I have a C category licence, can I drive a coach with no passengers? (purely to deliver it from A to B)
I ask for two reasons. I was told when I got my C licence that I can drive anything rigid (bar a tank) and also because I know a lad who delivers coaches, goes on test drives and to the MOT station using his C+E licence
I have searched online for the answer but it’s not overly clear, most sites refer to having passengers
Provided no passengers then yes you can.
Cat D is for buses that are automatics. For drive manual coaches you need a cat C but to take passengers you also need a pcv license.
hillsofplumpton.co.uk/INF52.pdf
Buses that can be driven with a full category c license.
If you hold a full catergory C (LGV) driving license you can also drive large buses as long as you have held the license for at least 2 years and the vehicle is:
The-Snowman:
Provided no passengers then yes you can.
Generally no, you can’t drive a PCV using a Category C licence.
The old concession that Dazza1980 posted about, detailed on the now withdrawn INF52 leaflet, was withdrawn at the time the Third Driving Licence Directive was implemented in the UK on 19 January 2013, as the previous concession was not compliant with the new Directive. This is why you won’t find anything about the old concession on the driving licence part of gov.uk today.
However, the changes do not affect any drivers who enjoyed the concession at the time of the change, so any driver holding category C on a GB licence from or before 18 January 2011 can still drive PCVs under the rules outlined in INF52.
The old concession is so limited that there are probably very few drivers who knew about it. The number of drivers regularly using the concession was estimated to be very low at the time of its withdrawal.
The-Snowman:
Cat D is for buses that are automatics. For drive manual coaches you need a cat C but to take passengers you also need a pcv license.
Category D allows you to drive all buses and coaches. You never need category C to drive a bus or coach.
Automatic only entitlement is shown against a category in the normal way - with a 78 restriction code.
If you have D(78) entitlement, then you are limited to driving automatic PCVs.
Under the latest rules, the 78 automatic only restriction can be removed by exchanging your licence if you have or acquire manual entitlement for any one of B, BE, C, CE, C1, C1E, D, DE, D1 or D1E because you passed a test in a manual transmission vehicle and are not limited to automatic transmission vehicles for medical reasons. The majority of drivers hold manual B entitlement, so can remove the 78 restriction from all vocational categories held by exchanging their licence.
djw:
The-Snowman:
Provided no passengers then yes you can.Generally no, you can’t drive a PCV using a Category C licence.
The old concession that Dazza1980 posted about, detailed on the now withdrawn INF52 leaflet, was withdrawn at the time the Third Driving Licence Directive was implemented in the UK on 19 January 2013, as the previous concession was not compliant with the new Directive. This is why you won’t find anything about the old concession on the driving licence part of gov.uk today.
However, the changes do not affect any drivers who enjoyed the concession at the time of the change, so any driver holding category C on a GB licence from or before 18 January 2011 can still drive PCVs under the rules outlined in INF52.
The old concession is so limited that there are probably very few drivers who knew about it. The number of drivers regularly using the concession was estimated to be very low at the time of its withdrawal.
The-Snowman:
Cat D is for buses that are automatics. For drive manual coaches you need a cat C but to take passengers you also need a pcv license.
Category D allows you to drive all buses and coaches. You never need category C to drive a bus or coach.
Automatic only entitlement is shown against a category in the normal way - with a 78 restriction code.
If you have D(78) entitlement, then you are limited to driving automatic PCVs.
Under the latest rules, the 78 automatic only restriction can be removed by exchanging your licence if you have or acquire manual entitlement for any one of B, BE, C, CE, C1, C1E, D, DE, D1 or D1E because you passed a test in a manual transmission vehicle and are not limited to automatic transmission vehicles for medical reasons. The majority of drivers hold manual B entitlement, so can remove the 78 restriction from all vocational categories held by exchanging their licence
You wouldn’t happen to have a link to anything with regards to the ending of this concession would you? I’m ok as I was driving before the change but I know a couple of people who it may affect?
AF1:
djw:
The old concession that Dazza1980 posted about, detailed on the now withdrawn INF52 leaflet, was withdrawn at the time the Third Driving Licence Directive was implemented in the UK on 19 January 2013, as the previous concession was not compliant with the new Directive. This is why you won’t find anything about the old concession on the driving licence part of gov.uk today.However, the changes do not affect any drivers who enjoyed the concession at the time of the change, so any driver holding category C on a GB licence from or before 18 January 2011 can still drive PCVs under the rules outlined in INF52.
You wouldn’t happen to have a link to anything with regards to the ending of this concession would you? I’m ok as I was driving before the change but I know a couple of people who it may affect?
I don’t have the legislative changes to hand - I could dig them up, but I won’t have the time to do so today and, in any case, they will be framed as an amendment to an already multiply amended set of regulations that are in legal language.
Found it thankyou.
Not being pedantic, just a question. Is it not psv anymore ? It’s just that people are putting pcv… sorry.
peterm:
Not being pedantic, just a question. Is it not psv anymore ? It’s just that people are putting pcv… sorry.
The terminology used now for driver licensing purposes is Large Goods Vehicles and Passenger Carrying Vehicles, not the older terms Heavy Goods Vehicles and Public Service Vehicles.
It is also possible to drive the coach in the circumstances described on a car licence IF it is over 30 years old at the time of driving.
djw:
The-Snowman:
Provided no passengers then yes you can.Generally no, you can’t drive a PCV using a Category C licence.
The old concession that Dazza1980 posted about, detailed on the now withdrawn INF52 leaflet, was withdrawn at the time the Third Driving Licence Directive was implemented in the UK on 19 January 2013, as the previous concession was not compliant with the new Directive. This is why you won’t find anything about the old concession on the driving licence part of gov.uk today.
However, the changes do not affect any drivers who enjoyed the concession at the time of the change, so any driver holding category C on a GB licence from or before 18 January 2011 can still drive PCVs under the rules outlined in INF52.
The old concession is so limited that there are probably very few drivers who knew about it. The number of drivers regularly using the concession was estimated to be very low at the time of its withdrawal.
The-Snowman:
Cat D is for buses that are automatics. For drive manual coaches you need a cat C but to take passengers you also need a pcv license.Category D allows you to drive all buses and coaches. You never need category C to drive a bus or coach.
Automatic only entitlement is shown against a category in the normal way - with a 78 restriction code.
If you have D(78) entitlement, then you are limited to driving automatic PCVs.Under the latest rules, the 78 automatic only restriction can be removed by exchanging your licence if you have or acquire manual entitlement for any one of B, BE, C, CE, C1, C1E, D, DE, D1 or D1E because you passed a test in a manual transmission vehicle and are not limited to automatic transmission vehicles for medical reasons. The majority of drivers hold manual B entitlement, so can remove the 78 restriction from all vocational categories held by exchanging their licence.
Isnt that basically just a long winded way of saying exactly what I said? 
Although now I think about it,is there not something about the number of seats on the vehicle? Or is that only for provisional D training,ie before passing the test?
Don’t forget your grey Farah trousers, tasseled shoes and white socks!
Don’t forget, if driving a manual coach, the gear lever should have a ridiculously long throw between gears 
The ability not to crack your head on the body as you stow the suitcases, a good selection of spare pens (without lids) and one of those clip on black little fans which is never switched on, are all a must too
If travelling with kids on a school trip, grit your teeth as you clock a teacher rushing to the back with a bucket and paper towels as some poor kid yaks up their packed lunch in the stifling, exhaust laden heat 
Hear is a cut and paste from Croner, note late para I THINK in this case the rule change was retrospective 
Q.
We employ a team of fitters, some of whom only hold a category C driving licence (LGV). We understand that they can drive PSVs in certain circumstances, but we have recently been told that they are not allowed to present vehicles for test, nor take a spare vehicle out to the scene of a broken-down vehicle or accident-damaged vehicle so that the driver can continue en route. What is the correct position?
A.
Under regulation 7(1) of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999, a person who has held, for a period of at least two years, a full category C licence (not category C1) used to be able to drive a motor vehicle included in category D (PCV with more than an eight-passenger carrying capacity) if that vehicle was:
a. damaged or defective and being driven to a place of repair or being road tested following repair; and
b. not used for the carriage of any person who is not connected with its repair or road testing.
This provision never did allow taking a vehicle for its annual test or taking a serviceable one to the scene of a breakdown or accident.
However, in a little-publicised amendment, contained in the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Motor Vehicle (Driving Licences) (Amendment) Regulations 2014 (SI 2014 No 3190), which came into effect on 29 December 2014, Regulation 7(1) was deleted. This means that, as of 29 December 2014, a large PCV can only be driven by the holder of a Category D licence, whatever the circumstances.
The-Snowman:
Cat D is for buses that are automatics. For drive manual coaches you need a cat C but to take passengers you also need a pcv license.
Wut? 
Category D is for passenger carrying vehicles with more than 16 passenger seats, or more than 8 if it’s longer than 8 metres [D1 if less]). Doesn’t matter what type of gearbox they have ! A PCV license is simply another term for a Cat D/D1 license.
To answer the question, yes you can drive a bus on Cat C if it’s empty, but IIRC only if it’s being driven to/from a place of repair, or not for hire/reward (i.e. personal use).
Edit: Just saw rickshaws post. Wasn’t aware of that new restriction. Oh well. Full Manual PCV license here, I charge a decent hourly rate 
As rickshawcabtaxi posted, the concession allowing some category C holder to drive a PCV in some circumstances (previously in regulation 7(1) of The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licence) Regulations 1999 (SI 1999/2864)) was revoked by regulation 4 of The Road Traffic Act 1988 and Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) Regulations 2014 (SI 2014/3190) effective from 29 December 2014.
Contrary to my earlier suggestion, there is no saving provision for people who held a C licence for two years at the date of revocation.
From 29 December 2014, a category C licence cannot be used to drive a PCV under any circumstances. Anyone driving a PCV, even if it is empty for repair, needs a category D licence.
rickshawcabtaxi:
Hear is a cut and paste from Croner, note late para I THINK in this case the rule change was retrospective
There was no retrospective effect. The revocation of the previous concession came into force on the effective date of the revoking Statutory Instrument.
I have never held a psv or pcv licence but I had a class 1 hgv licence through grandfather rights which has now expired as I am now retired.
With a friend I own several old buses that we take to vehicle shows. The first of these we bought in 1972 and the buses date from 1934 up to 1957. The buses are classed as historic vehicles and I can drive them with up to 8 passengers on a car licence, not for hire or reward. The buses have to be 30 years old to do this, so I can drive the 1934 bus with vacuum brakes and crash gear box around the world with 8 passengers but I can not drive a modern vehicle empty half a mile down the road.
We also have a newer minibus that had over twenty seats and in order for me to be able to drive this we took some seats out so there are only 14 seats but again not for hire or reward.
Here is a photo of three of the buses giving rides around Castle Combe race track two weeks ago.
The-Snowman:
For drive manual coaches you need a cat C but to take passengers you also need a pcv license.
No you don’t, cat D is cat D regardless of whether it’s auto or manual
The passenger transport world used to refer to “teflon” drivers as they could only drive 2 pedal vehicles.Teflon being non-stick.Its a right pain when you learn the rules then the powers that be go and change them.
Most old coaches out there are sheds!
This happened to a innocent driver, he still got found guilt tho
Numbum:
With a friend I own several old buses that we take to vehicle shows. The first of these we bought in 1972 and the buses date from 1934 up to 1957. The buses are classed as historic vehicles and I can drive them with up to 8 passengers on a car licence, not for hire or reward.
The pictures show what beautiful vehicles you keep - how wonderful that you have them in such wonderful condition. As you identify, registering them as historic vehicles means they’re not treated as a PCV for licensing purposes.
I’m not sure the UK really wanted to revoke the old PCV on a category C licence concession. It was found to be incompatible with the European harmonised rules on driving licences, so it had to go. In reality, as the consultation identified, it likely affected relatively few drivers.
Those who regularly used the concession will hopefully not have had too many problems passing a category D test, considering they had acquired category C entitlement and were regularly driving PCVs. It’s likely they would have no need to acquire initial passenger driver CPC if they were really only driving PCVs for repair and testing purposes. If they did pass the PCV module 2 and module 4, they would only need one set of 35 hours every five years to meet the periodic training requirements for both goods and passenger driver CPC.