Food for thought Brexiters

BREXIT is total rubbish, our wealth will be destroyed - Lord Davies of Stamford

youtube.com/watch?v=jJEMt8IZL3w

Concern over food safety as US seeks greater access to UK markets

US sets out aims for post-Brexit trade deal amid fears about chicken and beef standards

The US has outlined its objectives for a post-Brexit trade deal with the UK, demanding greater access to the food markets where products such as chlorinated chicken or hormone-fed beef are banned under EU rules.

The US laid out its aims for a trade deal to cut tariff and non-tariff barriers for US industrial and agricultural goods and reduce regulatory differences.

The Trump administration is seeking to eliminate or reduce barriers for US agricultural products and secure duty-free access for industrial goods.

The outline requirements were published [pdf] by the office of the US trade representative (USTR), headed by Robert Lighthizer, as required by Congress. The office said it was seeking “comprehensive market access for US agricultural goods in the UK”.

It was also looking to remove “unwarranted barriers” related to “sanitary and phytosanitary” standards in the farm industry, something that would put it at loggerheads with the UK environment secretary, Michael Gove, who has repeatedly said British food standards will remain the same if not be better than they currently are.

The US has long considered EU rules on food a barrier to trade and has said fears that its food is unsafe to eat because of differences in production rules – including use of pesticides, chlorine and hormones – were unjustified.

The National Farmers’ Union (NFU) said it was not surprised that the US would be pushing for a trade deal that accepted its production standards and practices.

The NFU president, Minette Batters, said: “It is imperative that any future trade deals, including a possible deal with the USA, do not allow the imports of food produced to lower standards than those required of British farmers.

“British people value and demand the high standards of animal welfare, environmental protection and food safety that our own farmers adhere to. These world-leading standards must not be sacrificed in the pursuit of reaching rushed trade deals.”

While the outline objectives are merely the opening gambit in trade talks, they indicate the many hurdles to the quick deal promised by Brexiters.

The Eurosceptic Jacob Rees-Mogg told Sky News the publication of the outline objectives was a “positive first step” to a deal with the US which would be “good for UK consumers as it would open markets to greater competition”.

He said: “It is encouraging that the US wants to move quickly and has made the first move before we have left.”

A change in food standards after Brexit would have ramifications for an open border in Ireland as it would fuel fears that banned goods could seep into the food chain through cross-border production of meat and dairy products.

Apart from differences of regulation in relation to the use of chlorine to wash chicken and the use of hormones in the rearing of cattle, US officials have also recently spoken about barriers in pork production.

Gove has held firm on his position that the UK would not compromise on food standards. He has in the past expressed concern about antibiotics used for livestock and bee-harming pesticides, neonicotinoids, used on grain that goes into breakfast cereals and other consumer foods.

The US is also seeking commitments from the UK to establish “state-of-the-art” rules to ensure cross-border data flows and not to impose customs duties on digital products.

It wants guarantees on currency as well, with rules to “ensure that the UK avoids manipulating exchange rates in order to prevent effective balance of payments adjustment or to gain an unfair competitive advantage”.

A Department for International Trade spokesperson said: “Negotiating an ambitious free-trade agreement with the US that maintains our high standards for businesses, workers and consumers is a priority.

“So we welcome the US government publishing their objectives, which demonstrates their commitment to beginning talks as soon as possible.

“As part of our open and transparent approach to negotiations, we will publish our own negotiating objectives in due course.”

theguardian.com/politics/20 … trade-deal

US firms seek changes to UK standards on beef and drugs

US lobby groups for agriculture and pharmaceutical firms want UK standards changed to be closer to those of the US in a post-Brexit trade deal.

The meat lobby wants the sale of growth hormone-fed beef, currently banned in the UK and EU, to be allowed in the UK.

The drugs company lobby wants changes to the NHS drugs approval process to allow it to buy more of US drugs.

They are also asking US officials - who will hold a hearing later - to seek lower tariffs on agricultural goods.

The farming groups say any deal should move away from EU standards, including rules governing genetically modified crops, antibiotics in meats, and pesticides and herbicides, such as glyphosate.

Technology groups are also setting out their wishlists for any pact. Companies in this sector are against the UK’s proposed digital tax.

The UK government has promised to look at ways of taxing US technology giants, such as Amazon and Google, which critics say do not pay their fair share of tax in the UK and therefore operate at an unfair advantage to physical companies.

‘Once-in-a-lifetime’ opportunity

The lobby groups’ priorities were outlined in more than 130 comments submitted to the office of the US Trade Representative.

The office solicited the feedback to help develop US goals as it prepares to start trade talks with the UK after Brexit.

It is hosting a hearing in Washington on Tuesday on the subject.

Brexit: US ambassador to UK warns on trade deal
Will a US-UK free trade deal ever happen?
US companies - especially in the agricultural sector - said they hoped the UK would prove more flexible than the EU.

UK negotiations could represent “a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity”, the National Grain and Feed Association and North American Export Grain Association wrote.

The groups said a new deal could create a trans-Atlantic market “that can act as a bastion against the EU’s precautionary advances and its ongoing aggressive attempts to spread its influence around the globe”.

Here is a summary of goals for key sectors:

Agriculture
US business groups from the agricultural sector have been among the most vocal, amounting to nearly a third of all comments.

The groups, which as well as meat, drug and technology firms include producers of olive oil, wine, nuts, fruit, and dairy products, say they want to see the UK reduce tariffs on food products. They also want to limit geographic labelling rules, such as those that bar US companies from using terms such as Prosecco.

The Animal Health Institute, which produces animal antibiotics, was among several groups that said it would not support a deal that did not address demands by the US agricultural sector.

“We have noted with concern statements by certain UK officials indicating a desire to exclude the agricultural sector from the negotiation and an intention of maintaining regulatory harmonisation with the European Union,” it said.

“Should the UK adopt such policies, we see little basis for the negotiation of a bilateral trade agreement.”

Health
The pharmaceutical industry is also gearing up for negotiations to start.

PhRMA, which represents drug makers in the US such as AbbVie Merck and Novartis, said it wanted a deal to address the barriers to access it currently faces in the UK, pointing to items such as government price controls.

It heavily criticised the current NHS drug approval system, pointing to the cap on the price of drugs as too restrictive, and highlighting insufficient healthcare budgets and “rigid” national processes.

The organisation, as well as some other groups, are also hoping to secure patent protections for certain types of drugs for at least 12 years, among other demands.

Technology
US firms also want to bar a proposed UK tax on digital services and prohibit rules requiring that data be stored locally.

Budget 2018: Who will pay the Digital Services Tax?
US attacks UK plan for digital services tax on tech giants
There is also widespread support to push the UK raise the amount that triggers customs duties from £135 closer to the US level of $800 - more than £600.

Such a move would make it easier for small businesses to export to the UK, said companies including e-commerce site Etsy.

Many of the demands in the tech sector also surfaced during negotiations of the trade agreement between the US, Mexico and Canada.

bbc.co.uk/news/business-47036119

I’ve heard all this “planes falling out of the sky” and “your car wont start in the morning” crap before. It’s the millennium bug all over again.

No one knows what’s going to happen post Brexit. Just like the predictions of the aftermath of “vote leave” winning showed, even the experts are lost.

What I will say though is that by leaving we’re not bound by the Lisbon treaty, something we SHOULD have had a referendum on. And that is a good thing.

Frankly, these ■■■■■■■■■ in power should stop telling us that we voted wrong and start doing their job of dealing what’s in front of them in the best way possible.

#vote leave #democracy lives on

Don’t be afraid of a little chlorine in your food, they put chlorine in swimming pools and you’ve seen how sparkling clean they are, just like your insides will be after a while. :laughing:

It’s fear mongering to the extreme.

Personally I couldn’t give a crap what’s in my beef as long as it’s safe and cheap.
Sick of UK supermarkets pushing free range crap that tastes exactly the same and costs twice as much anyway.

Also this is the only fact that matters.
UK life expectancy is about 80.
Us life expectancy is about 79.

So basically the same. Seems their meat can’t be that bad after all.
Also you have a choice…
If you still want the stupidly expensive hand reared grassed fed free range meat you can still buy it lol.

remy:
Don’t be afraid of a little chlorine in your food, they put chlorine in swimming pools and you’ve seen how sparkling clean they are, just like your insides will be after a while. :laughing:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Who lets this Tawt lose to post on here !!!
all he posts is Brexit scaremongering crap

blue estate:
Who lets this Tawt lose to post on here !!!
all he posts is Brexit scaremongering crap

You’re falling into the same MO. hkloss1 joined before the Brexit vote and has a point of view different to you & I. Doesn’t mean he can’t post stuff which he feels strongly about. Come to think of it isn’t your response rather similar to how many brexiteers see the EU response to views that don’t match the ones prescribed i.e. not worthy of consideration. :bulb:

The biggest problem we have with brexit is the arzewipes who won’t accept it, can’t accept it, and actively work to sabotage the process by sticking their oar in at every opportunity and running us down in the eyes of the world. We’d have a better chance if we all pulled in the same direction, but oh, no, the remainers have to constantly ■■■■, whinge and moan, creating a self fulfilling prophecy about how bad things are going to be. Even before negotiatons started they wanted the government to say publicly what their position and policies were FFS!

What’s coming is going to be bad. And a large lump of blame can be laid at the feet of the sabotaging remainers who will no doubt crow loudly that they told us so, while at the same time refusing to admit the damage they themselves have done.

Would this be the same fears over food standards that pressure groups were warning us over the TTIP that the EU were pushing before the referendum and will no doubt appear again under a new name as soon as they’re able and have a more pro EU president in the Whitehouse. Then what are you going to do to stop it?

You’re right the US agricultural lobby is powerful, more powerful than than the EU it would seem from TTIP, or more likely that the same type of politicians who are pushing for UK free trade deals are pushing for EU free trade deals that don’t benefit the people, but those who stand to make vast fortunes from free global trade.

WhiteTruckMan:
The biggest problem we had with EU membership is the arzewipes who won’t accept it, can’t accept it, and actively work to sabotage the process by sticking their oar in at every opportunity and running us down in the eyes of the world. (Image is important to we snowflakes) We’d have a better chance if we all pulled in the same direction, but oh, no, the leavers have to constantly ■■■■, whinge and moan, creating a self fulfilling prophecy about how bad things are going to be. Even before negotiatons started they wanted the government to say publicly what their position and policies were FFS! (we`re all for hidden government by dictate)

What’s coming is going to be bad. And a large lump of blame can be laid at the feet of the sabotaging leavers who will no doubt crow loudly that they told us so, while at the same time refusing to admit the damage they themselves have done.

Fixed that for you, mate. :smiley:

Franglais:

WhiteTruckMan:
The biggest problem we have with brexit is the arzewipes who won’t accept it, can’t accept it, and actively work to sabotage the process by sticking their oar in at every opportunity and running us down in the eyes of the world. We’d have a better chance if we all pulled in the same direction, but oh, no, the remainers have to constantly ■■■■, whinge and moan, creating a self fulfilling prophecy about how bad things are going to be. Even before negotiatons started they wanted the government to say publicly what their position and policies were FFS!

What’s coming is going to be bad. And a large lump of blame can be laid at the feet of the sabotaging remainers who will no doubt crow loudly that they told us so, while at the same time refusing to admit the damage they themselves have done.

Fixed that for you, mate. :smiley:

Unfixed.

The problems we had with EU membership are related to, but not the same as the problems we are having with Brexit.

Image (in the eyes of the world) IS important. Who is going to invest in a country that is constantly running itself down? If you don’t have confidence in yourself how do you expect others to do?

Hidden government by dictate? Seriously? Or are you the kind of person who lays all their cards on the table face up at the first opportunity? How would you feel if you sent someone to management to negotiate a payrise, they asked for £18 per hour only for someone else to chip in that you’d settle for £8.80 per hour and a packet of jammie dodgers to be shared out once per month?

It’s the remainers who are sabotaging the leave effort, not vice versa.

adam277:
It’s fear mongering to the extreme.

Personally I couldn’t give a crap what’s in my beef as long as it’s safe and cheap.
Sick of UK supermarkets pushing free range crap that tastes exactly the same and costs twice as much anyway.

Also this is the only fact that matters.
UK life expectancy is about 80.
Us life expectancy is about 79.

So basically the same. Seems their meat can’t be that bad after all.
Also you have a choice…
If you still want the stupidly expensive hand reared grassed fed free range meat you can still buy it lol.

I am similar but remember in the 80s/90s it was “safe” or at least not known to be unsafe to feed cows food made with recycled cow remains.

I am not saying chlorine chicken or GM foods are unsafe but I don’t think it’s been long enough to know they are safe

WhiteTruckMan:
The problems we had with EU membership are related to, but not the same as the problems we are having with Brexit.

Image (in the eyes of the world) IS important. Who is going to invest in a country that is constantly running itself down? If you don’t have confidence in yourself how do you expect others to do?

Hidden government by dictate? Seriously? Or are you the kind of person who lays all their cards on the table face up at the first opportunity? How would you feel if you sent someone to management to negotiate a payrise, they asked for £18 per hour only for someone else to chip in that you’d settle for £8.80 per hour and a packet of jammie dodgers to be shared out once per month?

It’s the remainers who are sabotaging the leave effort, not vice versa.

More seriously.
Image means little when the chips are down. We heard some leavers talking up Brexit a storm: “easiest trade negotiations in history”, “they need us more than we need them”, etc.
We now see the truth (lies) of all that bravado.
Negotiations, when the people we are negotiating with know nothing of us, are very different to the current Brexit negotiations. We have been in partnership with these people for decades: they KNOW exactly what cards we are holding. They know our industry and economic strengths and weaknesses inside out. How is bluff and bluster gonna work there? David Davies telling the EU how much they depend on us didn`t go too well did it?

Franglais:
More seriously.
Image means little when the chips are down. We heard some leavers talking up Brexit a storm: “easiest trade negotiations in history”, “they need us more than we need them”, etc.
We now see the truth (lies) of all that bravado.
Negotiations, when the people we are negotiating with know nothing of us, are very different to the current Brexit negotiations. We have been in partnership with these people for decades: they KNOW exactly what cards we are holding. They know our industry and economic strengths and weaknesses inside out. How is bluff and bluster gonna work there? David Davies telling the EU how much they depend on us didn`t go too well did it?

By image, I’m talking about the national image which can have a direct influence on the Business confidence index Leading indicators - Business confidence index (BCI) - OECD Data

You say they know nothing of us, yet in almost the same breath you go on to say they know our strengths and weaknesses inside out. Can you not see how contradictory that is?

They (the EU negotiators) will have a good idea of our position, but not what we will be prepared to settle for. And we have had a government and negotiators that seem to have consistently played to their strengths and ignored our own. We do indeed have weaknesses, as do they. But the remainer position seems to be one of shouting our vulnerabilities from the highest rooftop for all and sundry to hear and exploit, and take a perverse pleasure in doing so. Why is this? Do they really think so little of their own nation that they think it shouldn’t have the right to even exist as a separate entity in it’s own right? There’s an old saying that it’s better to be on the inside of the tent ■■■■■■■ out than on the outside of the tent ■■■■■■■ in. Well it seems like the remainers want to be inside the tent and still ■■■■ in!

WhiteTruckMan:

Franglais:
More seriously.
Image means little when the chips are down. We heard some leavers talking up Brexit a storm: “easiest trade negotiations in history”, “they need us more than we need them”, etc.
We now see the truth (lies) of all that bravado.
Negotiations, when the people we are negotiating with know nothing of us, are very different to the current Brexit negotiations. We have been in partnership with these people for decades: they KNOW exactly what cards we are holding. They know our industry and economic strengths and weaknesses inside out. How is bluff and bluster gonna work there? David Davies telling the EU how much they depend on us didn`t go too well did it?

By image, I’m talking about the national image which can have a direct influence on the Business confidence index Leading indicators - Business confidence index (BCI) - OECD Data

You say they know nothing of us, yet in almost the same breath you go on to say they know our strengths and weaknesses inside out. Can you not see how contradictory that is?

They (the EU negotiators) will have a good idea of our position, but not what we will be prepared to settle for. And we have had a government and negotiators that seem to have consistently played to their strengths and ignored our own. We do indeed have weaknesses, as do they. But the remainer position seems to be one of shouting our vulnerabilities from the highest rooftop for all and sundry to hear and exploit, and take a perverse pleasure in doing so. Why is this? Do they really think so little of their own nation that they think it shouldn’t have the right to even exist as a separate entity in it’s own right? There’s an old saying that it’s better to be on the inside of the tent ■■■■■■■ out than on the outside of the tent ■■■■■■■ in. Well it seems like the remainers want to be inside the tent and still ■■■■ in!

Maybe I was unclear, sorry.
I meant that putting up a front may work with strangers, who know little of us, but clearly after decades of co-operation, the EU does know all our strengths and weaknesses. Bluff, is a waste of time in the current talks.
And look at this:
voteleavetakecontrol.org/bri … wdeal.html
“There is a European Free Trade Zone and we will be part of it”

I partly agree with your tent analogy. We would be better in the tent with 27 other European countries, than left out in the cold on our own. And I don`t see any need to ■■■■ over anyone else.

I dont think any realistic projections have us effectively ending ties with our nearest, and biggest trading partners? Pre the referendum vote much of the talk was of a better deal with the EU. Now it is often of no-deal and similar nonsense that was not on the radar before the vote. Brexiteers talk of the EU changing the rules over time, but isnt that what the Brexiteers are doing? Taking their promises of an easy exit with lots of nice deals, and changing to threats of a hard Brexit?

BREXIT: "We face challenges from Moscow, Beijing & Washington - Why give up EU stability?

youtube.com/watch?v=X2VnNO4dmto

Good god you bought right into project fear ,You could do well buying gbp after postimg these negatives .That is what bankers are doing to make fortunes before we properly leave ,With the fear tactics wobbling poor investors .

Do you guys think forum posts will stop Brexit ?

This young guy is more clued up than most adults ,Take a look …

youtu.be/ReuatqKsCbk