********, Brexit, CoVid.
I chose 8 asterisks instead of “Johnson” to make the “A B C” title work.
OIltreader asked me a question in the Oldies COVID thread, given my answer is gonna be rather wide ranging, Ive started a new thread here rather than take the other one totally off course. Because it is going to be wide ranging, and Ive still the day job to do there wont be lots of justification or references for many of my statements; if there were it would end up as book, not a post on a Drivers forum. And no one needs to be subjected to more of my scribblings than is absolutely required! . Firstly Johnson: As a Kings Scholar at Eton, he is clearly an intelligent person, but his school reports talk of "idleness, complacency, and lateness". At Oxford he got a 2.1, not bad, but not particularly good. Sacked from first job at The Times for fabricating an interview. Second job as a writer for The Telegraph where Chris Patten says he was an exponent of "fake journalism". (bent bananas, prawn crisps etc) And a job for the Spectator: "whilst at The Telegraph and The Spectator he was consistently late in delivering his copy, forcing many staff to stay late to accommodate him; some related that if they went ahead and published without his work included, he would get angry and shout at them with expletives". Whilst employed there he promised Conrad Black he wouldnt persue a political career. He stood as MP for Henley.
When he was elected London Mayor he resigned as MP, not to the pleasure of his local party.
As Mayor? Bit of a mixed bag.
Obviously he couldnt survive on the salary of £140,000 so had another job with a "chickenfeed" salary of £250,000 as a writer at the same time. He did manage a holiday in Turkey 3 weeks after starting his new job, so that needed paying for. He was shamed into donating £50,000 of his fees to charity. He claimed youth crime decreased, and police numbers increased, both lies. He said he wouldnt return to Parliament whilst he was Mayor. He did.
Foreign Secretary: months previously he supported Vote Leaves campaign and their scare mongering about Turkey joining the EU, now he visited Turkey and pledged to help them join the EU. He dropped Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe even deeper in the crap, and then weaseled about being "misquoted". He was the first and only MP criticised by Sir David Norgrave for "clear misuse of official statistics", regarding the £350million Brexit ■■■■■■■■, lies. His "red box" briefing papers are kept brief because he wont read long ones. How unlike previous leaders of all colours who work hard and consciously.
This is our current leader…
During his Brexit campaign he was a fan of one Prof Patrick Minford. One of the few professional economists who supports Brexit. 175 UK Economists (12 Nobel Laureats) said Brexit was bad, Minford said it was good, so Johnson could be said to be listening to expert advice. But clearly chooses which expert. Minford supports Brexit and believes UK manufacturing and farming should be run down as steel and mining already has been.
.twitter.com/rorystewartuk/statu … 01?lang=en
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Do I trust him to listen and take advice during the COVID crisis?
He was boasting about shaking hands when the experts spoke of distancing.
He has proved himself to be professionally a serial liar and deceiver. He chooses whichever expert supports his preconceived position. He is capable but lazy and careless.
.
And while all this is going on we are sleepwalking into a “no deal” Brexit.
Minford, Rees-Mogg, Gove, etc will be chuffed to bits.
Remember that “easiest trade negotiations in history” we were promised? That promise went the same way as all the other fictions. We are heading to the Minford model for the UK.
No farming, or manufacturing, just bankers and financiers employing low wage service industry minions…you and me.
Look at their plans: import cheaper labour to work on farms from outside the EU as pickers. Pay land owners, not to produce food as the silly EU does, but subsidise land to be used as leisure so we can import good cheap American GM and hormone foods,
and cheaper crops from low wage Africa etc.
It was a stupid idea before, and COVID has made it plain insane.
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AArrrggghhhhhh.
To develop this I need more time, but the shopping needs doing and the grass is still growing.
.
.
OH NO!!!
You have cracked the enigma that the elites of the world are corrupt.
Who knew.
OIltreader asked me a question in the Oldies COVID thread
I am in agreement with the present government’s mishandling of Covid-19 outbreak, for the benefit of this thread you should have quoted me more precisely.
“Scathing Franglais and justified, you vilify those in charge so which MPs or party would have done it better”
Oily
oiltreader:
OIltreader asked me a question in the Oldies COVID thread
I am in agreement with the present government’s mishandling of Covid-19 outbreak, for the benefit of this thread you should have quoted more precisely.
“Scathing Franglais and justified, you vilify those in charge so which MPs or party would have done it better”
Oily
To give some sort of answer your original question then:
I reckon just about any MP would make a better PM.
In the past I didnt agree with Mrs Thatchers politics, but will say she was honest, and hard working.
Mrs May was again a hard worker who tried her level best to deliver. Not helped at all by Johnson among others.
.
The fact that some good moves are being made (furloughing is a brave move) doesnt mean that this administration is doing as well as it could. The slow initial close down, and all the ambiguous advice, as opposed to clear instructions seems bad to me. The spin about PPE and testing numbers is just more fluff. Just the same as the fake numbers, spin, and lies deployed during Brexit. We deserve better. . This week we have had some Ministers talking about relaxing the lockdown; the press and public seemed unhappy, so we then had others spinning in the other direction. Is this "taking expert advice"? Looks like he is listening to popularity polls: he only wants to ask for what we are happy with and wont harm his popularity.
He is not a “leader”. He is quite a good speech maker, and a popular figure, for sure.
.
Anyway, he isnt the best of a bad bunch of current MPs, hes one of the worst, irrespective of party.
Almost anyone is preferable to him.
Franglais:
oiltreader:
OIltreader asked me a question in the Oldies COVID thread
I am in agreement with the present government’s mishandling of Covid-19 outbreak, for the benefit of this thread you should have quoted more precisely.
“Scathing Franglais and justified, you vilify those in charge so which MPs or party would have done it better”
Oily
To give some sort of answer your original question then:
I reckon just about any MP would make a better PM.
In the past I didnt agree with Mrs Thatchers politics, but will say she was honest, and hard working.
Mrs May was again a hard worker who tried her level best to deliver. Not helped at all by Johnson among others.
.
The fact that some good moves are being made (furloughing is a brave move) doesnt mean that this administration is doing as well as it could. The slow initial close down, and all the ambiguous advice, as opposed to clear instructions seems bad to me. The spin about PPE and testing numbers is just more fluff. Just the same as the fake numbers, spin, and lies deployed during Brexit. We deserve better. . This week we have had some Ministers talking about relaxing the lockdown; the press and public seemed unhappy, so we then had others spinning in the other direction. Is this "taking expert advice"? Looks like he is listening to popularity polls: he only wants to ask for what we are happy with and wont harm his popularity.
He is not a “leader”. He is quite a good speech maker, and a popular figure, for sure.
.
Anyway, he isnt the best of a bad bunch of current MPs, hes one of the worst, irrespective of party.
Almost anyone is preferable to him.
Can you name them? keep hearing about all these ministers saying lockdown is going to be eased yet haven’t seen a named quote, it would appear that the press got it spectacularly wrong with their headlines on Thursday and are now blaming un-named ministers for their inaccuracies.
^^^^ just imagine for a minute that your darlings had been elected to office and again imagine that Corbyn had been laid up with Covid. The thought that Diane Abbot would then have been running the country quite frankly makes my blood run cold.
Mazzer2:
Can you name them? keep hearing about all these ministers saying lockdown is going to be eased yet haven’t seen a named quote, it would appear that the press got it spectacularly wrong with their headlines on Thursday and are now blaming un-named ministers for their inaccuracies.
Boris Johnson.
PMQs: Boris Johnson on lockdown update statement timing
The prime minister has told MPs that some lockdown measures could change on Monday, and that plans would be announced on Sunday as this was the “best time” to do so.
bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics … ent-timing
the maoster:
^^^^ just imagine for a minute that your darlings had been elected to office and again imagine that Corbyn had been laid up with Covid. The thought that Diane Abbot would then have been running the country quite frankly makes my blood run cold.
“My darlings”?
Who are they? Corbyn and Abbott? Where have I praised them?
.
But dont go to too much effort looking: no matter what the sins of Corbyn or Abbott are, that will make no difference at all to the history of Johnson. However bad they are, however much you wish to distract the arguments, Johnsons history remains a well documented farce.
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Can you name them? keep hearing about all these ministers saying lockdown is going to be eased yet haven’t seen a named quote, it would appear that the press got it spectacularly wrong with their headlines on Thursday and are now blaming un-named ministers for their inaccuracies.
Boris Johnson.
PMQs: Boris Johnson on lockdown update statement timing
The prime minister has told MPs that some lockdown measures could change on Monday, and that plans would be announced on Sunday as this was the “best time” to do so.
bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics … ent-timing
So why the headlines on Thursday, the Mirror claimed to have seen the full plan but what they published is nothing like what has been proposed the measures outlined by the Welsh and Scottish governments are more in line with what is proposed not a full scale easing so until the new measures are announced tonight we will not know what they are. Just speculation by the press you cannot criticise something if you don’t know what it is
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Can you name them? keep hearing about all these ministers saying lockdown is going to be eased yet haven’t seen a named quote, it would appear that the press got it spectacularly wrong with their headlines on Thursday and are now blaming un-named ministers for their inaccuracies.
Boris Johnson.
PMQs: Boris Johnson on lockdown update statement timing
The prime minister has told MPs that some lockdown measures could change on Monday, and that plans would be announced on Sunday as this was the “best time” to do so.
bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics … ent-timing
So why the headlines on Thursday, the Mirror claimed to have seen the full plan but what they published is nothing like what has been proposed the measures outlined by the Welsh and Scottish governments are more in line with what is proposed not a full scale easing so until the new measures are announced tonight we will not know what they are. Just speculation by the press you cannot criticise something if you don’t know what it is
Speculation by the press? Yes.
Based on a speculative statement…speculating on what would happen Monday…by the PM.
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Can you name them? keep hearing about all these ministers saying lockdown is going to be eased yet haven’t seen a named quote, it would appear that the press got it spectacularly wrong with their headlines on Thursday and are now blaming un-named ministers for their inaccuracies.
Boris Johnson.
PMQs: Boris Johnson on lockdown update statement timing
The prime minister has told MPs that some lockdown measures could change on Monday, and that plans would be announced on Sunday as this was the “best time” to do so.
bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics … ent-timing
So why the headlines on Thursday, the Mirror claimed to have seen the full plan but what they published is nothing like what has been proposed the measures outlined by the Welsh and Scottish governments are more in line with what is proposed not a full scale easing so until the new measures are announced tonight we will not know what they are. Just speculation by the press you cannot criticise something if you don’t know what it is
Speculation by the press? Yes.
Based on a speculative statement…speculating on what would happen Monday…by the PM.
So the government announces it is to make a statement the press go into ■■■■■■■■ overdrive then by Thursday dinnertime realise they are way off the mark and blame the government for misinformation. Leo Varadkar made a similar statement before the holiday weekend that a review of procedures would be announce in a few days time didn’t see the press savaging him for that.
If the UK government just announced the changes out of the blue on Sunday evening they would be criticised for their lack of forewarning.
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Can you name them? keep hearing about all these ministers saying lockdown is going to be eased yet haven’t seen a named quote, it would appear that the press got it spectacularly wrong with their headlines on Thursday and are now blaming un-named ministers for their inaccuracies.
Boris Johnson.
PMQs: Boris Johnson on lockdown update statement timing
The prime minister has told MPs that some lockdown measures could change on Monday, and that plans would be announced on Sunday as this was the “best time” to do so.
bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics … ent-timing
So why the headlines on Thursday, the Mirror claimed to have seen the full plan but what they published is nothing like what has been proposed the measures outlined by the Welsh and Scottish governments are more in line with what is proposed not a full scale easing so until the new measures are announced tonight we will not know what they are. Just speculation by the press you cannot criticise something if you don’t know what it is
Speculation by the press? Yes.
Based on a speculative statement…speculating on what would happen Monday…by the PM.
The press getting wrong end of the stick [emoji6]never [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Sent while in furlough
Mazzer2:
So why the headlines on Thursday, the Mirror claimed to have seen the full plan but what they published is nothing like what has been proposed the measures outlined by the Welsh and Scottish governments are more in line with what is proposed not a full scale easing so until the new measures are announced tonight we will not know what they are. Just speculation by the press you cannot criticise something if you don’t know what it is
Speculation by the press? Yes.
Based on a speculative statement…speculating on what would happen Monday…by the PM.
[/quote]
So the government announces it is to make a statement the press go into [zb] overdrive then by Thursday dinnertime realise they are way off the mark and blame the government for misinformation. Leo Varadkar made a similar statement before the holiday weekend that a review of procedures would be announce in a few days time didn’t see the press savaging him for that.
If the UK government just announced the changes out of the blue on Sunday evening they would be criticised for their lack of forewarning.
[/quote]
I think that the Gov does have a problem there: If they say the lockdown will end in “X” days time then some will jump the gun. So they cannot warn in advance.
So, why didn`t Johnson say nowt? Giving notice, but of something indefinite is really the worst possible thing.
Bad information management by the PM. Are you saying he is expecting the press to not report and comment on PMQs? Come on.
Right then Franglais, instead of constantly of having a go at Boris put yourself in his shoes and with out the benefit of hindsight tell us what you would have done starting back in January. Tyneside
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
So why the headlines on Thursday, the Mirror claimed to have seen the full plan but what they published is nothing like what has been proposed the measures outlined by the Welsh and Scottish governments are more in line with what is proposed not a full scale easing so until the new measures are announced tonight we will not know what they are. Just speculation by the press you cannot criticise something if you don’t know what it is
Speculation by the press? Yes.
Based on a speculative statement…speculating on what would happen Monday…by the PM.
So the government announces it is to make a statement the press go into [zb] overdrive then by Thursday dinnertime realise they are way off the mark and blame the government for misinformation. Leo Varadkar made a similar statement before the holiday weekend that a review of procedures would be announce in a few days time didn’t see the press savaging him for that.
If the UK government just announced the changes out of the blue on Sunday evening they would be criticised for their lack of forewarning.
[/quote]
I think that the Gov does have a problem there: If they say the lockdown will end in “X” days time then some will jump the gun. So they cannot warn in advance.
So, why didn`t Johnson say nowt? Giving notice, but of something indefinite is really the worst possible thing.
Bad information management by the PM. Are you saying he is expecting the press to not report and comment on PMQs? Come on.
[/quote]
But the press are not reporting are they? They are speculating and by doing so publishing opinion not fact yet not making that clear. There was nothing wrong with reporting what was said but to then try to second guess the government’s moves is wrong and creates confusion, to then blame it on the government is cowardice on their behalf for not admitting their mistake. Hmmm, press criticise PM for not admitting his mistakes and then blame him for theirs and wonder why stories that are ■■■■■■■■ spread so fast pot, kettle black springs to mind.
Your thoughts on Merkel? rates have shot up in Germany over the weekend is she now to be demonised? Friday she was being held up as a shining example of how to govern Monday morning might tell a different tale, but more than likely the German press will take a more mature view than ours.
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
So why the headlines on Thursday, the Mirror claimed to have seen the full plan but what they published is nothing like what has been proposed the measures outlined by the Welsh and Scottish governments are more in line with what is proposed not a full scale easing so until the new measures are announced tonight we will not know what they are. Just speculation by the press you cannot criticise something if you don’t know what it is
Speculation by the press? Yes.
Based on a speculative statement…speculating on what would happen Monday…by the PM.
So the government announces it is to make a statement the press go into [zb] overdrive then by Thursday dinnertime realise they are way off the mark and blame the government for misinformation. Leo Varadkar made a similar statement before the holiday weekend that a review of procedures would be announce in a few days time didn’t see the press savaging him for that.
If the UK government just announced the changes out of the blue on Sunday evening they would be criticised for their lack of forewarning.
I think that the Gov does have a problem there: If they say the lockdown will end in “X” days time then some will jump the gun. So they cannot warn in advance.
So, why didn`t Johnson say nowt? Giving notice, but of something indefinite is really the worst possible thing.
Bad information management by the PM. Are you saying he is expecting the press to not report and comment on PMQs? Come on.
[/quote]
But the press are not reporting are they? They are speculating and by doing so publishing opinion not fact yet not making that clear. There was nothing wrong with reporting what was said but to then try to second guess the government’s moves is wrong and creates confusion, to then blame it on the government is cowardice on their behalf for not admitting their mistake. Hmmm, press criticise PM for not admitting his mistakes and then blame him for theirs and wonder why stories that are ■■■■■■■■ spread so fast pot, kettle black springs to mind.
Your thoughts on Merkel? rates have shot up in Germany over the weekend is she now to be demonised? Friday she was being held up as a shining example of how to govern Monday morning might tell a different tale, but more than likely the German press will take a more mature view than ours.
[/quote]
Ive no thoughts on Merkel, on this. I dont know enough to comment.
German press versus ours? Ha! German press again, I know nowt. I think we have some good responsible reporters, but too many who are (as previously pointed out) *********s!
tyneside:
Right then Franglais, instead of constantly of having a go at Boris put yourself in his shoes and with out the benefit of hindsight tell us what you would have done starting back in January. Tyneside
Dunno if I am “constantly having a go at Boris”?
Most of my post was a potted history of him.
If you find that a criticism by implication? Then I agree with you, serial liars are worthy of being criticised.
.
Can`t un-see from where we are now, can we? Everything I could say would be tinged with hindsight.
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
So why the headlines on Thursday, the Mirror claimed to have seen the full plan but what they published is nothing like what has been proposed the measures outlined by the Welsh and Scottish governments are more in line with what is proposed not a full scale easing so until the new measures are announced tonight we will not know what they are. Just speculation by the press you cannot criticise something if you don’t know what it is
Speculation by the press? Yes.
Based on a speculative statement…speculating on what would happen Monday…by the PM.
So the government announces it is to make a statement the press go into [zb] overdrive then by Thursday dinnertime realise they are way off the mark and blame the government for misinformation. Leo Varadkar made a similar statement before the holiday weekend that a review of procedures would be announce in a few days time didn’t see the press savaging him for that.
If the UK government just announced the changes out of the blue on Sunday evening they would be criticised for their lack of forewarning.
I think that the Gov does have a problem there: If they say the lockdown will end in “X” days time then some will jump the gun. So they cannot warn in advance.
So, why didn`t Johnson say nowt? Giving notice, but of something indefinite is really the worst possible thing.
Bad information management by the PM. Are you saying he is expecting the press to not report and comment on PMQs? Come on.
But the press are not reporting are they? They are speculating and by doing so publishing opinion not fact yet not making that clear. There was nothing wrong with reporting what was said but to then try to second guess the government’s moves is wrong and creates confusion, to then blame it on the government is cowardice on their behalf for not admitting their mistake. Hmmm, press criticise PM for not admitting his mistakes and then blame him for theirs and wonder why stories that are ■■■■■■■■ spread so fast pot, kettle black springs to mind.
Your thoughts on Merkel? rates have shot up in Germany over the weekend is she now to be demonised? Friday she was being held up as a shining example of how to govern Monday morning might tell a different tale, but more than likely the German press will take a more mature view than ours.
[/quote]
Ive no thoughts on Merkel, on this. I dont know enough to comment.
German press versus ours? Ha! German press again, I know nowt. I think we have some good responsible reporters, but too many who are (as previously pointed out) *********s!
[/quote]
A couple of examples of bad reporting from the two flagship programmes on R4, tonight on PM the guy who started Phones 4 U was being interviewed about relaxing restrictions, he spoke for 2 to 3 minutes then Evan Davies summarised by saying “So for you it’s all about the economy” to which the interviewee said “No that’s not what I said” a natural assumption from Davies that a business man is only interested in money. The other on Friday’s Today programme when interviewing the head of the armed forces he was asked a blatant political question, any journalist will know that the head of the armed forces cannot answer a political question so an obvious attempt to trip him up. At the moment it is all about point scoring they publish daily with glee that the testing target is being missed, but they never either ask or state why there could be many reasons why the target is not being hit, perhaps not enough people putting themselves forward? But according to MSM it’s the governments fault but is it? We don’t know because they are not asking the right questions the daily briefings have become a joke with each journalist asking the same question instead of beforehand having a conflab and agreeing to ask different questions which would lead to more information coming out they just go into full repetition mode. The government are not the only organisation not having a ‘good crisis’
tyneside:
Right then Franglais, instead of constantly of having a go at Boris put yourself in his shoes and with out the benefit of hindsight tell us what you would have done starting back in January. Tyneside
Well said “tyneside”, Im with you all the way, Give Boris a chance to sort this awfull Virus situation out, If these people dont agree with his decisions, Why dont they tell him what to do, Well they cant can they because they dont have eny knowledge of this sort of thing , He is taking advice from the medical proffesion to help him, Plus all the advice from them & people that are trying to get a antidote cure for it, So good luck to Boris & his team, Regards Larry.
Franglais:
tyneside:
Right then Franglais, instead of constantly of having a go at Boris put yourself in his shoes and with out the benefit of hindsight tell us what you would have done starting back in January. Tyneside
Dunno if I am “constantly having a go at Boris”?
Most of my post was a potted history of him.
If you find that a criticism by implication? Then I agree with you, serial liars are worthy of being criticised.
.
Can`t un-see from where we are now, can we? Everything I could say would be tinged with hindsight.
So,you are not prepared to give us the benefit of your wisdom on how you would have dealt with the problem but always have plenty to say about those in charge, remember you started the whole thread with the words Covid & Brexit!!
Tyneside