Carryfast:
Rjan:
[…]Firstly it’s clear that Starmer is going for the continuation of free movement of Labour not the ending of it.While Corbyn has obviously made no attempt to change that position.Nor does it answer the ideological question of the contradiction between anti Nation State Socialism but you then going for what is clearly a Nationalist protectionist economic policy that’s clearly all about using our National Sovereignty and borders to do it.In which case you won’t find anyone better to deliver that than Hoey and you definitely wouldn’t be going with Starmer to deliver that.IE It’s you who’s got all the contradictions within your ideology here no one else.In that we know what May stands for and we know what Callaghan stood for and what Blair stood for.
It’s like I’ve said before, there is no inherent contradiction between protectionism and socialist principles, any more so than there is contradiction between the closed shop and socialist principles, provided they are used to promote inter-group fairness, and not to promote undue in-group favour or as a platform for workers to battle each other.
Bear in mind I don’t argue from an anti-EU perspective, I argue from an anti-market perspective. The Remain camp is infested with Blairites who want simply to maintain the pro-market status quo and don’t give a hoot about democratic reform of the EU, and now that there is a clear left-wing Brexit alternative under Corbyn and the country is swinging behind him, I’ve come around to supporting it decisively.
It’s now time for Labour to have that light bulb moment when it realises that Nationalist doesn’t mean ■■■■ nor Neo Con.With you yourself having clearly now gone for a Nationalist,not an anti Nation State,solution by definition ‘British’ meaning within these borders and not the EU which you’ve finally seen is a dead duck.IE Nationalism means protectionism which is good ( Benn,Heffer,Shore,Hoey ).Wile anti nation state Socialism ( Callaghan,Jenkins and whatever it is that Blair and what Starmer are obviously all about ) = bad.No contradictions there whatsoever.In that Corbyn has to abandon Socialism in favour of Nationalism to make even what you’ve described in the form of Nationalist lite,work.
I’ve shown before that your version of nationalism is utter nonsense and not at all in the democratic or solidaristic tradition of any of the strands of Labour. I’m not at all against the EU - I’d happily be a citizen of a European nation. The point is that EU must be democratic, it must submit the economy to adequate democratic controls and demands, and it must subordinate or purge market forces as necessary to further the public interest, and since it does not and is unlikely to reform in the short term, I can support withdrawing for the time being - not least because our leaving for such reasons may encourage embolden the working class in other nations to make the same demands with the ultimate menace of more exits, and thereby break the camel’s back and provoke reform in the long term and produce an organsation to which we can later re-subscribe (or else fracture and smash an unreformable organisation before it gains further power).
It’s like I say, what has persuaded me of this is that the Remain camp is infested with Blairites, many of whom are more hostile to Corbyn than they are to Brexit, and on the other side of the coin it is apparent that most of the working class Brexiteers share Corbyn’s view on the matter - not racist, not nationalist, not silly issues of passport colours or free-trade fantasy land, but purely about the class issues in this country of work, wages, and the right of workers to have a say on economic policy through the ballot box - and for that reason I’d rather be on the side of the working class than on the side of the Blairites.
My bet being that he can’t do that because his Socialist principles,like yours,are too strong to let them go.Which explains why Starmer is still in the job of Shadow Brexit minister,not Hoey,for just one example of the contradiction in your case and it’s also why we ended up with Callaghan as leader of the Labour Party not Benn,let alone Shore.Also bearing in mind that there’s no way that the EU will allow us to cherry pick between the single EU market and maintaining sovereignty.
I agree, the single market cannot be reconciled with democratic control by workers at the ballot box, and so long as there is wide support for leaving the single market, then we should do so.
While what’s so important about the single market anyway when it actually goes against all of the ideas,on stopping the free movement of Labour and the controls over domestic strategic industries and who invests in them and who benefits from them,which you’re now saying that you want.Having said previously that you don’t want a situation in which we put our own national interests first.
No, I couldn’t give a hoot about national interests. My position is that in Britain we put workers’ interests first, and a left-wing Brexit will do so.