How quickly our liberty gets taken away

Funny is it not?

For what? Millions died during WW2 for liberty.
Yet thousands may die due to this virus and we lose more and more of our liberty daily.

And people are welcoming it and demanding more draconian measures to be introduced. People recording rule breakers and publically shaming them for going on walks or playing football.
We could of gone down the other route of isolating and protecting the old and vunerable but no it is everyone.

Just feels very 1984ish.
I fully expect to get ripped to shreds for this but not seen this view on this forum yet so might be well worth the debate. (until questioning government propaganda becomes illegal anyway )

People wonder why some never had a qualm about leading others to their certain awful deaths in concentration camps, you see the potential recruits in those asking, nay demanding, more losses of freedom.
The seeds are being being planted and amazingly welcomed by people who have never seen a police state but appear to want one.

To the old bill, who didn’t raise a finger against ■■■■■■■■■■ gangs in cities and watched on as looters ransacked shops in the last riots, their new powers will go to their heads quickly, powers they will want to keep once this is over, we are taking giant steps back to 1984.

Trump is right the cure is in danger of being worse than the disease.

adam277:
Funny is it not?

For what? Millions died during WW2 for liberty.
Yet thousands may die due to this virus and we lose more and more of our liberty daily.

And people are welcoming it and demanding more draconian measures to be introduced. People recording rule breakers and publically shaming them for going on walks on playing football.
We could of gone down the other route of isolating and protecting the old and vunerable but no it is everyone.

Just feels very 1984ish.
I fully expect to get ripped to shred for this but not seen this view on this forum yet so might be well worth the debate. (until questioning government propaganda becomes illegal anyway )

I don’t think you will,i suspect most of us have the intuition to realise this whole deal is a smokescreen to further nefarious agendas,5g,mandatory - implants (nano- size- in- the- vaccine) etc,etc.It’s been coming down the pike for decades.Vast numbers amongst us can’t deal with authentic liberty,despite what they say,they covertly love the chains that shackle them.Twas ever thus.

adam277,

Perhaps what you say was a possible strategy, it seems valid to consider. I’m sure there will be plenty analysis afterwards.

Just preparation for Brexit - it’s the 'Will Of The People’

Juddian:
Trump is right the cure is in danger of being worse than the disease.

Unfortunately, I agree with Trump.
Also I (did) go to college until a few weeks ago and I was literally seeing 18 year olds in gas masks.
I see drivers in gasmasks and surgical masks.
If your young and healthy you are not the ones at risk ffs.
You may spread the disease but your not going to die from it. (■■■■ off with showing me one case in which the odd healthy person died there will always be exceptions).

Is kinda amusing to see a 25 year old polish driver kitted out like they are about to perform surgery while he is standing next a british 77 year old HGV driver who could not give a rats ■■■ if he gets it or not though.

I absolutely agree. It is sickening to see people calling for these measures, only too happy to give up their freedom and rights.

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Benjamin Franklin.

Juddian:
People wonder why some never had a qualm about leading others to their certain awful deaths in concentration camps, you see the potential recruits in those asking, nay demanding, more losses of freedom.
The seeds are being being planted and amazingly welcomed by people who have never seen a police state but appear to want one.

To the old bill, who didn’t raise a finger against ■■■■■■■■■■ gangs in cities and watched on as looters ransacked shops in the last riots, their new powers will go to their heads quickly, powers they will want to keep once this is over, we are taking giant steps back to 1984.

Trump is right the cure is in danger of being worse than the disease.

“Aegrescit medendo”
It’s an idea that has seemingly been around for a while.

If your actions could lead to someone’s death then surely it’s not only your freedom of action/movement that’s on stake here, it’s also the other people’s lives? People wearing surgical masks wear them so they don’t infect others in case they’re asymptomatic (it takes 4-5 days for the virus to incubate and cause symptoms but an infected person can become contagious on day 2-3) It’s why SE Asian countries don’t really have this problem at least not as bad as the rest because wearing masks in public is common practice (dunno about China tbh but in Japan they do)

ETS:
If your actions could lead to someone’s death then surely it’s not only your freedom of action/movement that’s on stake here, it’s also the other people’s lives? People wearing surgical masks wear them so they don’t infect others in case they’re asymptomatic (it takes 4-5 days for the virus to incubate and cause symptoms but an infected person can become contagious on day 2-3) It’s why SE Asian countries don’t really have this problem at least not as bad as the rest because wearing masks in public is common practice (dunno about China tbh but in Japan they do)

So the narrative is " the needs of the few outweighs the needs of the many" ?

Must admit, there are quite a few actually enjoying this stuff…

The Hi-Viz brigade were out locally on Saturday barking instructions to capable adults to stand in line & go where it was very obvious [local shops opening for a few hours on Saturday for essentials]

On Friday I got a couple of new tyres fitted at my local “depot”, all very professional with zero barking of orders ect., but they were telling me that the Police had tried to close them down earlier as they were deemed “none essential” and should not be open

95% of their work is trucks & buses, which were still running last time I looked

Yes, in WW2 people died for our freedom but you seem to have forgotten the loss of freedoms in the country at the time. Curfews, no light sources visible, ID cards. All losses of freedom but necessary to save lives. Small sacrifices by the majority to save a minority of lives you may argue but to argue otherwise surely puts the value of your perceived freedoms above the lives of others, no?
Personally if I carried on as normal and suspected I’d infected an elderly relative or friend who died I’d find that difficult to live with. If any of you genuinely don’t give a ■■■■■ about others, fair enough, just try to mix with others of the same view.

Sent from my R19 using Tapatalk

adam277:
Funny is it not?

For what? Millions died during WW2 for liberty.
Yet thousands may die due to this virus and we lose more and more of our liberty daily.

And people are welcoming it and demanding more draconian measures to be introduced. People recording rule breakers and publically shaming them for going on walks or playing football.
We could of gone down the other route of isolating and protecting the old and vunerable but no it is everyone.

Just feels very 1984ish.
I fully expect to get ripped to shreds for this but not seen this view on this forum yet so might be well worth the debate. (until questioning government propaganda becomes illegal anyway )

Firstly let’s look at your first paragraph.
.
In WW2 UK plus Crown Colonies total war deaths 1939 to 1945 military and civilian were under 450,000.
If no actions are taken COVID 19 could take over 500,000 lives, most in under one year.
.
If we carry on with the actions started the number of victims can be greatly reduced.
.
…
Retired doctors and other medical professionals are being asked to come out if retirement ( these are older and more vulnerable remember) to help those who are ill.
And some here are moaning…about…

The sooner the UK goes on full lockdown like we have in NZ the better quite frankly!

We have had to leave our daughter behind in the UK, she has her own life, but we are extremely worried about her as she is immune compromised and on her own. My elderly parents, still in the UK, are doing the best they can to keep away from all the other idiots who seem happy to roam about wherever they like because they are fit and healthy, not giving a ■■■■ whether they are carriers or not, or whether they become part of the chain in spreading this virus.

So yes, I will rip you to shreds until you all fully understand the seriousness of this pandemic.

Both my partner and I are both considered essential workforce in NZ, at least she can work from home and look after our youngest. My employer has the most draconian hygiene standards anyway (being part of the food chain) but they are even stricter now, and so they bloody should be. In my working day I come into contact with many suppliers, all of whom are taking this very very seriously so I feel that a full lock down is the way to go, especially in countries like NZ or the UK where so much precedence is put on personal freedoms. If everyone plays their part instead of mingling then the spread can be stopped.

NZ are still having to tell tourists to stop travelling around the country, some of whom thought the lock down did not apply to them as they weren’t Kiwi!! NZ yesterday had its first Covid-19 related death, a woman in her 70s who rarely travelled, the connection? Tourists passing through her town.

Locally to us, a couple of bars are related to number of cases stemming from a St Patricks event, they are only just coming to light due to the incubation period. In the meantime, those persons affected prior to the lock down will have come into contact with countless other persons. God knows how many people, and then they could have then passed it on to many others, thus creating the snowball effect. Now, I am fully aware that this would still have happened as it was prior to lock down but it is a good example of why we need to, and must isolate from everyone else.

If you think a full lock down is too draconian then I suggest you put yourself in the shoes of those on the front line, who are crying out for more serious measures, then you might understand.

Nurses and doctors dying on the front line and some have issues just staying at home, I have no words…

Our Grandads and Dads went to war with their fellow countryman and others to fight for our liberty some never to return to their loved ones.Yet some are moaning about sitting at home in comfort moaning about losing their “liberty”.
Same old thing with some me me me I`m all right jack but the first to bleat when everything goes wrong.

I’m in agreement with you too, I think it’s a massive over reaction that will ruin this country and the rest of the world for years.
apple.news/A67SMBY7zQdy7Dx43LHuDDA

Franglais:

adam277:
Funny is it not?

For what? Millions died during WW2 for liberty.
Yet thousands may die due to this virus and we lose more and more of our liberty daily.

And people are welcoming it and demanding more draconian measures to be introduced. People recording rule breakers and publically shaming them for going on walks or playing football.
We could of gone down the other route of isolating and protecting the old and vunerable but no it is everyone.

Just feels very 1984ish.
I fully expect to get ripped to shreds for this but not seen this view on this forum yet so might be well worth the debate. (until questioning government propaganda becomes illegal anyway )

Firstly let’s look at your first paragraph.
.
In WW2 UK plus Crown Colonies total war deaths 1939 to 1945 military and civilian were under 450,000.
If no actions are taken COVID 19 could take over 500,000 lives, most in under one year.
.
If we carry on with the actions started the number of victims can be greatly reduced.
.
…
Retired doctors and other medical professionals are being asked to come out if retirement ( these are older and more vulnerable remember) to help those who are ill.
And some here are moaning…about…

There you go again, using words like “could” & “can” & “if”
All ambiguous statements purporting to be fact.

The impact from a complete collapse of infrastructure WILL kill many more people than a bad cold ever did.

The thing about freedoms and Rights is that they don’t exist in a vacuum. They go hand in hand with responsibilities, something so often ignored by so many.

I think it was an American commentator who summed it up nicely when they said freedom of speech does not give you the right to yell fire in the middle of a crowded theatre.

We wouldn’t need these restrictions to be enforced if it wasn’t for the bell ends who can’t see past their own personal rights in society to the bigger picture of their responsibilities towards that same society. These are the ones who engage in antisocial behavior. The ones who turn up at supermarkets with vans, to clear them out of bog roll. The ones who park their fleets of caravans and expensive 4x4’s on school playing fields.

These are the ones who have the attitude that they’re going to do whatever the ■■■■ they feel like, and ■■■■ everyone else because they’re all right Jack.

If it wasn’t for the pizz takers like these we wouldn’t need mandatory restrictions, because people would know what the sensible thing to do is, and would do it anyway.

If you’re going to complain about rights and freedoms being taken away, don’t just blame the politicians. Take a long hard look at fools who think it’s OK to have a BBQ in the park. Or go out buying things like mirrors, paint and lava lamps, as we’ve seen in the media.

Or even just look in a mirror, and ask if you’ve done anything stupid yourself.

Night-and-day:
I’m in agreement with you too, I think it’s a massive over reaction that will ruin this country and the rest of the world for years.
apple.news/A67SMBY7zQdy7Dx43LHuDDA

So well known millionaire Murdoch (and his well off employee Kavannah) agrees with millionaire Trump that those of us reliant upon the under resourced public health services, should ignore the risk to protect the existing economic status quo?
.
Shock!