from the huddersfield examiner
I can’t understand why any body with half a brain cell would think they’ re not working. The sneaky bit is the way they hide them at the back of the signs.
What a load of bollox including the thread title 
The systems are primarily in place to impove traffic flow and throughput so neither speed or safety,
Knight it is generally accepted unless you can show from a verified source any different that the national speed limit is 70mph.
So anything over that you take your chances and don’t whine if caught/prosecuted 
speedyguy:
So anything over that you take your chances and don’t whine if caught/prosecuted
The police have openly admitted they will not stop cars doing 80 as long as they are doing it safely, so if the cameras are working all the time then that surely would be considered as entrapment?
:
speedyguy:
So anything over that you take your chances and don’t whine if caught/prosecutedThe police have openly admitted they will not stop cars doing 80 as long as they are doing it safely, so if the cameras are working all the time then that surely would be considered as entrapment?
No, not really as they will only flash at a minimum of 79mph because of the 10% + 2mph rule.
knight:
I can’t understand why any body with half a brain cell would think they’ re not working. The sneaky bit is the way they hide them at the back of the signs.
There’s nothing sneaky about it as there are speed camera signs on the gantries informing you that you are in a speed camera area. If there are no signs and you are flashed then you’ll be able to get off on a technicality. The days of sneaky speed cameras, whether fixed or mobile are long gone, remember when there were no signs and the Gatso’s were painted grey instead of orange so that you couldn’t see them!?
And there are some new average cameras going in between 24 and 25, as they are erecting a concrete central reservation on this stretch.
My mate installed the cable for them on Monday, and they will be going live in the next 2 weeks once the yellow poles are up.
Ken.
Lee1976:
:
speedyguy:
So anything over that you take your chances and don’t whine if caught/prosecutedThe police have openly admitted they will not stop cars doing 80 as long as they are doing it safely, so if the cameras are working all the time then that surely would be considered as entrapment?
No, not really as they will only flash at a minimum of 79mph because of the 10% + 2mph rule.
It does not matter what the police will and will not do in a legal sense, technology has changed due to previous ‘inaccuracies’ the police erred on the side of caution which isn’t required now, does HADECS remove the need to position a copper every 1/2 mile now therefore cutting cost and increasing compliance to get the same end result ?
No, not really as they will only flash at a minimum of 79mph because of the 10% + 2mph rule.
This is only a guideline and does not have to be followed.You can be nicked for doing 72 or 73 if the police so wish.Each individual police force can decide whether they will follow the 10% + 2 or not.
albion1971:
No, not really as they will only flash at a minimum of 79mph because of the 10% + 2mph rule.This is only a guideline and does not have to be followed.You can be nicked for doing 72 or 73 if the police so wish.Each individual police force can decide whether they will follow the 10% + 2 or not.
It is not down to individual forces to decide, I was a copper for 17 years. Attached is a table from the National ACPO Speed Enforcement Policy Guidance valid until 2015 which shows that the 10% rule is still to be adhered to. Of course, there can always be exceptions but to go against ACPO Policy guidelines would be extremely rare.
Lee1976:
albion1971:
No, not really as they will only flash at a minimum of 79mph because of the 10% + 2mph rule.This is only a guideline and does not have to be followed.You can be nicked for doing 72 or 73 if the police so wish.Each individual police force can decide whether they will follow the 10% + 2 or not.
It is not down to individual forces to decide, I was a copper for 17 years. Attached is a table from the National ACPO Speed Enforcement Policy Guidance valid until 2015 which shows that the 10% rule is still to be adhered to. Of course, there can always be exceptions but to go against ACPO Policy guidelines would be extremely rare.
I am also ex police and did a few years on a motorway traffic unit. National guidelines are set and although not always stuck to it is rare that you go against them. Yes technically you could do someone doing less than, say 79, on a motorway but it was not general policy. We, for example, on our unit didn’t bother stopping people until they were doing 90 on a motorway unless there were other dangerous factors involved.
And any half decent defence barrister would have a field day in court asking the officer to explain and justify why he went against ACPO Policy and accuse the officer of victimisation!
It’s happened and it’s not worth the hassle, believe me!
speedyguy:
What a load of bollox including the thread titleThe systems are primarily in place to impove traffic flow and throughput so neither speed or safety,
You seem pretty clued upon this so you might be able to tell me how does a speed camera improve traffic flow and throughput? In laymans terms please.
And i thought the thread title was a genuine question, just like what i’m asking you. Although it appears from first reading your reply that its neither a saftey nor speed requirment but more a management tactic? So which one is it, and how does it do it?
Mike-C:
speedyguy:
What a load of bollox including the thread titleThe systems are primarily in place to impove traffic flow and throughput so neither speed or safety,
You seem pretty clued upon this so you might be able to tell me how does a speed camera improve traffic flow and throughput? In laymans terms please.
And i thought the thread title was a genuine question, just like what i’m asking you. Although it appears from first reading your reply that its neither a saftey nor speed requirment but more a management tactic? So which one is it, and how does it do it?
I know you didn’t direct this at me but I think that the systems speedyguy is referring to are Managed Motorways and the purpose of variable speed limits which are explained here: highways.gov.uk/our-road-net … motorways/
Lee1976:
knight:
I can’t understand why any body with half a brain cell would think they’ re not working. The sneaky bit is the way they hide them at the back of the signs.There’s nothing sneaky about it as there are speed camera signs on the gantries informing you that you are in a speed camera area. If there are no signs and you are flashed then you’ll be able to get off on a technicality. The days of sneaky speed cameras, whether fixed or mobile are long gone, remember when there were no signs and the Gatso’s were painted grey instead of orange so that you couldn’t see them!?
I can think of several sites where I live (in a city) where there are no signs warning of speed cameras.
I probably didn’t explain myself correctly. Speed cameras either have to be clearly visible i.e. in a prominent position and painted orange so drivers can see them. If they aren’t then speed camera signage has to be displayed in the relevant areas, this will also include mobile speed cameras vans that can only operate within properly signed areas. If you get a speeding ticket outside these parameters then contest the ticket in court.
Lee1976:
I probably didn’t explain myself correctly. Speed cameras either have to be clearly visible i.e. in a prominent position and painted orange so drivers can see them. If they aren’t then speed camera signage has to be displayed in the relevant areas, this will also include mobile speed cameras that can only operate within properly signed areas. If you get a speeding ticket outside these parameters then contest the ticket in court.
Three is a speed camera near me which is brightly painted and fairly prominent and yet people still fly through and get a flash ( 
) ever day. I can a only assume the are in unregistered vehicles? It’s either that or their observation skills are so bad maybe they shouldn’t be on the road.
Lee1976:
Mike-C:
speedyguy:
What a load of bollox including the thread titleThe systems are primarily in place to impove traffic flow and throughput so neither speed or safety,
You seem pretty clued upon this so you might be able to tell me how does a speed camera improve traffic flow and throughput? In laymans terms please.
And i thought the thread title was a genuine question, just like what i’m asking you. Although it appears from first reading your reply that its neither a saftey nor speed requirment but more a management tactic? So which one is it, and how does it do it?I know you didn’t direct this at me but I think that the systems speedyguy is referring to are Managed Motorways and the purpose of variable speed limits which are explained here: highways.gov.uk/our-road-net … motorways/
Lee, the OP refers to when the signs are off, speedy guy refers to this as they make traffic flow better, or are supposed to. I’m aware of managed motorway systems, but the OP asks what is it? Speedy guy says the question is bollox. He says…
What a load of bollox including the thread title
The systems are primarily in place to impove traffic flow and throughput so neither speed or safety,
I just want to know from an educated source (like speedy guy) how they improve traffic flow. My first instinct is to think they will create a backlog through drivers slowing down for them as many of us witness everyday. But i’m willing to listen and be educated. So speed is not an issue, nor is saftey, so just how they improve traffic flow is going to be a revelation to me. I’m sure the rest of the guys here already know it and its just me.
Anybody who thinks that cameras are there for safety, traffic flow, accident/casualty reduction reasons etc needs a serious reality check…! Wake the zb up, you really think they’d invest millions in all that kit, the roadworks etc for nothing in return…■■?
Jezza & co mentioned this particular area of operation on top gear if I remember right, so it should come as no surprise…
The cameras are there to enforce a variable speed limit, which in turn will be set to optimise traffic flows.
As a road becomes busier, spacing between vehicles falls. If vehicles are travelling too fast and too close together you get ‘overbraking’ where one brakes because it is closing too quickly on the vehicle in front, this forces the vehicle behind it to brake, even harder, then you get a chain-reaction running down the road in the direction opposite to the flow of traffic until eventually the traffic comes to a halt some distance in both time and space from the original braking incident.
This is the cause of those incidents on the motorway where the traffic appears to stop ‘for no reason’.
They’ve done various exercises using computer models etc and found that 40 mph is the optimum speed for flowing traffic on a very busy road. Any faster, and the distance between the vehicles have to increase or you get the ‘phantom traffic jam’ described above. Any slower, and it just takes too long for the traffic to pass a given point, so the number of vehicles passing the point per minute falls although the number of vehicle son the road increases.
Hence the variable speed limit will fall as the road gets busier. It actually helps to keep the traffic flowing providing people stick to the limit, don’t swap lanes needlessly and don’t accelerate and brake between the gantries.
It’s all explained in the book ‘Traffic’ by Tom Vanderbilt rather better than I have managed above.