My issue with the brexit deal

I know we have had a few on this already but thought I would add my 2 cents.

Firstly I’m glad that no one is seriously considering a second referendum now.

On Corbyn’s plan for Brexit. In essence he wants to stay in the custom union while leaving the EU.
This plan I like as a temporary measure. It ends free movement of people while keeping us aligned with EU rules thus no backstop needed.

I think this is the best option at the moment.

Mays plan I hate as the backstop is a huge problem for me. The reason people voted to leave the EU was partly due to Brussells imposing laws on us without fair representation. So what they want to do now is make it impossible for us to end the backstop by mutual agreement? I.e. Brussells and only them will decide when it’s okay to leave. This will give them such an unfair advantage when trying to negotiate further deals it’s insane.

So in essence I’m okay with a soft brexit like Corbyns if it leaves the door open for a harder brexit down the line.
I am against May’s Brexit as it’s completely unfair.

Also why is all the onus of blame being put on the UK politicians?
The EU have said they don’t want to negotiate anymore while the UK government has said it is willing to compromise.
The EU has already started ■■■■■■■ Ireland off by saying in the event of a no deal Ireland will have to put a border up while the UK has confirmed they will not implement a hard border.

Also I consider myself center right but I don’t understand why Corbyn is being given so much hate.
He has stuck to his guns on Europe and has not given in to the pressure from his own MPs. Ye he is a socialist but so what. HE is meant to be. Ever since Blair came to power the parties have been pretty much the same in truth Blair was probably more of a Tory then Cameron.
Labour should be all things socialist and Tories should be all things capitalist like it used to be before Blair.

For all you guys that still hate Jeremy Corbyn picture this. He gets ousted as leader of Labour and replaced by someone like David Miliband.
They make it party policy to scrap brexit and call another referendum. They will also probably have the numbers due to tory remainers, SNP and Lib dems.
Corbyn is taking a lot of crap at the moment but I think he the best person to lead labour at the moment even if it just means he stops someone worse coming in who wants to stop brexit.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46989586

Corbyn’s plan falls flat on its face by remaining in the customs union but expecting everything else (free movement etc) to cease.

That goes against the four principles of the EU which is something that has never been up for debate.

toonsy:
Corbyn’s plan falls flat on its face by remaining in the customs union but expecting everything else (free movement etc) to cease.

That goes against the four principles of the EU which is something that has never been up for debate.

I think they will allow it on a temporary basis.

As with most negotiations - unlikely both sides will get everything they want so the best possible deal for both sides is settled upon or no deal is reached

So now the Govt has a choice - except the deal or choose no deal

As a country we have gone through nearly 10 years of austerity because of the excessive borrowing of a previous Govt - If we let the previous in again will we have another 10 years of austerity again when they are gone :question:

ROG:
As a country we have gone through nearly 10 years of austerity because of the excessive borrowing of a previous Govt - If we let the previous in again will we have another 10 years of austerity again when they are gone :question:

Im not defending any particular Govs spending plans, but for the past ten years there has been a Global Recession.
Austerity isn`t just a UK problem.

Franglais:

ROG:
As a country we have gone through nearly 10 years of austerity because of the excessive borrowing of a previous Govt - If we let the previous in again will we have another 10 years of austerity again when they are gone :question:

Im not defending any particular Govs spending plans, but for the past ten years there has been a Global Recession.
Austerity isn`t just a UK problem.

No but if they’d not sold off everything (like our gold reserves at rock bottom prices) we’d have had at least a buffer.

I usually try to avoid politics on Trucknet but here’s a link to my tuppence worth on the possibility of No Deal which I wrote last week if anyone’s interested.

hingiwrote.home.blog/2019/01/20 … ssion=true

Farage made everyone want the referendum.
Cameron gave everyone a referendum. But quit because he didn’t get the result he wanted.
May had to deal with the fallout from it.
Rees-Mog and BoJo have just caused problems along the way.
Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser and doesn’t deserve to lead the country let alone have a voice on “Brexit”, god that’s a horrible word.

Article 50 didn’t need to be invoked, we could simply have left the EU straight after the referendum by revoking Article 49.

They insist the U.K. sort the Irish “border” where in essence they should be coming up with a solution also, seen as Eire is an EU member!

The sooner we leave, the better. The EU offers nothing more than somewhere to send BILLIONS each year, while we accept freedom of movement INTO the country, asset stripping and laws that hinder progression.

Re the Irish border shenanigans…

the maoster:
Re the Irish border shenanigans…

There may not be checkpoints manned by armed forces with guns but I’ve had enough delays getting into (and out of) Switzerland to confirm at least in my eyes that it’s anything but a frictionless border. And that’s with hundreds of bi-lateral agreements with the EU while we’ll - in a no deal scenario - be starting off with 0 (zero) bi-lateral agreements with anyone.

ROG:
As a country we have gone through nearly 10 years of austerity because of the excessive borrowing of a previous Govt - If we let the previous in again will we have another 10 years of austerity again when they are gone :question:

I think that you will find that the cause of the catastrophic global crash was unrestrained capitalism and nothing to do with socialism. Blair’s government was far to eager to allow the city free reign but Cameron and his cronies wanted even less regulation not more.

mardybum:
corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser and doesn’t deserve to lead the country let alone have a voice on “Brexit”, god that’s a horrible word.
.

Oh you forgot to call him worse then Hitler…
He is not a terrorist sympathiser Ffs.

toonsy:

the maoster:
Re the Irish border shenanigans…

There may not be checkpoints manned by armed forces with guns but I’ve had enough delays getting into (and out of) Switzerland to confirm at least in my eyes that it’s anything but a frictionless border. And that’s with hundreds of bi-lateral agreements with the EU while we’ll - in a no deal scenario - be starting off with 0 (zero) bi-lateral agreements with anyone.

Well said.

A hard border will only be necessary in case of a Hard Brexit. (i.e. no deals).
Switzerland is a signatory of the Schengen Agreemnet, the UK isnt. It is a member of EFTA. The Swiss Franc is pegged against the Euro. As Toonsy says, in spite of these agreements entering/leaving Swiss aint the fully automated, paperless, zero delay, wet-dream of some politicos with no experience of real life.

And the statement that Switzerland has 5 borders with the EU is also mistaken isnt it? Austria, France, Germany, Italy. Four. Lichtenstein isnt an EU member, but is in the EEA.

adam277:

mardybum:
corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser and doesn’t deserve to lead the country let alone have a voice on “Brexit”, god that’s a horrible word.
.

Oh you forgot to call him worse then Hitler…
He is not a terrorist sympathiser Ffs.

Here`s a link to a report on a study about bias in reporting:
independent.co.uk/news/uk/p … 40681.html

8 UK papers were studied and 75% of articles were inaccurate.
I find it more surprising that 52% of articles about him, didn`t mention his views!

Maybe Adam is too young but some of us remember the days of Michael Foot?
The level of political debate in the popular press was similar then: the Labour Partys aims were countered in press with criticism of Foots jacket and of his dress sense. No need for the press to address real issues so long as the sub-editors could think up a pun to go under a picture of a bloke in a “donkey jacket”.

the maoster:
Re the Irish border shenanigans…

It’s called the schengen area, which we could join but decided to opt out of from the EU. It’s also been a nation outside of the EU since forever, not flitting in and out which makes a very big difference. Also, I’m only counting 4 EU countries not 5, so whoever made it isn’t even capable of counting, let alone understanding politics.

This has all been a stunt from Cameron to win the UKIP votes in 2015 and it blew up in his face when leave won the referendum, which was never his plan. It’s an entirely self made mess based on decades of lies about the EU including that utter nonsense I just referred to. If it does go through, lives are going to get worse, not better. Previous grants the EU gave us will not only cease to exist, but government investment and funding will also be even more reduced from what it already is to make up the shortfall in GDP.

Guys, it was a picture stolen from interwebland, but let’s not let that get in the way of the increasingly frantic and hysteria laden drip drip drip from project fear shall we? This country wasn’t built by shrinking violets terrified of their own shadows, just what is it that you remoaners are in fact terrified about? Does the idea of standing proud really scare you so much? Better to die on your feet than live on your knees!

Discuss :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

DJC:

the maoster:
Re the Irish border shenanigans…

It’s called the schengen area, which we could join but decided to opt out of from the EU. It’s also been a nation outside of the EU since forever, not flitting in and out which makes a very big difference. Also, I’m only counting 4 EU countries not 5, so whoever made it isn’t even capable of counting, let alone understanding politics.

This has all been a stunt from Cameron to win the UKIP votes in 2015 and it blew up in his face when leave won the referendum, which was never his plan. It’s an entirely self made mess based on decades of lies about the EU including that utter nonsense I just referred to. If it does go through, lives are going to get worse, not better. Previous grants the EU gave us will not only cease to exist, but government investment and funding will also be even more reduced from what it already is to make up the shortfall in GDP.

Good link there to the lies told about the EU. Some of the stories reported were “laugh out loud”!
I did a quick look at the propagators of these “news articles”. Just randomly clicking to see where each story came from, and I stopped when I reached ten for one purveyor of untruths. Not pretending it is a proper survey of course, but if we were looking for the “usual suspects”, it may be familiar.

1st place with 10 false stories Daily Mail.
2nd The Sun, with 7.
3rd Daily Telegraph, with 5 articles.

the maoster:
Guys, it was a picture stolen from interwebland, but let’s not let that get in the way of the increasingly frantic and hysteria laden drip drip drip from project fear shall we? This country wasn’t built by shrinking violets terrified of their own shadows, just what is it that you remoaners are in fact terrified about? Does the idea of standing proud really scare you so much? Better to die on your feet than live on your knees!

Discuss :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

You got called out that your spreading of fake news was total rubbish, and you’re now trying to disassociate yourself from it by trivialising that it came from interwebland and trying to divert attention away from yourself and your political incompetence by targeting and belittling anyone who supports remain.

I’ll take your bait though, Britain isn’t the biggest bully in the room that makes the whole world quake in their boots, nobody is clamouring to get a trade deal with us. We’re an economy adapted to being within the EU, taking us out of that is a major change to how well our adapted businesses can function, big businesses with the capability to relocate are already escaping the oncoming catastrophe and it’s not even happened yet. Twin that with the already dire public spending, police forces slashed to the minimum and the uprising far right movement, I’m “terrified about” the entire country turning into one which idolises fascism and racism, all of it based on lies spread through the catalyst you trivialise and call interwebland.

DJC:
We’re an economy adapted to being within the EU, taking us out of that is a major change to how well our adapted businesses can function, big businesses with the capability to relocate are already escaping the oncoming catastrophe and it’s not even happened yet. Twin that with the already dire public spending, police forces slashed to the minimum and the uprising far right movement, I’m “terrified about” the entire country turning into one which idolises fascism and racism, all of it based on lies spread through the catalyst you trivialise and call interwebland.

We’ve seen what your idea of being ‘adapted’ means.A massive unsustainable trade deficit and an over supplied labour market and we pay hundreds of billions in net contributions for the privilege.Then you laughably contradict your own bs by correctly pointing out all the austerity that we have to inflict on ourselves to pay for it all since the late 1970’s.

As for idolising fascism the only fascism going on here is a bunch of neo bolsheviks trying to re create an EUSSR in our own back yard and who’s only real claim to being of the ‘left’ is in thinking that only they have the self appointed right to represent the working class.Good luck with that.Meanwhile the whole Brexit farce is now pointless and any self respecting Nationalist would have moved on to realising that this is a European fight and supporting remain on that basis.IE smash the stinking EU from within thereby curing the disease rather than trying do fix the localised UK soviet style vassal state symptom.