oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news- … -m60-crash
Anyone have any thoughts on this story ?
My thoughts are…what do the Highway Agency actually do ■■?
The very fact that the HATO officer said the motorway hard shoulder ‘was a relatively safe place for the car and it’s driver’ I find fairly shocking. The hard shoulder in my opinion is never a safe place, let alone when its icy. Stupid comment by her.
I totally agree with the comment left on the site. A police officer would NEVER have left the vehicle there, unless they were called away to another job.
She left to “continue her normal patrol”■■ Translates as “this is cold, I’m off for a sit in my warm car and look important” 
It is because she hadn’t been trained to assess the danger, WTF was she doing in a HATO car then?
I have said before, it should be traffic policeman patrolling the roads, leave the HATO to pick up broken bumpers and glass like they do in Europe.
We need properly trained police officers, even more so if the £100 fpn comes into force. after a fatal, we need proper home office forensics, let the police do their job, then let the HATO open the road or clear the debris.
There should be no need to close a road for 6 or 7 hours after an incident.
I am waiting for the normal replies from the normal commentors 
Wheel Nut:
It is because she hadn’t been trained to assess the danger, WTF was she doing in a HATO car then?I have said before, it should be traffic policeman patrolling the roads, leave the HATO to pick up broken bumpers and glass like they do in Europe.
We need properly trained police officers, even more so if the £100 fpn comes into force. after a fatal, we need proper home office forensics, let the police do their job, then let the HATO open the road or clear the debris.
There should be no need to close a road for 6 or 7 hours after an incident.
I am waiting for the normal replies from the normal commentors
I’m not normal, so I’ll leave them to it 
well i knew Denis, worked with him on the touring. funny bloke who wouldnt have took any risks.
as for the road there should havebeen warnings or at least a lane closed for a bit so nobody would be able to come near. eg the hatos shouldnt have left the scene until that car had been on its way away from the scene.
So lets blame the HATO.
First of all the damaged vehicle was now on the H/S, not in a live lane, the driver was safely stood behind the barrier.
There are thousands of vehicles recovered from the H/S every day without lane closures or a jeep with flashing lights sat behind them. The recovery trucks themselves have full width beacons fitted, if not more!
So the road was slippery, that particular day, the whole of England was slippery! the gritters were working 24 hours none stop.
The recovery operator wasn’t repairing anything on the offside of the car, but was just putting the tie down straps over vehicles wheels to secure it to the recovery truck, this takes just a couple of minutes. The same that every recovery truck driver does at every breakdown he attends.
The car driver that hit the recovery operator hadn’t adjusted for the road conditions, lots of others that passed that spot had! Sorry, but it’s the car drivers fault, not the recovery driver, and certainly not the HATO’s.
The HATO followed correct procedures, they don’t have to know recovery procedures (neither do police) that’s the recovery drivers speciallity, the recovery driver followed correct procedures, If he’s thought that there was a additional risk over and above the normal risk of the job (and yes, it is a risky job) then he had the phone number to call for a HATO to re-attend to implement a lane closure if needed.
Do you honestly think that having a jeep with flashing lights sat behind the vehicle would have protected this recovery driver? ( It can make it worse, like moths to a light-bulb.)
I can tell you that on one day along during that cold spell, 2 police cars, two HATO cars and an ISU were struck on the H/S in our region alone. there is a large percentage of the great British driver that cannot adjust to driving in poor conditions
You guys drive the motorways all day, how many times do you see vehicles being recovered from the H/S 100’s, 1000’s? do you really want a lane closure putting on for every single one of them? if you do, then you’d need to expand the HATO service 10 fold!
For wheel nut, when roads are closed for hours, it’s because someone has spread themselves or some else across the tarmac, and the POLICE are in charge of when and how long it stays closed whilst they carry out a full investigation, the HATO’s are there to stop the nutters that would move the cones out of the way and drive through it all.
And for “The Sarge” don’t talk crap! the procedure that HATO’s work to are copied from the police ones. The police would leave once the vehicle was on the H/S and they’d confirmed that recovery had been arranged.
the point is your forgetting that the hatos were at the scene before the recovery truck. why did it leave part way through it? why didnt it just stay till he was gone? probably would have been another 5 mins sat on the h/s possibly giving traffic approaching a warning that something was going on and mayby this accident wouldnt have happened.
if the hatos wernt on scene to begin with then fair up cant blame them but the fact they were and left because she hadnt been trained properly?
fills you with confidence doesnt it (Y)
The real Biffo:
So lets blame the HATO.
First of all the damaged vehicle was now on the H/S, not in a live lane, the driver was safely stood behind the barrier.
There are thousands of vehicles recovered from the H/S every day without lane closures or a jeep with flashing lights sat behind them. The recovery trucks themselves have full width beacons fitted, if not more!
So the road was slippery, that particular day, the whole of England was slippery! the gritters were working 24 hours none stop.
The recovery operator wasn’t repairing anything on the offside of the car, but was just putting the tie down straps over vehicles wheels to secure it to the recovery truck, this takes just a couple of minutes. The same that every recovery truck driver does at every breakdown he attends.
The car driver that hit the recovery operator hadn’t adjusted for the road conditions, lots of others that passed that spot had! Sorry, but it’s the car drivers fault, not the recovery driver, and certainly not the HATO’s.
The HATO followed correct procedures, they don’t have to know recovery procedures (neither do police) that’s the recovery drivers speciallity, the recovery driver followed correct procedures, If he’s thought that there was a additional risk over and above the normal risk of the job (and yes, it is a risky job) then he had the phone number to call for a HATO to re-attend to implement a lane closure if needed.
Do you honestly think that having a jeep with flashing lights sat behind the vehicle would have protected this recovery driver? ( It can make it worse, like moths to a light-bulb.)
I can tell you that on one day along during that cold spell, 2 police cars, two HATO cars and an ISU were struck on the H/S in our region alone. there is a large percentage of the great British driver that cannot adjust to driving in poor conditions
You guys drive the motorways all day, how many times do you see vehicles being recovered from the H/S 100’s, 1000’s? do you really want a lane closure putting on for every single one of them? if you do, then you’d need to expand the HATO service 10 fold!For wheel nut, when roads are closed for hours, it’s because someone has spread themselves or some else across the tarmac, and the POLICE are in charge of when and how long it stays closed whilst they carry out a full investigation, the HATO’s are there to stop the nutters that would move the cones out of the way and drive through it all.
And for “The Sarge” don’t talk crap! the procedure that HATO’s work to are copied from the police ones. The police would leave once the vehicle was on the H/S and they’d confirmed that recovery had been arranged.
I disagree with just about everything you said, apart from “it was the car driver’s fault”.
gogzy:
the point is your forgetting that the hatos were at the scene before the recovery truck. why did it leave part way through it? why didnt it just stay till he was gone? probably would have been another 5 mins sat on the h/s possibly giving traffic approaching a warning that something was going on and mayby this accident wouldnt have happened.if the hatos wernt on scene to begin with then fair up cant blame them but the fact they were and left because she hadnt been trained properly?
fills you with confidence doesnt it (Y)
What does she have to be trained in■■? she’s certainly not going to recover a vehicle. I’d like to see the reaction of a recovery op if a hato said, “you need to do it this way, not that way”
I either think that has been reported incorrectly, or a bad choice of words on her behalf.
Read my post again, HATO was at scene alongside the police, the vehicle was on the H/S, no-one was injured, the police left sorting out the vehicle recovery to the HATO, this happens 100’s times a day.
The recovery was sorted whichever way, there was no further need for the HATO to stay, (5 mins for recovery, which planet do you live on?)
If it had been something were the recovery attendee would need to “work” on the O/S of a vehicle, for example an O/S tyre change on a HGV, they would still have left, but passed their mobile tel number to the driver of the broken down vehicle, so they could be called back if the tyre fitter etc needed a lane closure implementing to carry out the repair. They do this plenty of times (not during rush hour though)
the accident happened as he was strapping the car down so it was already on the back of the truck thats where the extra 5 mins comes from.
she has to be trained to be able to do her job and she has already said was she wasnt trained to do her job properly. she hadnt had been trained to assess the dangers etc as wheelnut said why was she out in a hato car?
theres alot of variables in this, but the fact is they should have stayed till it was all over unless told to be on their way from a higher power/police which i highly doubt would happen
The real Biffo:
The HATO followed correct procedures, they don’t have to know recovery procedures (neither do police) that’s the recovery drivers speciallity, the recovery driver followed correct procedures, If he’s thought that there was a additional risk over and above the normal risk of the job (and yes, it is a risky job) then he had the phone number to call for a HATO to re-attend to implement a lane closure if needed.For wheel nut, when roads are closed for hours, it’s because someone has spread themselves or some else across the tarmac, and the POLICE are in charge of when and how long it stays closed whilst they carry out a full investigation, the HATO’s are there to stop the nutters that would move the cones out of the way and drive through it all.
Ms Jones admitted that she hadn’t been trained to assess the risk of leaving a crashed vehicle and its driver.
If she is not trained properly, how can she make this assessment?
“It was a relatively safe environment for the car and its driver,”
No one is suggesting she has to know how to recover a vehicle or help to fasten it on.
gogzy:
the accident happened as he was strapping the car down so it was already on the back of the truck thats where the extra 5 mins comes from.she has to be trained to be able to do her job and she has already said was she wasnt trained to do her job properly. she hadnt had been trained to assess the dangers etc as wheelnut said why was she out in a hato car?
theres alot of variables in this, but the fact is they should have stayed till it was all over unless told to be on their way from a higher power/police which i highly doubt would happen
It only takes a couple of minutes to put 2 straps on (I have done the job!) but it could be 60 - 90 mins from when recovery was arranged before it attended.
If the hato had stayed, WHAT would you wish them to do? put a lane closure on? if so, then for every RAC, AA Greenflag, etc. etc. recovery from the H/S would you want a lane closure putting on for every one of those also? that type of recovery is no different to the recovery this recovery agent was doing.
For wheel nut;
If a vehicle needs recovery, if it’s on the H/S and is not in poor position due to a bend, slip road or similar that would make it more hazardous. If hazards etc or showing, then ADVICE will be given to the occupants to stand behind the barrier, not sit in their vehicle (This is advice, the occs do not need to comply) the HATO can then leave the scene.
They would stay under certain conditions, but this wasn’t one of them.
It was a relatively safe environment for the vehicle and the driver, he was stood behind the barrier, assessment over!
The fact remains, that there was a HATO car there, and the car left - they should have stayed. And as for her assertion that the hard shoulder is a relatively safe place to be, that beggars belief 
The Sarge:
The fact remains, that there was a HATO car there, and the car left - they should have stayed. And as for her assertion that the hard shoulder is a relatively safe place to be, that beggars belief
Still talking crap Sarge!
you still can’t read and take it all in can you.
It was a relatively safe place to be, somewhat safer than in the live lane, and even more safer because the driver was behind the barrier.
There was no further need for the hato to stay.
If we had it your way, a hato would have to stay with EVERY vehicle broken down on the H/S.
The recovery was a normal recovery from the H/S nothing less, nothing more. The kind of thing that recovery driver did day after day after day.
The fault lies entirely with the golf driver that ran into the recovery truck. It was unfortunate that the recovery driver was strapping the vehicle down on the O/S just when this bad driver happened to be passing.
Just to put it in perspective, during that cold spell, in less than 1 hour, we had 23 different RTC’s on ONE motorway alone, we even had cars running into the back of the gritting trucks. would you like a hato to stop behind every one??
The real Biffo:
The Sarge:
The fact remains, that there was a HATO car there, and the car left - they should have stayed. And as for her assertion that the hard shoulder is a relatively safe place to be, that beggars beliefStill talking crap Sarge!
you still can’t read and take it all in can you.It was a relatively safe place to be, somewhat safer than in the live lane, and even more safer because the driver was behind the barrier.
There was no further need for the hato to stay.
If we had it your way, a hato would have to stay with EVERY vehicle broken down on the H/S.
The recovery was a normal recovery from the H/S nothing less, nothing more. The kind of thing that recovery driver did day after day after day.
The fault lies entirely with the golf driver that ran into the recovery truck. It was unfortunate that the recovery driver was strapping the vehicle down on the O/S just when this bad driver happened to be passing.Just to put it in perspective, during that cold spell, in less than 1 hour, we had 23 different RTC’s on ONE motorway alone, we even had cars running into the back of the gritting trucks. would you like a hato to stop behind every one??
The HATO was on scene! Why the hell not stay on scene - that way the accident may not have happened. If there had been no HATO, and the accident had happened, so be it - but the woman “wan’t trained” to make the risk assessment, so should have gone for the safest option - STAY PUT!!
And that’s twice you’ve insulted me now, so on the ignore list you go…
I cannot see why HATO were required to stay on scene. There was, from what I have been told, plenty of live lane incidents on-going at the time, which are far more important than waiting behind a vehicle on the h/s with the driver relatively safe BEHIND a barrier. If recovery was on scene, then yes, wait the five minutes for recovery to take place. I cannot see any point in sitting behind a lone car on the h/s waiting 30+ minutes for a recovery truck to arrive. Police didn’t deem it necassary to remain on scene. In my area, all the professional recovery operators have HATO control room contact numbers so if they need assistance, it can be arranged. The Traffic Officer’s comments are not the best, but knowing the press, is that what she said and in the correct context?? I will defend HATOs when I feel the need, and also criticise, and this is one of those occassions where they have done nothing wrong. There is only one person to blame for this tragic incident and it is not the Police, HATO or recovery operative. But as with most (not all) people in this thread, I do not know the full facts, so all this is just pure speculation on our part. I would take more note if the coronor criticises HATO instead of regional news journalist.
The Sarge:
The HATO was on scene! Why the hell not stay on scene - that way the accident may not have happened. If there had been no HATO, and the accident had happened, so be it - but the woman “wan’t trained” to make the risk assessment, so should have gone for the safest option - STAY PUT!!
And that’s twice you’ve insulted me now, so on the ignore list you go…
Could have been 2 people dead if she stayed, no-one knows what the outcome would have been if she stayed so I don’t understand how people can partly blame her 
switchlogic:
The very fact that the HATO officer said the motorway hard shoulder ‘was a relatively safe place for the car and it’s driver’ I find fairly shocking. The hard shoulder in my opinion is never a safe place, let alone when its icy. Stupid comment by her.
This was her full comment in the Manchester Evening News.
Officer Jones admitted that she hadn’t been trained to assess the risk of leaving a crashed vehicle and its driver.
“I don’t recall being taught specific examples,” she said.
"I don’t recall being taught anything to do with the safe recovery of vehicles. Once recovery is in place and the driver is happy, we don’t have to remain with it.
I was under the impression that the HATO was to relieve the pressure on police officers to let them carry on with their normal duty, maybe we need someone to cover for HATO while they carry on with their duty.
She and her colleague, Reece Newell, left to continue with their normal patrol.