Guy Martin vs Robot car. I know, robot cars, yaawwwn

This Sunday ch4 9pm I think

channel4.com/programmes/guy- … -robot-car

One to give Damon palpitations of excitement I daresay. The subject has been done to death on here but since gets talked about also means people are interested so thought worth mentioning. Personally I’m braced that even “petrolhead” Guy Martin will be partisan to his paycheque and come away singing the praises. I just know any of the output on the box is going to be ramming this down our throats as is common with this subject. They’re hardly going to make a program where the presenter says - they’re boring liberalist dullard boxes leading humanity one step closer to being unable to wipe our own backsides - now are they

I love watching the fella FD. Just last night I watched the WW 1 tank replica episode for remembrance day.

Comes across as a knowledgeable and enthusiastic chap who would be far happier helping you repair your wagon, rather than swill champagne and rub shoulders with ’ celebrities '.

The biggest smile I’ve seen from him is when he starts up his RR Merlin engine

independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho … 63506.html

I assume you’ve never read an interview with Guy Martin if you think he only interested in Internal combustion vehicles and old engineering.

You also don’t understand Lucas Di Grassi’s rather maybe strange logic for pushing the autonomous racing car.

Also these cars have been in development for about 2 years, but unlike road cars they are working in a controlled environment so don’t need as many check systems to function, in fact a few mishaps will make the racing more interesting.

Like horse racing didn’t disappear when the car was invented, I doubt these will take over from the driven racing car, but are an interesting exercise.

muckles:
I assume you’ve never read an interview with Guy Martin if you think he only interested in Internal combustion vehicles and old engineering.

You also don’t understand Lucas Di Grassi’s rather maybe strange logic for pushing the autonomous racing car.

Also these cars have been in development for about 2 years, but unlike road cars they are working in a controlled environment so don’t need as many check systems to function, in fact a few mishaps will make the racing more interesting.

Like horse racing didn’t disappear when the car was invented, I doubt these will take over from the driven racing car, but are an interesting exercise.

Yeah alright . I like poking people on this as I can’t stand the idea of robotic cars myself.

I have actually. I’ve got two of his books . I quite like him myself. I stand by my comment that a tv program is hardly going to put out a damp squib on such a topic. But we’ll never know will we, what someone’s own thoughts are? And if they’re indeed genuine. Just have to presuuuume. He might genuinely like robot vehicles and robot this and that.

He seems an individual who finds that the visceral value of ones life - the human priveldge of being alive - is given such value by the stark relief of feeling the gloved hand of risk on ones human shoulder. Therefore I’d be suprised him failing to take a step back from the temptation to look at autonomy as it is now, and question the wider sociological and ethical trajectory of autonomy and the anaesthetic effects on human self responsibility. He is a questioning individual. But who knows

Interesting you mention “old internal combustion engines and old engineering”. That does seem the polar view. "One dislikes the current avenue being presumed, say - robotics, therefore one must prefer “old engineering”. Mm, really?? Think about that. Who says? robotics are the only way forward? Mankinds technological advances commonly bounce into the world with us little humans full of self fanfare and congratulation, but we aren’t very good at perceiving alternative paths once the genie is out the bottle. On more than one occasion we’ve trodden the difficult path backwards after a supposed step forward has been seen as taking the lane to a 5 bar Gate. The atomic weapon. Not the best of inventions.

I’ve not heard of Lucas di Grassi, so I’ve no exposure to his logic to misunderstand it.

Edit/ “damp squib” not “damp squid”

eagerbeaver:
I love watching the fella FD. Just last night I watched the WW 1 tank replica episode for remembrance day.

Comes across as a knowledgeable and enthusiastic chap who would be far happier helping you repair your wagon, rather than swill champagne and rub shoulders with ’ celebrities '.

The biggest smile I’ve seen from him is when he starts up his RR Merlin engine

No it’s ok I like him too mate

Freight Dog:

muckles:
I assume you’ve never read an interview with Guy Martin if you think he only interested in Internal combustion vehicles and old engineering.

You also don’t understand Lucas Di Grassi’s rather maybe strange logic for pushing the autonomous racing car.

Also these cars have been in development for about 2 years, but unlike road cars they are working in a controlled environment so don’t need as many check systems to function, in fact a few mishaps will make the racing more interesting.

Like horse racing didn’t disappear when the car was invented, I doubt these will take over from the driven racing car, but are an interesting exercise.

Yeah alright . I like poking people on this as I can’t stand the idea of robotic cars myself.

I have actually. I’ve got two of his books . I quite like him myself. I stand by my comment that a tv program is hardly going to put out a damp squid on such a topic. But we’ll never know will we, what someone’s own thoughts? And if they’re indeed genuine? Just have to presuuuume. He might genuinely like robot vehicles and robot this and that.

He seems an individual who finds that the visceral value of ones life - the human priveldge of being alive - is given such value by the stark relief of feeling the gloved hand of risk on ones human shoulder. Therefore I’d be suprised him failing to take a step back fromth autonomy and question the wider sociological and ethical trajectory of autonomy and the anaesthetic effects on human self responsibility. He is a questioning individual. But who knows

I’ve not heard of Lucas di Grassi, so I’ve no exposure to his logic to misunderstand it.

I like him and no doubt he has quite a complex view on autonomous vehicles, as he is a very complex person, the type of person the media can’t really pigeon hole and he’s been very clever at keeping them at arms length, however he is very into new technology as well as having a great respect for engineering and engineers of yesteryear.

I liked the tank program and the one where he part of the Williams team and took part in a pit stop during the Spa GP.

Lucas di Grassi is the racing driver behind the Roborace concept, his idea is that they can test all the traction aids etc on the roborace cars and let racing drivers race proper cars without all the drivers aids the manufactures want to include to develop them for road cars.

eagerbeaver:
I love watching the fella FD. Just last night I watched the WW 1 tank replica episode for remembrance day.

Comes across as a knowledgeable and enthusiastic chap who would be far happier helping you repair your wagon, rather than swill champagne and rub shoulders with ’ celebrities '.

The biggest smile I’ve seen from him is when he starts up his RR Merlin engine

Saw that on sat tv. The engineering that went into the main body was unbelieveable JCB had that replica down to a tee, including all those rivets.

muckles:

Freight Dog:

muckles:
I assume you’ve never read an interview with Guy Martin if you think he only interested in Internal combustion vehicles and old engineering.

You also don’t understand Lucas Di Grassi’s rather maybe strange logic for pushing the autonomous racing car.

Also these cars have been in development for about 2 years, but unlike road cars they are working in a controlled environment so don’t need as many check systems to function, in fact a few mishaps will make the racing more interesting.

Like horse racing didn’t disappear when the car was invented, I doubt these will take over from the driven racing car, but are an interesting exercise.

Yeah alright . I like poking people on this as I can’t stand the idea of robotic cars myself.

I have actually. I’ve got two of his books . I quite like him myself. I stand by my comment that a tv program is hardly going to put out a damp squid on such a topic. But we’ll never know will we, what someone’s own thoughts? And if they’re indeed genuine? Just have to presuuuume. He might genuinely like robot vehicles and robot this and that.

He seems an individual who finds that the visceral value of ones life - the human priveldge of being alive - is given such value by the stark relief of feeling the gloved hand of risk on ones human shoulder. Therefore I’d be suprised him failing to take a step back fromth autonomy and question the wider sociological and ethical trajectory of autonomy and the anaesthetic effects on human self responsibility. He is a questioning individual. But who knows

I’ve not heard of Lucas di Grassi, so I’ve no exposure to his logic to misunderstand it.

I like him and no doubt he has quite a complex view on autonomous vehicles, as he is a very complex person, the type of person the media can’t really pigeon hole and he’s been very clever at keeping them at arms length, however he is very into new technology as well as having a great respect for engineering and engineers of yesteryear.

I liked the tank program and the one where he part of the Williams team and took part in a pit stop during the Spa GP.

Lucas di Grassi is the racing driver behind the Roborace concept, his idea is that they can test all the traction aids etc on the roborace cars and let racing drivers race proper cars without all the drivers aids the manufactures want to include to develop them for road cars.

I’ll have to check out the Lucas Di Grassi concept. Sounds interesting

Freight Dog:

muckles:

Freight Dog:

muckles:
I assume you’ve never read an interview with Guy Martin if you think he only interested in Internal combustion vehicles and old engineering.

You also don’t understand Lucas Di Grassi’s rather maybe strange logic for pushing the autonomous racing car.

Also these cars have been in development for about 2 years, but unlike road cars they are working in a controlled environment so don’t need as many check systems to function, in fact a few mishaps will make the racing more interesting.

Like horse racing didn’t disappear when the car was invented, I doubt these will take over from the driven racing car, but are an interesting exercise.

Yeah alright . I like poking people on this as I can’t stand the idea of robotic cars myself.

I have actually. I’ve got two of his books . I quite like him myself. I stand by my comment that a tv program is hardly going to put out a damp squid on such a topic. But we’ll never know will we, what someone’s own thoughts? And if they’re indeed genuine? Just have to presuuuume. He might genuinely like robot vehicles and robot this and that.

He seems an individual who finds that the visceral value of ones life - the human priveldge of being alive - is given such value by the stark relief of feeling the gloved hand of risk on ones human shoulder. Therefore I’d be suprised him failing to take a step back fromth autonomy and question the wider sociological and ethical trajectory of autonomy and the anaesthetic effects on human self responsibility. He is a questioning individual. But who knows

I’ve not heard of Lucas di Grassi, so I’ve no exposure to his logic to misunderstand it.

I like him and no doubt he has quite a complex view on autonomous vehicles, as he is a very complex person, the type of person the media can’t really pigeon hole and he’s been very clever at keeping them at arms length, however he is very into new technology as well as having a great respect for engineering and engineers of yesteryear.

I liked the tank program and the one where he part of the Williams team and took part in a pit stop during the Spa GP.

Lucas di Grassi is the racing driver behind the Roborace concept, his idea is that they can test all the traction aids etc on the roborace cars and let racing drivers race proper cars without all the drivers aids the manufactures want to include to develop them for road cars.

I’ll have to check out the Lucas Di Grassi concept. Sounds interesting

Like I said strange logic, but he might be right, I know a lot of drivers love historic racing and it just being them and the car.
He wasn’t a bad driver, took the 2007 GP2 Championship to the last race with our driver, our guy won, mainly because of a good pit stop call to go from wets to slicks. We also did a bit of testing with him and he seemed like a nice bloke.

I think Guy Martin’s take will be interesting and most of his stuff is worth watching.

Guy loves engineering full stop , he also.embraces modern technology.
His comment a while ago that racing motorbike technology hasn’t advanced in over 20 years was an indication of where his technical interest was going .
When interviewed by Mark Webber he wanted to ask Mark about the energy recovery systems on the Porsche racers as he was building something similar at home !

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

muckles:
Like I said strange logic, but he might be right, I know a lot of drivers love historic racing and it just being them and the car.
He wasn’t a bad driver, took the 2007 GP2 Championship to the last race with our driver, our guy won, mainly because of a good pit stop call to go from wets to slicks. We also did a bit of testing with him and he seemed like a nice bloke.

I think Guy Martin’s take will be interesting and most of his stuff is worth watching.

I’ve just had a light read about the roborace. Certainly is interesting. I see he wants to create a platform to furnish manufacturers with a showcase for advances.

Just curious why his concept is a strange logic? I suspect he could if anything be a little cart before the horse. A timing issue. As a showcase to a new technology it could be argued there is a dichotomy; to make interesting viewing it would need to have an element of something, the whole concept is trying to assuage. A bit of risk. The first few autonomous crashes on the track won’t do much to pacify a public sitting on the fence. But I think that’ll be short term. The consumer conditioning machine will gather pace and the human trait of peer pressure will do the rest. When they first opened a railway tunnel it was believed you had to hold your breath.

My personal reservations on the trajectory of autonomy remain. I believe this healthy. Only a fool doesn’t do due diligence for themselves on concepts or question.

I kind of read you’re involved with motorsport. Did you work with Guy on some of that testing?

The article I read on roborace, mentioned the use of LIDAR. We used to have LIDAR on some of the stuff I did years ago. Blast from the past reading that. Forgot about lidar.

grumpyken52:
Guy loves engineering full stop , he also.embraces modern technology.
His comment a while ago that racing motorbike technology hasn’t advanced in over 20 years was an indication of where his technical interest was going .
When interviewed by Mark Webber he wanted to ask Mark about the energy recovery systems on the Porsche racers as he was building something similar at home !

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Porsche are releasing an electric car soon. First orders have been taken

Freight Dog:

muckles:
Like I said strange logic, but he might be right, I know a lot of drivers love historic racing and it just being them and the car.
He wasn’t a bad driver, took the 2007 GP2 Championship to the last race with our driver, our guy won, mainly because of a good pit stop call to go from wets to slicks. We also did a bit of testing with him and he seemed like a nice bloke.

I think Guy Martin’s take will be interesting and most of his stuff is worth watching.

I’ve just had a light read about the roborace. Certainly is interesting. I see he wants to create a platform to furnish manufacturers with a showcase for advances.

Just curious why his concept is a strange logic? I suspect he could if anything be a little cart before the horse. A timing issue. As a showcase to a new technology it could be argued there is a dichotomy; to make interesting viewing it would need to have an element of something, the whole concept is trying to assuage. A bit of risk. The first few autonomous crashes on the track won’t do much to pacify a public sitting on the fence. But I think that’ll be short term. The consumer conditioning machine will gather pace and the human trait of peer pressure will do the rest. When they first opened a railway tunnel it was believed you had to hold your breath.

Maybe a bit unfair to say strange logic, but I think if manufacturers pour millions into motorsport they’ll want to showcase their latest developments, which is why so many have dropped race series and gone to formula E.
Not really sure how Roborace is going to develop, I think the idea is you pit engineering teams against each other to try and win, that pushes the technology to the edge and probably over it at times. Maybe they hope people will be much more supportive of the team, a bit like some people support Ferrari regardless of the driver or the Australian fans rivalry between Holden and Ford.

Then you have Di Grassi’s idea races being totally down to driver ability, not sure how well that well work, even with the stuff I’ve done, so much comes down engineers looking at banks of monitors in the garage and working out strategies as things develop during the race. Far more of a team sport than you’d think, even in my humble role of getting the right tyres ready at the right time.

Freight Dog:
My personal reservations on the trajectory of autonomy remain. I believe this healthy. Only a fool doesn’t do due diligence for themselves on concepts or question.

I think it’s healthy too, the worst thing for those who are pushing for autonomous cars would be too launch them on the road too early, a few problems could set back acceptance for years.
Like I said the Roborace concept has only taken about 2 years to get to this stage, but it will be operating in a controlled environment, fully autonomous (level 5) cars have to operate in all environments and has to be as perfect as possible immediately. We will see increasing autonomy, we’ve seen some already, such as emergency braking, ACC, and some self driving functions.
[/quote]
I kind of read you’re involved with motorsport. Did you work with Guy on some of that testing?
[/quote]
No I haven’t been involved with this and I’ve never met Guy Martin, but I have worked with a few of the people on this and similar projects, my work for the last couple of years has been away from working directly for teams and more with companies working on automotive development, I’ve found the engineers very approachable and will always take time to explain things, even if I don’t understand much of it.

Freight Dog:
The article I read on roborace, mentioned the use of LIDAR. We used to have LIDAR on some of the stuff I did years ago. Blast from the past reading that. Forgot about lidar.

I think LIDAR is giving the autonomous industry one of it’s development problems, everything I’ve read says it doesn’t work so well in snow and heavy rain. Ford has announced it has a car that will work on snow covered roads, by working out where the road goes from 3d maps and information such as road signs, but this is only once the snow has stopped falling.

What did the aviation industry use it for and what has replaced it?

Freight Dog:

muckles:
Lucas di Grassi is the racing driver behind the Roborace concept, his idea is that they can test all the traction aids etc on the roborace cars and let racing drivers race proper cars without all the drivers aids the manufactures want to include to develop them for road cars.

I’ll have to check out the Lucas Di Grassi concept. Sounds interesting

Surely if it’s just about ‘testing’ of ‘driver aids’ then they don’t need autonomous vehicles or to ‘race’.They just need to set lap times either using test drivers.Or possibly remote controlled vehicles if they want to push the technology beyond the boundaries of driver safety.

The only conclusion being that they really do think that people,are interested in autonomous vehicle racing.Unbelievably motor sport seems hell bent on going from the extreme of too much emphasis on the driver to too much emphasis on the technology.

When the idea of motor racing was/should be all about pitting machine against machine and taking it for granted that the driver could drive.Driver aids obviously counting against the latter of those.While rules regarding the removal of technical innovation and getting ahead by mechanical know how took out the former.The result being a pointless procession in everything from NASCAR to F1.Then they think let’s make it autonomous EV racing that’ll fix it.

muckles:
I think LIDAR is giving the autonomous industry one of it’s development problems, everything I’ve read says it doesn’t work so well in snow and heavy rain. Ford has announced it has a car that will work on snow covered roads, by working out where the road goes from 3d maps and information such as road signs, but this is only once the snow has stopped falling.

What did the aviation industry use it for and what has replaced it?

That’s interesting stuff that, you have a good insight to what the industry is getting up to behind the scenes.

I used to work for a contractor that had different fleets for various government agencies MOD, coastguard, Environment agency plus some other bits and pieces. The EA stuff used lidar in dimensional mapping of the UK. The lidar wouldn’t work very well through foliage on trees for example. It also would trip off when you passed over cloud or heavy precipitation. I’m not sure to be honest if it’s been replaced or still used.

Well I enjoyed it even if nobody else did. Guy Martin is a great character with an unusual lifestyle. Lorry Mechanic and driver, very successful motorcycle racer and a real dare devil.
Nothing new learned from the program but interesting and enjoyable due to Guy mainly.

they might as well stick a few scalextric cars on this instead of the horses,and it would no doubt be of similar excitement and save a few quid.

Dr Damon:
Well I enjoyed it even if nobody else did. Guy Martin is a great character with an unusual lifestyle. Lorry Mechanic and driver, very successful motorcycle racer and a real dare devil.
Nothing new learned from the program but interesting and enjoyable due to Guy mainly.

But if it’s all about autonomous vehicles his driving and riding career would never have happened.How bleedin boring his life and that of others would have been standing watching electric robot bikes whining their way around the TT course using public transport or autonomous EV taxi to get there and home again.

Are you sure that you still really want to go through with this control freak zb.

Dr Damon:
Well I enjoyed it even if nobody else did. Guy Martin is a great character with an unusual lifestyle. Lorry Mechanic and driver, very successful motorcycle racer and a real dare devil.
Nothing new learned from the program but interesting and enjoyable due to Guy mainly.

That robot vehicles don’t work because they can’t adapt to changes they weren’t programmed for? That’s pretty much what people on here have been saying for a while.

Further confirmation that these things are years, decades away from being on our roads.

A very interesting programme though, was surprised at the footage from the 1970s, fascinating stuff.