Travelling to work ‘is work’, European court rules
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34210002
If I’m reading this right, this only applies to people with no fixed workplace.
Maybe a bit of an issue for self employed/freelance/agency drivers though.
No doubt an “OPT OUT” will be negociated on our behalf by the goverment of the day
Notimetoulouse:
No doubt an “OPT OUT” will be negociated on our behalf by the goverment of the day
Very much this ^^^^^.
I don’t think this will affect HGV/PCV drivers at-all, travelling to take charge of a vehicle that’s not at the drivers home or usual operating base has been regarded as other work for years, other work of course counts towards working time for the RT(WT)R.
As far as agency or self employed drivers are concerned I’d say the operating base is the depot they’re employed to work at, so I don’t see that this will affect HGV/PCV drivers at-all.
tachograph:
I don’t think this will affect HGV/PCV drivers at-all, travelling to take charge of a vehicle that’s not at the drivers home or usual operating base has been regarded as other work for years, other work of course counts towards working time for the RT(WT)R.As far as agency or self employed drivers are concerned I’d say the operating base is the depot they’re employed to work at, so I don’t see that this will affect HGV/PCV drivers at-all.
I would agree with this. Should make no difference to the industry.
But now may be engeeners, builders, care workers increacy price for own job because must pay money.Every little help to increace GRoss domestic produkt.
Yes tachograph i agree, its mostly for outdoor workers such as builders and electricians, care workers, midwifes etc etc, but the wording does state anyone without a fixed office, as our trucks are our workplace, home, and office all rolled into one, maybe one day it will be clarified.
When i read the article the other day it did build my hopes up…then when i read further it stated the EU wanted all workforce to maintain a 48 hour week as laid down by EU regulations, but as we all know…it doesnt include truckers…never does does it .
truckyboy:
Yes tachograph i agree, its mostly for outdoor workers such as builders and electricians, care workers, midwifes etc etc, but the wording does state anyone without a fixed office, as our trucks are our workplace, home, and office all rolled into one, maybe one day it will be clarified.
When i read the article the other day it did build my hopes up…then when i read further it stated the EU wanted all workforce to maintain a 48 hour week as laid down by EU regulations, but as we all know…it doesnt include truckers…never does does it .
I think commuting time being work time for HGV and PSV drivers was clarified many years ago in a court case against a coach company who’s drivers were driving to various locations to pick up a coach and swap over with the other driver.
The coach company stated they hadn’t started working until they started driving the coach, the ruling stated unless they were picking up the coach from their regular place of work any time spent traveling to the vehicle whether from the companies base or the drivers home was considered working time as far as EU drivers hours were concerned.
I have been waiting for this thread to pop up 
This will not affect HGV or PSV drivers at all. Even if you are agency you will have a fixed place of employment on contract. This affects people like sales reps, mobile hair dressers, care workers and the like who can be phoned up and told to go to a first appointment on the fly. So one day they may go to a place for the first appointment only 5 miles from their home but the next day the first appointment maybe 30 miles away. Employers have only been paying from the first appointment to the last and not counting the home to first app. - last app. to home
Andrejs:
But now may be engeeners, builders, care workers increacy price for own job because must pay money.Every little help to increace GRoss domestic produkt.
Not necessarily, an employment lawyer on the radio stated that this ruling effected the EU WTD legislation about working an average 48 hour week, but the minimum wage is UK legislation and doesn’t include traveling to and from a place of work.
So basically you have to count those hours in the average 48 hour week, but you don’t have to pay for those hours. And of course in the UK you can ask your work force to opt out of the WTD, so then it would make no difference at all.
As the normal WTD can be opted out of in full then I suspect employers will ask prospective employees what they will do and take that into account before offering a position
Doesn’t this affect us as we are classed as mobile workers under WTD ?
senior50:
Doesn’t this affect us as we are classed as mobile workers under WTD ?
senior50:
Doesn’t this affect us as we are classed as mobile workers under WTD ?
No for a couple of reasons
- We are excluded from the WTD that this ruling comes under, as mobile workers we come under the RTD.
- Most truck drivers don’t “commute” to different locations, you go to the companies base to get your truck.
muckles:
2. Most truck drivers don’t “commute” to different locations, you go to the companies base to get your truck.
This is what may or may not affect me…
I am a fully employed relief driver, I drive (company vehicle which I keep permanently) from home to wherever I am required in the north west to basically pull them out of the mire at the drop of a hat and could travel 65 miles (example) from home, do a few hours and then be sent off somewhere else do maybe an ‘urgent’ drop for another branch or two then on home when done.
Would this not be classed under this crazy idea of theirs ?
Kaistar:
muckles:
2. Most truck drivers don’t “commute” to different locations, you go to the companies base to get your truck.This is what may or may not affect me…
I am a fully employed relief driver, I drive (company vehicle which I keep permanently) from home to wherever I am required in the north west to basically pull them out of the mire at the drop of a hat and could travel 65 miles (example) from home, do a few hours and then be sent off somewhere else do maybe an ‘urgent’ drop for another branch or two then on home when done.
Would this not be classed under this crazy idea of theirs ?
Depends how you are paid,
Do you get paid when you leave home or do you get paid when you arrive at your first “job” ?
Kaistar:
muckles:
2. Most truck drivers don’t “commute” to different locations, you go to the companies base to get your truck.This is what may or may not affect me…
I am a fully employed relief driver, I drive (company vehicle which I keep permanently) from home to wherever I am required in the north west to basically pull them out of the mire at the drop of a hat and could travel 65 miles (example) from home, do a few hours and then be sent off somewhere else do maybe an ‘urgent’ drop for another branch or two then on home when done.
By the sound of it you should already be counting your traveling time as other work as you come under this sections of the EU drivers hours regulations.
Travelling time
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based, but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.
Kaistar:
Would this not be classed under this crazy idea of theirs ?
Surely workers being expected to travel many miles to various jobs out of their working time is crazy?
Kaistar:
I am a fully employed relief driver, I drive (company vehicle which I keep permanently) from home to wherever I am required in the north west to basically pull them out of the mire at the drop of a hat and could travel 65 miles (example) from home, do a few hours and then be sent off somewhere else do maybe an ‘urgent’ drop for another branch or two then on home when done.
If when you get to where you’re sent you’re driving an HGV vehicle, then legally the travelling time should already be booked as other work under the drivers hours and tachograph regulations.
A company was done for a similar offence years ago, Criminal proceedings against Skills Motor Coaches Ltd
Sorry double post.