ADR regs

[NEJ]

This is one for "Diesel Dave"!

I got a phone call from one of our drivers today who pulled a box out of Felixstowe and he followed a Volvo FH16 pulling a hazardous load showing orange plates / placards etc. but not LQ`s.

Now the burning question is, the box was showing Class 1.4 explosives, now it could have been fireworks for instance, but I was always under the impression that anything in this class, such as Explosives / Detonators being carried required a second man, am I right or wrong?

[animal]

why would you need a second man

[shuttlespanker]

someone to video the drivers reaction when it explodes

[dieseldave]

This is one for "Diesel Dave"!

I got a phone call from one of our drivers today who pulled a box out of Felixstowe and he followed a Volvo FH16 pulling a hazardous load showing orange plates / placards etc. but not LQ`s.

Now the burning question is, the box was showing Class 1.4 explosives, now it could have been fireworks for instance, but I was always under the impression that anything in this class, such as Explosives / Detonators being carried required a second man, am I right or wrong?

Hi NEJ,

The requirement for an attendant (second man) for the carriage of explosives by road ceased in the UK on 01/07/2009.

It was never going to be an LQ question, because there are NO LQ exemptions for any substance or article in UN Class 1.
Is it possible that you're confusing LQ exemptions with the different exemptions for carriage below ADR transport category thresholds?

You've not mentioned what compatibility letter was on the 1.4 placard... Or could the driver only see the "1.4" and there was no letter?
If there was a letter (but not an "S") I'd also have to know the Nett Explosive Mass (NEM) in kgs to give you a good answer as to whether placards, orange plates and an ADR licence were actually necessary, but I guess it's unlikely that we'll get this info.

[dieseldave]

why would you need a second man

I'm guessing a little here and thinking that NEJ correctly remembered that an 'attendant' was a requirement for the carriage of explosives in excess of the relevant transport category limits in the UK.
My next little guess is that the DGSA that NEJ's company uses may not have told him that the requirement ceased on 01/07/2009.

[Lycanthrope]

Apparently the rules have changed since I last moved explosives, but I believe 1.4S did not require a 2nd man as it was very small amounts (fireworks) if theres no letter then its probably mixed stuff. 1.4 is pathetic stuff that only makes fires burn more intensely what you want is a teaspoon of 1.1D and you'll demolish your house


Offtopic slightly but I know DD gets all excited at this stuff look what I spotted in the services somewhere DD

[dieseldave]

someone to video the drivers reaction when it explodes

1.4 is the least dangerous of the 'stuff' in UN Class 1, so there's not much entertainment value in terms of destructive power.

UN Class 1 in descending order of danger: (Highest) 1.1 - 1.5 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 1.6 - 1.4 (Lowest)

[Willy Gofar]

someone to video the drivers reaction when it explodes

1.4 is the least dangerous of the 'stuff' in UN Class 1, so there's not much entertainment value in terms of destructive power.

UN Class 1 in descending order of danger: (Highest) 1.1 - 1.5 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 1.6 - 1.4 (Lowest)

I don't carry anything that requires explosive warnings ( I think, do carry small amounts of shotgun cartridges and am told I don't need any warning signs ) but the logical me wonders why the order in terms of danger isn't 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6 ?????? Is this just another way of confusing us drivers and anyone else who has a passing interest??????

[DAF95XF]

Dave Ive got a question, am I right in thinking that container drivers dont neccesarily need an ADR licence if the container is showing placards showing whats inside is harmful to the enviroment, just need the orange boards up?

[Lycanthrope]

but the logical me wonders why the order in terms of danger isn't 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6 ?????? Is this just another way of confusing us drivers and anyone else who has a passing interest??????

Since when is any kind of regulation logical ?

[Deathstar]

Dave Ive got a question, am I right in thinking that container drivers dont neccesarily need an ADR licence if the container is showing placards showing whats inside is harmful to the enviroment, just need the orange boards up?

You can only drive a vehicle displaying Orange Placards if you are carrying your ADR Licence with you,neither can you drive an unloaded vehicle displaying Orange Placaards,they must be covered up,Licence or no Licence.They are there to alert the Emergency Services of potential hazards.Strangely though,you can drive a Tanker full of Milk which would be hazardous to the environment with neither Orange Plates or an ADR Licence.If enough milk was allowed into a water course it would remove all oxygen and therefore kill fish.

[NEJ]

Thanks for the info Dave, as the driver who saw the vehicle concerned just said that the letter suffix was "G" but obviously no mass weights.

He was just a bit bothered about having no 2nd man, as he had just done his ADR course a few months back, but as he wasn,t covering explosives he didn,t know the regs had changed.

[dieseldave]

Thanks for the info Dave, as the driver who saw the vehicle concerned just said that the letter suffix was "G" but obviously no mass weights.

He was just a bit bothered about having no 2nd man, as he had just done his ADR course a few months back, but as he wasn,t covering explosives he didn,t know the regs had changed.

Hi NEJ,

Thanks for the extra info.

The limit for 1.4G is 333kgs. NEM [Nett Explosive Mass.] (This means that only the actual weight of explosive material is counted.)

So, if the driver had only got (say) 200kg NEM, the container needed orange placards with 1.4G on them, but NO need for orange plates on the vehicle or an ADR licence. (If that wasn't an international journey, the UK Regs have a more generous 500kg NEM 'freebie' limit for 1.4G.)
(And defo no second man. )

A standard ADR course wouldn't normally mention anything that's specific to UN Class 1.

[dieseldave]

Dave Ive got a question, am I right in thinking that container drivers dont neccesarily need an ADR licence if the container is showing placards showing whats inside is harmful to the enviroment, just need the orange boards up?

Hi Stu,

Not quite mate, cos the requirement for orange boards and an ADR licence goes hand-in-hand in this case.

If something is considered to be an aquatic pollutant, it's not necessarily counted as dangerous goods.

[dieseldave]

You can only drive a vehicle displaying Orange Placards if you are carrying your ADR Licence with you,neither can you drive an unloaded vehicle displaying Orange Placaards,they must be covered up,Licence or no Licence.They are there to alert the Emergency Services of potential hazards.Strangely though,you can drive a Tanker full of Milk which would be hazardous to the environment with neither Orange Plates or an ADR Licence.If enough milk was allowed into a water course it would remove all oxygen and therefore kill fish.

Hi Deathstar,

Do you mean orange placards or orange plates please? (Orange placards are diamond shaped. Orange plates are rectangular.)

[dieseldave]

I don't carry anything that requires explosive warnings ( I think, do carry small amounts of shotgun cartridges and am told I don't need any warning signs )

Hi Willy Gofar, the person who told you that is correct.
Shotgun cartridges are usually 1.4S, and there's no limit, so no orange boards, placards or ADR licence is needed.

but the logical me wonders why the order in terms of danger isn't 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6 ?????? Is this just another way of confusing us drivers and anyone else who has a passing interest??????

No mate, that certainly isn't the case, because what 'stuff' is in what division isn't part of a driver's duties. In the UK, explosives are classified by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) so not even the consignor or carrier (your boss) get to decide.

ADR then says that the divisions descend in danger in the order that I gave.

[dieseldave]

1.4 is pathetic stuff that only makes fires burn more intensely

Hi Lycanthrope, Sorry mate but ADR's definition of 1.4 is at odds with yours...

ADR 2009 2.2.1.1.5
Division 1.4
Substances and articles which present only a slight risk of explosion in the event of ignition or initiation during carriage. The effects are largely confined to the package and no projection of fragments of appreciable size or range is to be expected. An external fire shall not cause virtually instantaneous explosion of almost the entire contents of the package.

What you wrote above would be pretty close to the definition of UN Class 5.1 though.

Offtopic slightly but I know DD gets all excited at this stuff look what I spotted in the services somewhere DD

Thanks for sharing that pic.

[Carryfast]

1.4 is pathetic stuff that only makes fires burn more intensely

Hi Lycanthrope, Sorry mate but ADR's definition of 1.4 is at odds with yours..

Is'nt that a good description of Amonium Nitrate being that it's an oxidiser Which brings us back to that old story of the Texas City Explosion

[dieseldave]

1.4 is pathetic stuff that only makes fires burn more intensely

Hi Lycanthrope, Sorry mate but ADR's definition of 1.4 is at odds with yours..

Is'nt that a good description of Amonium Nitrate being that it's an oxidiser

Hi Carryfast, it certainly is mate.

Which brings us back to that old story of the Texas City Explosion

Aargh!! not that again!

[scania245]

hazard a guess airbag detonaters.

[dieseldave]

hazard a guess airbag detonaters.

Hi scania245, that's a distinct possibility mate, because....

UN 0503 AIR BAG INFLATORS or AIR BAG MODULES or SEAT-BELT PRETENSIONERS are all 1.4G

But some fireworks and some types of aerial flares are also 1.4G.

Dave's strange, but true....
Once said inflators, modules or pretensioners are assembled into components, such as steering columns or door panels, they drop into UN Class 9 PGIII, but AREN'T subject to ADR in any amount. Nor is a completed vehicle, otherwise car-transporter drivers would need ADR cos of the dangerous goods used in the manufacture of the cars they carry.

[Dunno then?]

hazard a guess airbag detonaters.

Hi scania245, that's a distinct possibility mate, because....

UN 0503 AIR BAG INFLATORS or AIR BAG MODULES or SEAT-BELT PRETENSIONERS are all 1.4G

But some fireworks and some types of aerial flares are also 1.4G.

Dave's strange, but true....
Once said inflators, modules or pretensioners are assembled into components, such as steering columns or door panels, they drop into UN Class 9 PGIII, but AREN'T subject to ADR in any amount. Nor is a completed vehicle, otherwise car-transporter drivers would need ADR cos of the dangerous goods used in the manufacture of the cars they carry.

Yaawwn!

[dieseldave]

hazard a guess airbag detonaters.

Hi scania245, that's a distinct possibility mate, because....

UN 0503 AIR BAG INFLATORS or AIR BAG MODULES or SEAT-BELT PRETENSIONERS are all 1.4G

But some fireworks and some types of aerial flares are also 1.4G.

Dave's strange, but true....
Once said inflators, modules or pretensioners are assembled into components, such as steering columns or door panels, they drop into UN Class 9 PGIII, but AREN'T subject to ADR in any amount. Nor is a completed vehicle, otherwise car-transporter drivers would need ADR cos of the dangerous goods used in the manufacture of the cars they carry.

Yaawwn!

Sorry about making you yawn mate, but nobody here made you read it.

[dinosteveus1]

Ummmm, before I went off on my jolly, I had a call from an Agency in Ipswich asking if I had Class 1 on my ADR cos he might have had some work for me. Phew, that was a close call

[Dunno then?]

hazard a guess airbag detonaters.

Hi scania245, that's a distinct possibility mate, because....

UN 0503 AIR BAG INFLATORS or AIR BAG MODULES or SEAT-BELT PRETENSIONERS are all 1.4G

But some fireworks and some types of aerial flares are also 1.4G.

Dave's strange, but true....
Once said inflators, modules or pretensioners are assembled into components, such as steering columns or door panels, they drop into UN Class 9 PGIII, but AREN'T subject to ADR in any amount. Nor is a completed vehicle, otherwise car-transporter drivers would need ADR cos of the dangerous goods used in the manufacture of the cars they carry.

Yaawwn!

Sorry about making you yawn mate, but nobody here made you read it.

This is true.

But after 11 posts on one subject,.

[dieseldave]

hazard a guess airbag detonaters.

Hi scania245, that's a distinct possibility mate, because....

UN 0503 AIR BAG INFLATORS or AIR BAG MODULES or SEAT-BELT PRETENSIONERS are all 1.4G

But some fireworks and some types of aerial flares are also 1.4G.

Dave's strange, but true....
Once said inflators, modules or pretensioners are assembled into components, such as steering columns or door panels, they drop into UN Class 9 PGIII, but AREN'T subject to ADR in any amount. Nor is a completed vehicle, otherwise car-transporter drivers would need ADR cos of the dangerous goods used in the manufacture of the cars they carry.

Yaawwn!

Sorry about making you yawn mate, but nobody here made you read it.

This is true.

But after 11 posts on one subject,you must admit it,you are a bit hard to get rid of.

Why would you want to get rid of me?

If you re-read the posts, the 11 were clarifications or answers to other questions from other posters.

If you'd like a shot at answering the questions, I'll happily move over for you.

[Dunno then?]

hazard a guess airbag detonaters.

Hi scania245, that's a distinct possibility mate, because....

UN 0503 AIR BAG INFLATORS or AIR BAG MODULES or SEAT-BELT PRETENSIONERS are all 1.4G

But some fireworks and some types of aerial flares are also 1.4G.

Dave's strange, but true....
Once said inflators, modules or pretensioners are assembled into components, such as steering columns or door panels, they drop into UN Class 9 PGIII, but AREN'T subject to ADR in any amount. Nor is a completed vehicle, otherwise car-transporter drivers would need ADR cos of the dangerous goods used in the manufacture of the cars they carry.

Yaawwn!

Sorry about making you yawn mate, but nobody here made you read it.

This is true.

But after 11 posts on one subject,you must admit it,you are a bit hard to get rid of.

Why would you want to get rid of me?

If you re-read the posts, the 11 were clarifications or answers to other questions from other posters.

If you'd like a shot at answering the questions, I'll happily move over for you.

Why do you equate any question about ADR as a personal challenge??

[dieseldave]

Why do you equate any question about ADR as a personal challenge??

Have you read my signature?
I do my best to help folks understand a complicated set of Regs by answering their questions.

[scania245]

As dave has all the EXPERIENCE works in this field , and is a good an well respected source of sound advice .
youre point is what muppet.

[Carryfast]

1.4 is pathetic stuff that only makes fires burn more intensely

Hi Lycanthrope, Sorry mate but ADR's definition of 1.4 is at odds with yours..

Is'nt that a good description of Amonium Nitrate being that it's an oxidiser

Hi Carryfast, it certainly is mate.

Which brings us back to that old story of the Texas City Explosion

Aargh!! not that again!

That's what they said when the High Flyer blew up after the Grandcamp.

Just thought the thread needed a bit of cheering up as some seemed to be getting a bit bored and upset with airbag detonators.