Has Brexit started the ball rolling?

After looking at the Italian Election results, are other European nationals thinking on the same lines as the British people now? Or is this a bit of a UKIP scenario?

theguardian.com/world/ng-in … berlusconi

Had a quick search for this “5 Star Party” and this is what I found, was going to post a link to Wikipedia, but it’s about a thousand pages long :smiley: :smiley:

independent.co.uk/news/world … 40096.html

Pierrot, serious question; as one who lives “over there” in Europe land what is your gut instinct on how your ordinary Frenchman/woman in the street feels about both Brexit and also Frances continuing membership of the EU. We often hear mutterings in the press about who’s going to jump ship next, if at all, so I’d be interested in the opinion of one who lives in mainland Europe.

Too little too late, only the Visegrad group of countries will survive and thrive in the long term in anything like their present recognisable form, the rest of western europe is sleep walking into the Swedish and German situations where despite the evidence before their very eyes, being the brainwashed mopes so many are they cannot think for themselves any longer nor open their blinkered eyes and rely on the govt of the day and the mainstream media to tell them what to think do and say.
Yes this includes Britain, we’re mincing into the same destructive social religious and cultural hell that is rearing its ugly head in cities over all western europe.

Oh there’s always pockets of us who won’t go meekly to their extinction (Kippers, 5 Stars, AFD, Marine le Pen’s party etc), but the vast majority of voters will either sell their votes as they have done for decades to whichever wide boy/girl/boygle promises they can have more of their own money or sells them a vision of utopia like that blair sales bod was so good at, millions of others will vote for anything other than corbyn, and millions more will vote for anything except the conservatives, which is pure irony because we haven’t had a conservative govt for some 30 years and there’s barely a handful in the entire house of commons.
I suspect most of the electorate have spent so long glued to the propaganda spewing forth 24/7 from the idiot box or the drivel spouted in the mainstream press, that they are almost incapable of independent thought.

I’ll make you a little prediction if i may.
Your grandchildren may one day be very glad that Bulgaria Poland etc refuse to be ordered about by petty semi jackbooted apparatchiks in the EU, nor will they submit to being invaded, because i fear that many of our grandkids may one day have to go live in those countries for their own safety and that of their children, i hope dearly that i am wrong.

The german reich once again attempting to lord it over europe, they couldn’t quite manage it with the jackboot and guns, this time with the economic blitzkrieg and enforced alien population adjustments, they may well succeed in the complete and ultimate destruction of western europe.

The silver lining on the black cloud is the EU (German ruled) is starting to threaten the USA with all this talk of import duties, so maybe the Germans didn’t learn their lessons last time, ie don’t ■■■■ the yanks off, especially when the yanks had the good sense to elect themselves a patriot President.

As for Brexit, the day the referendum vote was won for leave, my wife said we won’t be leaving in any meaningful way because ‘they’ won’t let us, and it’s increasingly likely she’s right, as usual.
Not sure we have enough ■■■■■■■■ between the men of the nation to rise up and take our country back, the yanks bless 'em are doing their best under a proper leader, we have one of our own waiting in the wings but there are devious forces against us being a true free nation again and they seem to be winning.

Maoster ,(as the saying goes) billion dollar question. When I talk to people, my workmates know that I was born and worked in England and in the routiers the other drivers realise that my French has an accent and ask where I’m from, when I say England I always get asked about “ze BREXIT” , “will it affect me, my feelings about it, good or bad”. The conversation turns and I ask them about what they think about it and quite a few think that France should maybe do the same, but they are not holding their breath, they can’t see a referendum on Europe ever happening here. (Maybe they should all go on strike :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: because that’s what they do when they’re P’d off )
Most people that I talk to , I would say 75%, hate the European parliament as they see it as being corrupt and a noose on their independence, these are some of the comments that I get "the money wasted, the control that Germany seems to have on everything, the regulations that affect their lives - their jobs - the French economy, they hate the fact that the poorer countries have been brought in and the rest are supporting them, I could go on. A lot think that England have probably done the right thing and maybe France should do the same and return to their independence, most people would definitely want to get out of the “Club” I think it went anti EEC here after the inclusion of the Eastern block countries to make it the club of 28,( sorry 27, England are leaving :slight_smile: )
I thought at the last election that LePenne would get the majority vote in the 2nd round of voting or maybe a hung decision after the preliminaries got rid of the Socialists and the Right, but the French decided on Macron and are now reaping what they have sowed, but that’s another discussion I think :slight_smile:

er France did have a referendum in 2005 on the European Constitution, they voted no by some 55%.
Their vote was ignored, as was the Dutch vote, the bill repackaged as the Lisbon Treaty.
The Irish also voted no and they too had to vote again.

The EU is yet another dictatorship by germany of europe, it’s been steadily gaining more power as freedom of speech is eroded to stifle dissidents (their carreers destroyed and their livelihoods ruined, they know how to shut people up), once it gets its own european army, they will be the ones sent in to quell dissent, watch it unfold from the comfort of your own home (before ‘they’ decide its too big for you and someone from some Godforsaken dump is moved in due to their greater need) but don’t expect coverage on the BBC or any other state propaganda machine, find alternative sources of information and see whats really going on.

I don’t think Brexit started a ball rolling, but was just more evidence of the general dissatisfaction and detachment that ordinary people have for the established mainstream politics and poltical leaders that seem to be in a club which is more interested in the rich and powerful than those that actually voted for them.

I think the tipping point was the financial collapse and the fallout from it, where ordinary people lost jobs, businesses and houses and have faced years of austerity and those in the financial industry seem to have got away without punishment and in fact got richer, add to that years of foreign wars followed by the rise of Islamic terrorism and then a migrant crisis, which all seems related to the decision to go to war in Iraq, promoted by the biggest fake news story of the century so far WMD’s.

I believe the 5 Star Movements anti EU stance is being overplayed by the British press, as last year their MEP’s wanted to leave Farages EFDD group in the European parliment and join Verhofstadt’s ALDE group, but were still to far apart on various EU issues for it to happen. I think in most EU countires Euroskeptic doesn’t mean Anti EU as it seems to be in the UK, but means a desire for less intergration and centralised power.

Muckles, what I meant was because of Brexit as you have posted created

more evidence of the general dissatisfaction and detachment that ordinary people have for the established mainstream politics and poltical leaders that seem to be in a club which is more interested in the rich and powerful than those that actually voted for them.

Juddian, sometimes I find your posts too complicated, I often agree with you but this time ■■? English please, or if you’re that good French :slight_smile:

edit: you’re first post not the 2nd

pierrot 14:
Muckles, what I meant was because of Brexit as you have posted created

more evidence of the general dissatisfaction and detachment that ordinary people have for the established mainstream politics and poltical leaders that seem to be in a club which is more interested in the rich and powerful than those that actually voted for them.

Not quite sure what you’re getting at, I said I don’t think Brexit started the ball rolling, but is a symptom of a bigger problem, which is the one you’ve quoted.

I find my posts too complicated too :open_mouth: , and i write the buggers as they flow through what roughly passes for my mind.

Off to bed now cos early start (and boy do i need my beauty sleep :blush: ) but i’ll see about a short summary of why western europe is on the edge of complete destruction tomorrow…its not easy or safe for one’s liberty to speak plainly in western countries any longer, hence the need for some hints, freedom of speech vanished in Britain over the lest 15 years and no one noticed, they will when they realise it’s a ratchet and silly old duffers dissidents like me arn’t the censors only target :unamused:

Your English is a hell of a lot better than mine, my French came to a shuddering halt at O-Levels :cry:

Pierrot, thanks for that. It affirms what I suspect in as much as your average man in the street is extremely disillusioned with what they perceive to be going on under their noses. The powers that be better hope that we the masses don’t find a rallying point in the shape of oh I don’t know, an Austrian housepainter perhaps to get behind.

Juddian:
er France did have a referendum in 2005 on the European Constitution, they voted no by some 55%.
Their vote was ignored, as was the Dutch vote, the bill repackaged as the Lisbon Treaty.
The Irish also voted no and they too had to vote again.

The EU is yet another dictatorship by germany of europe, it’s been steadily gaining more power as freedom of speech is eroded to stifle dissidents (their carreers destroyed and their livelihoods ruined, they know how to shut people up), once it gets its own european army, they will be the ones sent in to quell dissent, watch it unfold from the comfort of your own home (before ‘they’ decide its too big for you and someone from some Godforsaken dump is moved in due to their greater need) but don’t expect coverage on the BBC or any other state propaganda machine, find alternative sources of information and see whats really going on.

Maybe, the way I see you portray it, there should be a European civil war,!!, by the people against the men/women at the top, against those that are reaping the rewards whilst the workers are …er… poor. But it will never happen, except by the vote !!
France had a revolution some years ago you might remember , all the aristocrats were eliminated by the people of the country to make it a free France, " Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité " , ( liberty,equality,brotherhood ) remember? And where are the French now? No rich royalty, Madame Guillotine sorted them out, now we have a new Nouveau Riche that French people and the rest of Europeans have to bow down to… the European parliament, it probably will never happen, but this is what needs to be eliminated or at least controlled.

I feel that if we swim and not sink after Brexit several others will start the process of leaving the EU .
A catalyst could very well be the EU budget shortfall that is very real after Brexit .
Even one of the German MEPs has been very blunt with the EU commisioners over their lack of action on the triggers of our and others dissatisfaction which led to our referendum.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Juddian:
The silver lining on the black cloud is the EU (German ruled) is starting to threaten the USA with all this talk of import duties, so maybe the Germans didn’t learn their lessons last time, ie don’t ■■■■ the yanks off, especially when the yanks had the good sense to elect themselves a patriot President.

Don’t be under any illusions that we’re not in this situation in large part because of the Federalist ideology which hijacked the Confederal US constitution eventually by force.Then wanting to export that ideology to Europe in the form of a USE and seeing a free seperate nation states Europe as a domestic threat to the domestic status quo imposed by Lincoln.

Make no mistake the office of US president,let alone any supposed US foreign policy in support of Brexit and the idea of secession and self determination of the nation state,are a conflict of interest and a contradiction regards the US Federal government system.On that note I don’t think that Trump can be trusted any more than the Cons including Mogg in that regard.In that this is an ideological argument between anti Federalism v Federalism in which Trump and the Cons are,by definition,on the Federalist ( Unionist ) side not the Nationalist one.

While this shows the difference between a true Nationalist Patriot v presidential Federalist.In all cases we are all dealing with an ideological abhorrence of secession,on the part of the establishment of which Trump is unfortunately a part.

texasnationalist.com/decide

Juddian:
Too little too late, only the Visegrad group of countries will survive and thrive in the long term in anything like their present recognisable form, the rest of western europe is sleep walking into the Swedish and German situations where despite the evidence before their very eyes, being the brainwashed mopes so many are they cannot think for themselves any longer nor open their blinkered eyes and rely on the govt of the day and the mainstream media to tell them what to think do and say.
Yes this includes Britain, we’re mincing into the same destructive social religious and cultural hell that is rearing its ugly head in cities over all western europe.

Oh there’s always pockets of us who won’t go meekly to their extinction (Kippers, 5 Stars, AFD, Marine le Pen’s party etc), but the vast majority of voters will either sell their votes as they have done for decades to whichever wide boy/girl/boygle promises they can have more of their own money or sells them a vision of utopia like that blair sales bod was so good at, millions of others will vote for anything other than corbyn, and millions more will vote for anything except the conservatives, which is pure irony because we haven’t had a conservative govt for some 30 years and there’s barely a handful in the entire house of commons.
I suspect most of the electorate have spent so long glued to the propaganda spewing forth 24/7 from the idiot box or the drivel spouted in the mainstream press, that they are almost incapable of independent thought.

I’ll make you a little prediction if i may.
Your grandchildren may one day be very glad that Bulgaria Poland etc refuse to be ordered about by petty semi jackbooted apparatchiks in the EU, nor will they submit to being invaded, because i fear that many of our grandkids may one day have to go live in those countries for their own safety and that of their children, i hope dearly that i am wrong.

The german reich once again attempting to lord it over europe, they couldn’t quite manage it with the jackboot and guns, this time with the economic blitzkrieg and enforced alien population adjustments, they may well succeed in the complete and ultimate destruction of western europe.

The silver lining on the black cloud is the EU (German ruled) is starting to threaten the USA with all this talk of import duties, so maybe the Germans didn’t learn their lessons last time, ie don’t ■■■■ the yanks off, especially when the yanks had the good sense to elect themselves a patriot President.

As for Brexit, the day the referendum vote was won for leave, my wife said we won’t be leaving in any meaningful way because ‘they’ won’t let us, and it’s increasingly likely she’s right, as usual.
Not sure we have enough ■■■■■■■■ between the men of the nation to rise up and take our country back, the yanks bless 'em are doing their best under a proper leader, we have one of our own waiting in the wings but there are devious forces against us being a true free nation again and they seem to be winning.

I keep coming back to this, I have read it three times now and I simply cannot believe that I am of exactly the same opinion, I really could not have put it better myself.
Now that suggests to me that there are people who are better placed to do something about it, but they don`t, because they are making financial gain for not doing so.

I am jumping ship, as the rats have made it far too crowded for my liking and the peace & tranquillity, along with basic manners and to some degree, human decency have become rare qualities these days, for me we are very much at the bottom, I realise there are more depths that will be plumbed and I want to be in a very different place when that happens.

When you have lost all faith in those that should be trustworthy, when you have lost all faith and camaraderie with your fellow man and when you realise that you cannot change anything and are having difficulty accepting it, then it is the time to leave.

I’m convinced you need a wider palette of information to address your despair.Ignore the cretins who’s default…“conspiracy theorist” retorts to anything that takes them from their tv hypnotised comfort zone…it’s very painful to declare personal autonomy in this age of corporate media,they’ve taken a giant gamble with the web but I think the utter ego based crassness that passes for the modern age will ensnare the masses who see their lives as a personal movie show,and there they will languish in that very web to be drained of their essences by the zio masonic forces that call the shots today alas.
May I recommend_ Freehuman (humans are free.com) and Waking times as a starting point,assuming your not walking that road already.Information from enlightened fellow humans is the antidote to start seeing the woods despite the trees.The situation as it stands today geopolitically is designed to demoralize us,thats the plan,those Tavistock phd,s know what they’re doing,it all interlinks with their gameplan
to create a new world order,of hive minded worker bees,think North Korea as the perfect template.
Drink lustilyfrom the foaming goblet of information that’s out their at present,ever evolving via cross_ referencing and you will start to see,intuit why things really are as bad as they seem.Precisely their intention.

Juddian:
The german reich once again attempting to lord it over europe, they couldn’t quite manage it with the jackboot and guns, this time with the economic blitzkrieg and enforced alien population adjustments, they may well succeed in the complete and ultimate destruction of western europe.

:laughing:

If only this were true. There is plenty of disgruntlement amongst the German working class about their situation and the current state of the EU rules.

The silver lining on the black cloud is the EU (German ruled) is starting to threaten the USA with all this talk of import duties, so maybe the Germans didn’t learn their lessons last time, ie don’t ■■■■ the yanks off, especially when the yanks had the good sense to elect themselves a patriot President.

If I’m not mistaken, it is Trump himself that began the talk of import duties! And although the British steel industry is not what it was in the 1970s, we stand to lose out as much from Trump’s mooted tariffs as Germany does. Or is Trump your daddy, beyond criticism? :laughing:

Rjan:
If I’m not mistaken, it is Trump himself that began the talk of import duties! And although the British steel industry is not what it was in the 1970s, we stand to lose out as much from Trump’s mooted tariffs as Germany does. Or is Trump your daddy, beyond criticism? :laughing:

No surprise you’re all for free markets when it suits you. :unamused:

It’s actually American workers who’ve rightly voted in Trump in the hope that he’ll do something about the one sided trading relationship between Europe among others and the US.Europe in this case being all about the interests of Germany and Brits actually being on the same side as US workers in that regard.

Germans don’t buy UK or US products but the Germans expect to have carte blanche to flood the markets of UK and America with German products with trade figures proving the scam.On that note it’s a lot easier for Americans to buy Mercedes and BMW’s in the US for example than it is for us to buy US cars with bs EU type approval and tariff and quota barriers put up against them.While it’s not much good us expecting to sell our products to Americans if Americans don’t have jobs to afford to buy them because their industry has been wiped out by too many imports.

Carryfast:

Rjan:
If I’m not mistaken, it is Trump himself that began the talk of import duties! And although the British steel industry is not what it was in the 1970s, we stand to lose out as much from Trump’s mooted tariffs as Germany does. Or is Trump your daddy, beyond criticism? :laughing:

No surprise you’re all for free markets when it suits you. :unamused:

I don’t have to accept his premises to point out that he’s contradicting them, unless his real argument is that US steelworkers are having a hard time and that UK steelworkers can afford to take a haircut to share the burden and redress our obvious privilege against the long-suffering US worker and the spare-a-dime US economy.

It’s actually American workers who’ve rightly voted in Trump in the hope that he’ll do something about the one sided trading relationship between Europe among others and the US.Europe in this case being all about the interests of Germany and Brits actually being on the same side as US workers in that regard.

The US is on it’s own side, singularly. The reason it is contemplating tariffs is because of China, not Germany, and the reason it’s running a huge trade deficit and has seen it’s manufacturing capacity shrivel, is precisely because it’s preferred to wage class war against US workers for the past 40 years, whilst offshoring a huge chunk of its jobs and industry to China and running a huge trade deficit with them.

And because the Chinese are not fools and use their state to manage the economy strategically - and in a manner that is clearly and steadily bettering their citizens and society every single year - that’s why the US is left with a problem. It has spent 40 years participating in the rapid betterment of the Chinese worker, to enable it to wage war against it’s own workers and privilege the interest of American capital and profit (which continues to gain spectacularly from the arrangements, which is why the Republicans are up in arms at Trump’s tariff proposals).

And to be clear, I’m not against a system of tariffs in principle. What is dangerous is when the working class fail to confront the rich or locate the problem in other nations rather than the class war that the rich are waging, and an entire set of nations then turn to ■■■-for-tat and beggar-thy-neighbour tariffs, which simply then hit the workers in every nation (because the rich, still unconfronted, are in a position to ensure profits are protected and that workers shoulder the economic costs of a tariff war).

Germans don’t buy UK or US products but the Germans expect to have carte blanche to flood the markets of UK and America with German products with trade figures proving the scam.On that note it’s a lot easier for Americans to buy Mercedes and BMW’s in the US for example than it is for us to buy US cars with bs EU type approval and tariff and quota barriers put up against them.While it’s not much good us expecting to sell our products to Americans if Americans don’t have jobs to afford to buy them because their industry has been wiped out by too many imports.

Indeed, but why is it our fault that Europe has safe, efficient cars that comply with standards? Thus, our cars can be sold over there, whereas their gas-guzzling junk finds little market over here. That’s aside from the fact that the US internal market is comparable in size to the entire EU, and the US is very much more car-centric, and with that marketplace entirely under the control of the US government, it’s not as though their carmakers are being starved out. By any logic, the fact that the EU has higher standards (which are presumably costly for us to comply with), ought to put us at a disadvantage in selling cars in the US, all other things being equal.

Also, they already have the political freedom that the right-wing Brexiteers claim Europe has taken from us, and yet their workers have done even worse than those in Europe in the past 40 years (unless you’re the type that likes to work long hours for low pay) - simply because, as a nation, they subscribe even more slavishly to the principle of free markets, and as the Soviet ideological threat has receded the American state no longer has to demonstrate to its workers that capitalism is superior.

The US remains the most powerful nation on Earth, with the wealthiest economy in the world, rich in all the natural resources it requires, and it’s problems are decisively of its own making.

Sick of hearing about Brexit now,everyday there is some presenter rabbiting on about it,wish i’d never bothered voting out now

truckman020:
Sick of hearing about Brexit now,everyday there is some presenter rabbiting on about it,wish i’d never bothered voting out now

Now come on truckman stick with it,these things are never short term affairs. I just sit back and keep nodding at whoever has something to say. At the end of the day it’s just down to opinions. Not all common sense. That’s surely why they are making it as difficult as possible to leave,the domino effect,the Germans know all about that. Dig in man the sun will shine again. Mike. :smiley: