointless laws, and we never get it wrong…by the way, did I mention my latest idea to make it against the law to whistle in public places ?
Sorry lads just my whimsical take on the whole sorry mess
Regards. John.
Javiatrix:
So I’ve heard the 48 hour figure bounced around for ages, but assumed it was something that could be opted out of. It turns out I assumed wrong, as in all official documentation I can find states clearly ‘NO OPT OUT’.
I’ve never worked less than 50 hours, and regularly exceed 60 hours, and this has been the norm at every haulier I’ve worked for. It’s VERY rare for me to work less than 12 hours per day, and I work five days a week, for months on end, and from what I can gather this is normal for me and all the other drivers too.
As per the title, am I missing something or is this widespread practice blatant flounting of the law on a huge scale?
Cheers!
You’re missing the fact it does not include breaks or PoA in the 48hrs. Are you on driving or other work for 50 or more hours a week every week?
LIBERTY_GUY:
The driver isn’t suddenly safer by having those days off
You completely and utterly miss the entire point of the WTD. It has absolutely nothing to do with safety - that is the role of the EU Drivers Hours regulations. The WTD is to do entirely with the health and wellbeing of the worker.
Should have been 48hrs duty time a week, no PoA, no “averaging over the reference period.” I can never get my head around the fact so many truck drivers seem to actually WANT to work themselves into an early grave - “If I can’t do 70hrs a week then jobs no good” attitude.
LIBERTY_GUY:
The driver isn’t suddenly safer by having those days off
You completely and utterly miss the entire point of the WTD. It has absolutely nothing to do with safety - that is the role of the EU Drivers Hours regulations. The WTD is to do entirely with the health and wellbeing of the worker.
Having to potentially ‘stand down’ and lose money would be more likely to negatively affect my health and wellbeing.
Conor:
Should have been 48hrs duty time a week, no PoA, no “averaging over the reference period.” I can never get my head around the fact so many truck drivers seem to actually WANT to work themselves into an early grave - “If I can’t do 70hrs a week then jobs no good” attitude.
Driving has only ever been worthwhile if there is overtime available. It is the overtime that has bought me lots of niceties like my 4x4, my motorbike and my caravan. For some in a worse position, it is the overtime that keeps them out of poverty.
There are permanent jobs out there where a basic 40 hour week would bring you in less than £300 week. In an ideal world the rates would go up, but we all know that will never happen. Long hours and lorry driving are sadly inseparable if you want a half decent lifestyle.
Conor, you’re right. I’ve been lucky/unlucky enough to work in jobs where POA is the last thought on my mind and haven’t ever really utilised it. Am moving into class 1 gen haulage in the near future so I’ll bear that in mind.
It’s amazing how long I’ve gone without paying much consideration to it really!
